The Pope is a socialist

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Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
Yeah and America kick anyone of those developed country in terms of economy and i don't really see why you wanna change something better for worse.
Hint buddy-boy, off the top of my head, the USA ain't a leader upon any international devlopment index metric.

Brute scale is what the USA has to its relative economic power advantage. Scale does not equate to exceeding in efficiency, productivity, nor development.

The first to lose is the one who believes that they have nothing to learn.

Yet please don't let such common sense wisdom get in the way of provinicial puritan ultra-jingiostic idealism. Drag yor state into the ignorant duldrums if you choose. Wisdom is all relative. Lacking knowledge appears to make you feel all the more wise. All the power to ya... :rolleyes:
 
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woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
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Does the Pope support forced wealth redistribution or helping the poor via charity?

One is socialist. The other is not.

It's in the first paragraph of the linked article:

This weekend, the Pope released two statements calling for support of those who are hungry, likening it to the support of the right to life. Pope Benedict XVI also discussed the vast income disparities the world is seeing, and the need for investment in infrastructure, as well as the importance of not supporting capitalism just for its own sake.

Sounds pretty socialist to me.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
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Hint buddy-boy, off the top of my head, the USA ain't a leader upon any international devlopment index metric.

Brute scale is what the USA has to its relative economic power advantage. Scale does not equate to exceeding in efficiency, productivity, nor development.

The first to lose is the one who believes that they have nothing to learn.

Yet please don't let such common sense wisdom get in the way of provinicial puritan ultra-jingiostic idealism. Drag yor state into the ignorant duldrums if you choose. Wisdom is all relative. Lacking knowledge appears to make you feel all the more wise. All the power to ya... :rolleyes:

Heh well, if you wanna call someone with multiple advance degrees and have lived in multiple countries and work in an organization dealing with economic and development policies, and with family in posts like high level Fed officials as someone lack common sense and wisdom, go right ahead. I really don't need your approval.

And think about the following in your narrow and pathetic mind: 1) Sure America has the advantage of scope, but have you ever thought about managing scope is a challenge and a problem in itself? and 2) Do you know America is a heterogeneous country unlike some of the small homogeneous European countries with mixed race, new immigrants with high education/income discrepancies?

Think about those for a second and you'd see your socialist policies pushing for a mid point for the majority is gonna fail miserably and bring disastrous result unlike some countries with totally difference social/economic structure.
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
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In this forum we have written words to judge by.
Heh well, if you wanna call someone with multiple advance degrees and have lived in multiple countries and work in an organization dealing with economic and development policies...
Positioning with personal pomposity does not validate innaccurate points of absolue US exceptionalism.

... with family in posts like high level Fed officials as someone lack common sense and wisdom
Common sense and wisdom often promote humility and confidence upon the merit of ones presentation. Resorting to the self-proclaimed prominence of one's family indiactes the lack of such.....
go right ahead. I really don't need your approval.
No, I strongly disgaree. I believe that you are seeking validation for your perception of relative importance among posters in this forum.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
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In this forum we have written words to judge by.Positioning with personal pomposity does not validate innaccurate points of absolue US exceptionalism.

Common sense and wisdom often promote humility and confidence upon the merit of ones presentation. Resorting to the self-proclaimed prominence of one's family indiactes the lack of such.....No, I strongly disgaree. I believe that you are seeking validation for your perception of relative importance among posters in this forum.

Yet not one word of how socialism is gonna work in the US with such large population and diverse racial/income/educational level gap as oppose to your small homogeneous European country.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
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Damn, and i always thought that the Pope is Catholic and bears shit in the woods. Learn something new every day.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
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Yet not one word of how socialism is gonna work in the US with such large population and diverse racial/income/educational level gap as oppose to your small homogeneous European country.

Why would being more racially diverse be a hindrance? Sounds like you're saying, "We can't be as socialist as Europe because we have too many racists".
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Why would being more racially diverse be a hindrance? Sounds like you're saying, "We can't be as socialist as Europe because we have too many racists".

Well you should check statistics on how different races in the US have drastically different income level, education level, single parent rate, prison population rate....and the list goes on.

To accomplish socialist's wet dream of equality for all, those who worked hard for their education, income, career, responsibility have to come down that much more because of the differences and gap brought about by the differences in racial (and other factor) stats.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,864
7,396
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Does the Pope support forced wealth redistribution or helping the poor via charity?

One is socialist. The other is not.

This is not the point you're driving at, but please allow me to take this opportunity to expand a little on this topic.

Giving to charity as far as many of the very rich is concerned is akin to robbing the middle class and the poor and then throwing some crumbs back at them for a tax write-off. Yes, very "noble" of them. And yes, it is very much easier for the rich to do it than it is for those who have to decide whether to give to charity or feed their kids a decent meal.

Of course, there are those very rich who bequeath their whole treasure chest to charity after they pass on, possibly out of guilt, possibly because they reasoned they couldn't take it with them so what the hell, may as well put a shine on their headstone and a halo over their legacy. Some do it out to honor a loved one, etc. And when this does happen, it makes the headlines because it is a rare occurrence.

But to take the advantage that the rich can easily give to charity and beat that over the heads of those who find it financially difficult is a specious argument at the least and arrogance at it's most hideous. Yet, time and again I see this very argument tossed out in defense of the nation's "highest" class of citizens.

Thanks for giving me this opportunity to "rant" on this topic.:)

Now, as far as using the term "forced wealth distribution" is concerned, I take exception to the idea that it's invariably being used to denigrate the middle class and the poor, when in fact it's the very rich themselves who have been gleefully practicing this very act by using their ever increasing money and power to "force the distribution of wealth" into their own pockets and portfolios and away from the working class.

They've been doing this through successfully corrupting our politicians into legislating laws that allow them to literally take from the middle class and the poor via the treasury and at the workplace in all manner of insidiously greed-driven ways.

OP, sorry for taking your thread off-course a bit.:)
 
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Macamus Prime

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2011
3,108
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Religion, in it's pure form, is socialist.

I love how capitalist pigs (and their grubby little fingermen scum) invoke God any chance they get when trying to justify their actions - but, they are doing nothing more than pissing the Big Guy off.

Keep it up.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
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All you lefties are confusing "giving things voluntarily of your own will" with having a state come in and redistribute wealth by force.
 
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orbster556

Senior member
Dec 14, 2005
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Of course, there are those very rich who bequeath their whole treasure chest to charity after they pass on, possibly out of guilt, possibly because they reasoned they couldn't take it with them so what the hell, may as well put a shine on their headstone and a halo over their legacy. Some do it out to honor a loved one, etc. And when this does happen, it makes the headlines because it is a rare occurrence.

I think one of the reasons many of the hyper-wealthy donate to charity is because they believe that they can more effectively and efficiently use their money to remedy problems confronting the world than can governmental bodies. This is not only because they usually possess -- or, at the very least, believe they possess -- better skills than mere bureaucrats but is also rooted in the basic principle that an individual will take better care of their money -- whether spending it on themselves or on others through charity -- than will the government as this scenario involves some other person (government bureaucrat) handling the money of someone else (the taxpayer) for the benefit of some third-party.

But to take the advantage that the rich can easily give to charity and beat that over the heads of those who find it financially difficult is a specious argument at the least and arrogance at it's most hideous. Yet, time and again I see this very argument tossed out in defense of the nation's "highest" class of citizens.

I think it inappropriate for any person, no matter how generous, to hector or belittle another for their lack of charitable giving especially if the person on the receiving end is of limited or modest means. On the other hand, however, I do not think that it is inappropriate for individuals who support charitable giving and believe they are more efficient, on average, than government intervention at resolving or alleviating the problems faced by the most vulnerable to note that any increase in overall taxation will negatively affect charitable contributions. I think this proposition is borne out not only be economic theory but also historical experience.

They've been doing this through successfully corrupting our politicians into legislating laws that allow them to literally take from the middle class and the poor via the treasury and at the workplace in all manner of insidiously greed-driven ways.

Without any corroborating evidence this is akin to someone suggesting that the Obama Administration has passed all manner of laws permitting or facilitating the communist takeover of America. Both are hokum that are more descriptive of the mental state of the one positing such views than of actual reality.

Have the wealthy received a larger percentage of the economic gains over the past three to four decades than other segments of the population -- yes. Does this fact necessarily lead to the conclusion that the gains were the product of corruption or some other type of impropriety -- no. Moreover, such an outlook overlooks the non-salaried benefits accruing to consumers on account of globalization and rapid technological development (such development being both paid for -- through venture capital -- and then subsidized -- think early adapters -- by the rich.).

To your point, however, I agree that some of the legal and regulatory benefits accorded to certain industries or market participants are the result of improper or undue influence being exerted by the beneficiaries on regulators or the politicians. Moreover, I find this troubling as, on a fundamental level, it vitiates principles of the free enterprise system. I think the correct response, however, is to limit the role and scope of government activities in the private sector of the economy as limiting the role of government will reduce the means by which companies or others can 'rig' the game by influencing government officials to pass laws beneficial to the corporations' interests. Where regulation is necessary -- as I am not a person who would junk the entire regulatory regime of the US -- I would favor bright-line rules where little is left to the discretion of the regulators. Elimination of this sort not only will increase efficiency -- by promoting certainty -- but will also further limit the opportunity for regulators to get captured by interested third-parties (or, more precisely, regulators might still get 'captured' but it won't really matter because there discretion or power in defining the scope and executing the operation of regulations will be limited).

Finally, with respect to your closing comments regarding greed, I think your disdain for the concept is ill-placed. Can you name a single society that has not run on principles of greed (or put differently, each individual pursuing their own self-interest)? Moreover, and more importantly, no other economic system has done more to improve the quality of life for the ordinary, working person than the free enterprise system. I think it no coincidence that over all of recorded human history, the period in which the lot of the ordinary man increased most dramatically coincided, almost exactly, with the period where large parts of the world embraced free markets and, more or less, free trade. Indeed, those areas of the world in which the problem of serious poverty still exists are precisely those areas of the world that have resisted free enterprise and free trade. Finally, for those 'hard' cases of poverty that continue to exist even in country that operate under free market principles, the majority of such cases are either caused or exacerbated by government intervention and regulation. The most salient example would be the minimum wage and low-skill workers (especially minorities)(a clearer explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rls8H6MktrA#t=01m56s).
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
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Religion, in it's pure form, is socialist.

I love how capitalist pigs (and their grubby little fingermen scum) invoke God any chance they get when trying to justify their actions - but, they are doing nothing more than pissing the Big Guy off.

Keep it up.


I was hoping someone understood this . IN heart christians are pure socialist . But 99% KNOW thats not possiable in this world at this time . Some lieing cheating warlord will want to lead, that breaks the bond between christians and low socialism. As long as evil men prevail in collecting wealth with unfair advantage of being lawbreaker/lawgiver socialism is a scheme to hold back the masses but the evil grip that presently resides over our gooberment ,education and economic systems is coming to an end as the economy will collapse and what rises out of the ashes will be what so many here believe they want . A fools wish. Man is man and men bow down to glory and richies or favored statis. game over we all lost.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
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I share solidarity with neither Christians nor OWS-types, so it is of no surprise or importance to me that there is a connection between them.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Religion, in it's pure form, is socialist.

I love how capitalist pigs (and their grubby little fingermen scum) invoke God any chance they get when trying to justify their actions - but, they are doing nothing more than pissing the Big Guy off.

Keep it up.

What you f'ing commies don't understand is religion preach equality through self moderation, self motivated donation of excess and self control on greed/act of greed.

Where you lefties promote forced wealth distribution, force regulation on what people can and cannot do. You people preach democracy and freedom for the working class and totally disregard the democracy and freedom for those "haves".

Only idiot cannot see the difference.
 

Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
1
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Does the Pope support forced wealth redistribution or helping the poor via charity?

One is socialist. The other is not.

There's no force in wealth redistribution if you can renounce your citizenship and leave the country that's asking you to be a decent human being.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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There's no force in wealth redistribution if you can renounce your citizenship and leave the country that's asking you to be a decent human being.


Why is that the receiver must be the one to define what is decent?