The problem of "they all suck, but Ron Paul sucks the least"?

Shyatic

Platinum Member
Apr 5, 2004
2,164
34
91
Okay, so let's face the facts. Obama is a loser who didn't stand up for anything with any backbone. As Matt Damon correctly pointed out, Obama has no balls. For a country to elect a black man President, he would have been able to force through single-payer healthcare in the early days, using his political clout to do it. But he didn't, he played the perfect part of a generic politician and started setting up his favor list for re-election time. Fast forward to now, nothing much has changed, banks still need regulation that doesn't exist, and healthcare is a joke.

Enter Ron Paul. He talks intelligently about getting out of foreign wars, and values highly personal liberties. However he also values getting rid of regulation for almost everything, and allowing the liberties of gays, blacks, and any other minority left up to what are basically a bunch of backwards, racist states. "States rights" are great, except when they start intruding upon the freedoms of poeple like atheists (like me), or blacks, gays, mexicans, etc. Mostly, it's probably towards gays that this makes a bigger dent. His views on religion to say the least, are disturbing -- he still believes that the US is a "Christan nation".

While I agree with a lot of his non-interventionist policies, and his views on personal liberties and NDAA, I am squeamish about his thoughts on regulation (or lack thereof), the ability of the free market to do what is right, and I abhor the ideas he has on healthcare and things like abortion (which stem largely from his view on religion).

So where do I stand? Earlier, I made a post about not voting for a Democrat or Republican, just based on party guidelines as I don't intend to support either party as I think they are the downfall of the body politick in the US, however now I have to take it a step further and say, I don't intend to vote for a MORON. The problem with this is of course, that while every candidate may say some things I agree with from time to time, and and I look at Ron Paul as a candidate that might even follow through with what he says (as opposed to other candidates), I worry about the "stupid factor" that goes into running for this office and how we largely relegate the lowest common denominators to get into political office.

So long story short.... how come I can't vote for a candidate that isn't a liar, has balls, and isn't either crazy or an idiot? Do we really have these bottom barrell candidates in the US to choose from, and that's it? Ron Paul only seems great because the people that stand next to him are SUPER morons. It's like being the skinniest chick in a bunch of fatties. And honestly, I don't want to pick the least fat, or the least dumb. I want to pick somebody GOOD.

There's no answer for my question, I guess I'm just venting. But that's what Mondays are for :)
 

ky54

Senior member
Mar 30, 2010
532
1
76
I don't believe America can survive in the vacuum of isolationism. Closing all bases and returning all military members back to the homeland is an untenable position that would be impossible for him to achieve. Congress would never allow it and Paul has sworn to never use executive orders. What I wish his interviewers would ask him is to explain what plans he has that have a reasonable chance of being implemented.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
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There are people in both parties that could be good presidents.

Ron Paul isn't one of them. Republicans should look to some of their governors for candidates.

And Obama is a good president. No one could have done much better considering where we were. That's the real reason the good Republican candidates aren't running, they aren't stupid and know by the time of the election, Obama will be very hard to beat.

Economy is pretty strong, we are out of Iraq, more people have or will have healthcare, the rule of law is kind of being followed.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
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I don't think repubs really want to win this presidential election. They want to win the Senate control, but as bad as the economy has been, they don't want the blame if it doesn't improve if they get elected to POTUS.

I think they are saving their better candidates for 2016.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
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I don't believe America can survive in the vacuum of isolationism. Closing all bases and returning all military members back to the homeland is an untenable position that would be impossible for him to achieve. Congress would never allow it and Paul has sworn to never use executive orders. What I wish his interviewers would ask him is to explain what plans he has that have a reasonable chance of being implemented.
The first part is precisely backwards. The only way America can survive is if it gets out of other nations' affairs.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
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But, serious question, who would they be?



That's just how bad the current Repub Presidential field is . . . 48 hour Monday bad. D:

In their minds the "better candidates" would be (in no particular order)

Christy, Ryan, Daniels, Jeb Bush, Jindal, and Rubio.
 
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airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
So going into Afghanistan was a mistake?

Let's see...

We did supposedly finally get Bin Laden

We've helped to bring the most pure and abundant heroin in ages to markets around the world.

We found trillions of dollars worth of mineral deposits... We probably already knew they were there from when we created al quaeda in the 80's and trained bin laden and his pals to fight off the russians who were after those resources.

The guy we've put into power has said that he'd side w\ others against the US if we attack these other people.

We lied about why were going to invade Iraq.

We have people actively trying to get us into a war with Iran.

Chinese officials are on record saying they would defend Iran even if it meant WWIII. Iran just like Iraq has no wmd. They could make up whatever reason to goto war and in the end they would change up the story and pretend it was something else.

In the end I dont think it really matters.

There are too many things in motion and the potus really doesn't have all the say in the matters. What if Obama really wanted to bring change?

But then he got to the white house and they told him exactly what he was going to do, lest he end up like former presidents who have set out to make " change ".
 
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cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
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Enter Ron Paul. He talks intelligently about getting out of foreign wars, and values highly personal liberties. However he also values getting rid of regulation for almost everything, and allowing the liberties of gays, blacks, and any other minority left up to what are basically a bunch of backwards, racist states.

I saw no good reason to read your rant beyond this sentence :p

Would you say you highly value personal liberties, so long as you get to control other people?
 
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Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
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The first part is precisely backwards. The only way America can survive is if it gets out of other nations' affairs.

As long as we can somehow ensure that every other nation stays out of our affairs, that sounds like a workable plan. But since we live in a globally interdependent age, and the theory of isolationism came from a time when the only way to interact with other nations was by sailboat, I'd say that sounds like a pretty bad idea.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Actually Dr. Who?? has more excess baggage than he is willing to even admit to or let on to!!
 

SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
2,635
0
71
To the OP. The problem though you are making about a Libertarian president, is he wouldn't leave racists states to continue being racist. As the constitution protects against that. The constitution doesn't guarantee life, liberty, to everyone but gays or hispanics or blacks...

So, Ron Paul being a constitutionalists would be a champion of insuring any new law he does pass would be constitutional, and reviewing existing laws to make sure the adhere to the constitution.

Same thing with his views on marriage, and abortion. While his personal feelings may say one thing, his voting record shows that he wants government out of marriage completely, and if he disagrees with, or wants any part of the constitution changed, it would take an amendment, which the president has zero power over.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
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Let's see...

We did supposedly finally get Bin Laden

We've helped to bring the most pure and abundant heroin in ages to markets around the world.

We found trillions of dollars worth of mineral deposits... We probably already knew they were there from when we created al quaeda in the 80's and trained bin laden and his pals to fight off the russians who were after those resources.

The guy we've put into power has said that he'd side w\ others against the US if we attack these other people.

We lied about why were going to invade Iraq.

We have people actively trying to get us into a war with Iran.

Chinese officials are on record saying they would defend Iran even if it meant WWIII. Iran just like Iraq has no wmd. They could make up whatever reason to goto war and in the end they would change up the story and pretend it was something else.

In the end I dont think it really matters.

There are too many things in motion and the potus really doesn't have all the say in the matters. What if Obama really wanted to bring change?

But then he got to the white house and they told him exactly what he was going to do, lest he end up like former presidents who have set out to make " change ".

Indeed. Besides, Paul voted for initial Afghan action. It was the prolonged occupation/nation building which made no sense.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
To the OP. The problem though you are making about a Libertarian president, is he wouldn't leave racists states to continue being racist. As the constitution protects against that. The constitution doesn't guarantee life, liberty, to everyone but gays or hispanics or blacks...

So, Ron Paul being a constitutionalists would be a champion of insuring any new law he does pass would be constitutional, and reviewing existing laws to make sure the adhere to the constitution.

Same thing with his views on marriage, and abortion. While his personal feelings may say one thing, his voting record shows that he wants government out of marriage completely, and if he disagrees with, or wants any part of the constitution changed, it would take an amendment, which the president has zero power over.

I might agree that Ron Paul would like to do all of those things...except we don't elect dictators in this country. And the President doesn't get to "review laws" or dictate to Congress how they legislate beyond having veto power. Electing a turbo-libertarian President is only going to result in unworkable gridlock if he's not willing to first admit that he's not the entire government.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
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The constitution doesn't guarantee life, liberty, to everyone but gays or hispanics or blacks...

The Constitution does not guarentee that to anyone at all...that phrase is from the non-legally binding Declaration of Independence.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
I don't believe America can survive in the vacuum of isolationism. Closing all bases and returning all military members back to the homeland is an untenable position that would be impossible for him to achieve. Congress would never allow it and Paul has sworn to never use executive orders. What I wish his interviewers would ask him is to explain what plans he has that have a reasonable chance of being implemented.

Non-interventionist policies ≠ Isolationism

Would you say that Sweden or Switzerland as isolationist nations?

Answer: No they are not.

However it seems those who most whined about our wars are taking up the neo-con banner to push that we become the world's policemen.
 
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SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
2,635
0
71
The Constitution does not guarentee that to anyone at all...that phrase is from the non-legally binding Declaration of Independence.

Uhm say again? Both the 5th and the 14th amendment guarantee the right to life and liberty.

You notice that I didn't say "pursuit of happiness" I was hoping to avoid someone erroneously thinking I thought that was from the Constitution. But you have succeeded.
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Uhm say again? Both the 5th and the 14th amendment guarantee the right to life and liberty.

nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fifth_amendment

nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

No guarenteed right to life or liberty. It can still be taken from you.

I figured you had to be talking about the Declaration, since the Constitution does not guarentee what you claimed it does.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fifth_amendment


http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

No guarenteed right to life or liberty. It can still be taken from you.

I figured you had to be talking about the Declaration, since the Constitution does not guarentee what you claimed it does.

Dummy, "shall no be deprived" ... "without due process of law" so yes, they are guaranteed unless you do some stupid shit and the due process of law hammer has to be struck upon thy ass.
 

SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
2,635
0
71
Dummy, "shall no be deprived" ... "without due process of law" so yes, they are guaranteed unless you do some stupid shit and the due process of law hammer has to be struck upon thy ass.

LOL

Thanks. I just got back after sleeping all night, and read his reply... and was like... really? o_O