The politics of gender-exclusive victimhood

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
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So the growing consensus among researchers is that women initiate as many incidents of domestic violence or spousal abuse as men; about 25% are initiated by females, 25% are initiated by males, and the other 50% are classified as 'mutual aggression' to which no unilateral action or provocation can be attributed. Women are almost as likely as men to hit, slap, kick, and shove their partners, and just as likely to verbally abuse them. Among relationships where only one partner is unilaterally violent (no mutual aggression), women are nearly as likely as men to be the violent partner.

Women now account for 20% ~ 25% of all domestic violence arrests and that percentage is growing, reflecting that police and domestic violence investigators are unsympathetic to the view advanced by feminists - that women who hit and abuse are merely lashing-out because they were provoked by their oppressive or dominating male partners. Isn't this the 'excuse' they villify when it is offered by male abusers? "She makes me lose my temper?" "Its her fault I lose my temper?"

In fact, when "domestic violence" is measured by 'acts', women are as violent as men. Only when one measures "domestic violence" by 'injuries' can it be said that men are more violent than women.

Obviously being larger and stronger and thus more capable of inflicting injury isn't 'more violent'. Violence is an act, the outcome has little or no bearing on who is 'more violent'.

If one person assaults another in an unprovoked act of criminal aggression, and the victim turns the tables on that aggressor, injuring the aggressor while the victim escapes injury, that doesn't then make the aggressor the 'victim' and the victim the aggressor.

So violence must be substantially defined and measures by acts, not outcomes.

It is somewhat encouraging that the politics of gender-exclusive victimhood is being exposed and discredited increasingly by female themselves. But it is clear by these accounts that men have a long row to hoe before they can hope to receive equal consideration and status as women in courts on this and other issues where men often lose big for no other reason than they're not the female in the relationship.

Discuss??
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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I've been slapped at least a dozen times never hurt me. I could kill a woman with one blow. Never hit a woman.

This is why double standards exist and should exist. Men are pansies for even reporting it.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: Zebo
I've been slapped at least a dozen times never hurt me. I could kill a woman with one blow. Never hit a woman.
Not reading very well today?
Obviously being larger and stronger and thus more capable of inflicting injury isn't 'more violent'. Violence is an act, the outcome has little or no bearing on who is 'more violent'.

If one person assaults another in an unprovoked act of criminal aggression, and the victim turns the tables on that aggressor, injuring the aggressor while the victim escapes injury, that doesn't then make the aggressor the 'victim' and the victim the aggressor.

So violence must be substantially defined and measures by acts, not outcomes.

 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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I did'nt finish my thought.

I should add if injury occurs the male should probably report it.
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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"So violence must be substantially defined and measures by acts, not outcomes"

So if I shoot you, and you die, but I shoot the next guy, and he lives, do I get murder or aggravated assault?
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
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Read "The myth of male power"
Anyways, if a woman assaults a man, he should use sufficient force to restrain her and prevent injury to himself, and if she gets injured, too bad. I don't think he should on purpose try to cause injury, but if a woman hits me first, and I push her off and she falls and breaks some bones, that's her problem.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
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So if I shoot you, and you die, but I shoot the next guy, and he lives, do I get murder or aggravated assault?
rolleye.gif


You misunderstand the issue. We're talking about two parties in conflict and determining by their actions which party is the victim and which is the aggressor, not by the outcomes. It is impossible to determine who is the aggressor or victim by outcomes. Yet, it is precisely this 'statistic', often exaggerated or inflated, which feminists offer as 'proof' that women are unilaterally victims while men are unilaterally abusers.

In your example, it is already certain who is the 'aggressor', the guy going around shooting people. Now if you toss a mutual escalation scenario in there, complicating the issue and blurring the lines between aggressor and victim, maybe we could work with it.
This is why double standards exist and should exist. Men are pansies for even reporting it.
Battered men rarely self-report abuse, precisely because they're ashamed.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Originally posted by: SuperTool
Read "The myth of male power"
Anyways, if a woman assaults a man, he should use sufficient force to restrain her and prevent injury to himself, and if she gets injured, too bad. I don't think he should on purpose try to cause injury, but if a woman hits me first, and I push her off and she falls and breaks some bones, that's her problem.

Untill YOU are charged. Happened to my brother in law. Judge told him he didn't care about particulars. He is the man and he is responsible. His fault. BTW, this was in Texas :p
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
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All this just goes to show that when politicians and demagogues raise an issue to the point of "A War on <insert media hyped problem of the moment here>" we should all be very afraid.
 

Zebo

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Jul 29, 2001
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Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Read "The myth of male power"
Anyways, if a woman assaults a man, he should use sufficient force to restrain her and prevent injury to himself, and if she gets injured, too bad. I don't think he should on purpose try to cause injury, but if a woman hits me first, and I push her off and she falls and breaks some bones, that's her problem.

Untill YOU are charged. Happened to my brother in law. Judge told him he didn't care about particulars. He is the man and he is responsible. His fault. BTW, this was in Texas :p

I always thought I'd like Texas.
 

Zebo

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Jul 29, 2001
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Can any guy really say they fear for thier life when/if attacked by a woman? I mean common I bet most guys here could get wailed on in a room full of 10 women and still find the door and walk or run away. This Texas judge is absolutly correct is his assesment. I think many men have forgotten what it means to be one.
 
Oct 16, 1999
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Originally posted by: Zebo
Can any guy really say they fear for thier life when/if attacked by a woman? I mean common I bet most guys here could get wailed on in a room full of 10 women and still find the door and walk or run away. This Texas judge is absolutly correct is his assesment. I think many men have forgotten what it means to be one.

You have a very low opinion on how capable women are. Have you ever seen a woman really go after someone? I can say without a doubt I'd rather fight a man twice my size than a woman half of it.
 

Zebo

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Jul 29, 2001
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Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Originally posted by: Zebo
Can any guy really say they fear for thier life when/if attacked by a woman? I mean common I bet most guys here could get wailed on in a room full of 10 women and still find the door and walk or run away. This Texas judge is absolutly correct is his assesment. I think many men have forgotten what it means to be one.

You have a very low opinion on how capable women are. Have you ever seen a woman really go after someone? I can say without a doubt I'd rather fight a man twice my size than a woman half of it.

rolleye.gif
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
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It is unbelievable what shame will do to a man. I have seen men emotionally and physically scarred by abusive women. I have seen women emotionally and physically scarred by men.

Women have support groups and other women to turn to. Men have almost no one.

Just remember, Zebo, you are always supposed to be the strong one. You are a man. Weakness is not allowed.
 

HombrePequeno

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: Zebo
Can any guy really say they fear for thier life when/if attacked by a woman? I mean common I bet most guys here could get wailed on in a room full of 10 women and still find the door and walk or run away. This Texas judge is absolutly correct is his assesment. I think many men have forgotten what it means to be one.

Not all women are 50 pound twigs. I know I'd be a little afraid of a 250 pound (twice my size) woman trying to kick my ass.
 

Zebo

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Jul 29, 2001
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Originally posted by: Orsorum


Just remember, Zebo, you are always supposed to be the strong one. You are a man. Weakness is not allowed.

Pretty much. And woman is modest, graceful, affectionate, civil, obliging, humane, tender beings which are pretty much perfect. I try my imperfect best to accomidate. Once you realize this life will go smooth as silk.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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Damn cut the women some slack . . . man dragged them around by the hair, used them as brood whores, doorstops, semen repositories, indentured labor, and a myriad of other insults/injuries for centuries. Despite being the source of life various religions/mythologies still hold them in disrepute (original sin was caused by the temptation of woman NOT the serpent). So what if women are taking over the university, have preferences for jobs, and now . . . can get a bye for kicking some guy's arse?! Payback is a bitch!
 
Oct 16, 1999
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Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Orsorum


Just remember, Zebo, you are always supposed to be the strong one. You are a man. Weakness is not allowed.

Pretty much. And woman is modest, graceful, affectionate, civil, obliging, humane, tender beings which are pretty much perfect. I try my imperfect best to accomidate. Once you realize this life will go smooth as silk.

You sound like you've already been slapped around by a woman. :)
 

Zebo

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Jul 29, 2001
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Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Orsorum


Just remember, Zebo, you are always supposed to be the strong one. You are a man. Weakness is not allowed.

Pretty much. And woman is modest, graceful, affectionate, civil, obliging, humane, tender beings which are pretty much perfect. I try my imperfect best to accomidate. Once you realize this life will go smooth as silk.

You sound like you've already been slapped around by a woman. :)

When I was younger I was an SOB, treated women as objects, and got what I deserved.
 

Zebo

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Jul 29, 2001
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Also, Just so you don't think I'm a man hater or somthing, I don't think a man should be arrested, tried and convicted mearly on the word of his spouse. If there are markings fine, if there are witnesses fine but I have heard stories on men being falsely accused.

A new recent scam I heard about was with this russian mail order bride thing. The women will come here and as soon as she gets here she calls the cops and claims domestic violence or whatever. The law states she can't be exported when her husband beat her. She then gets the best of both worlds, a home and citizenship without the looser dude smelling up her skirt.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
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416
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Anyways, if a woman assaults a man, he should use sufficient force to restrain her and prevent injury to himself, and if she gets injured, too bad. I don't think he should on purpose try to cause injury, but if a woman hits me first, and I push her off and she falls and breaks some bones, that's her problem.
Any bruising or red areas from your restraint will in all likelihood be deemed assaultive injuries inflicted by your aggression, while any marks or scratches she manages to inflict on you will be deemed 'defensive' wounds. She was only protecting herself. You have the right to remain silent...
And the idea is you're supposed to walk away.
You have got to be kidding me, right? Have you ever been in a relationship with a stong-willed woman who is disposed to hostile behavior? Or do you prefer the submissive push-over types who always keep the customary two paces behind the man?

Walking away from an aggravated woman with some kind of axe to grind with you will typically infuriate her. I think you meant 'run away', very quickly, then hope that all the locks haven't been changed and everything you own hasn't been piled out in the street by the time you get home.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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Originally posted by: tcsenter
Anyways, if a woman assaults a man, he should use sufficient force to restrain her and prevent injury to himself, and if she gets injured, too bad. I don't think he should on purpose try to cause injury, but if a woman hits me first, and I push her off and she falls and breaks some bones, that's her problem.
Any bruising or red areas from your restraint will in all likelihood be deemed assaultive injuries inflicted by your aggression, while any marks or scratches she manages to inflict on you will be deemed 'defensive' wounds. She was only protecting herself. You have the right to remain silent...
And the idea is you're supposed to walk away.
You have got to be kidding me, right? Have you ever been in a relationship with a stong-willed woman who is disposed to hostile behavior? Or do you prefer the submissive push-over types who always keep the customary two paces behind the man?

Walking away from an aggravated woman with some kind of axe to grind with you will typically infuriate her. I think you meant 'run away', very quickly, then hope that all the locks haven't been changed and everything you own hasn't been piled out in the street by the time you get home.

I've been slapped plenty of times. But it ends there. I leave and came back sometimes and sometimes if she was being as hostile as you describe never talk or see her again if possible. But usually it was my fault since I was tought to never to argue with a lady. These things escalate, it's useless. No woman had ever, out of the blue, cold cocked me. It was always a steady progression of two people being unresonable or my cheating. Yes run walk whatever.

My wifes hardy submissive. A tomboy should have been a cop is a better discription but she still has all those wonderful qualities that makes women special.

 

ElFenix

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Mar 20, 2000
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Originally posted by: tcsenter
Originally posted by: Zebo
I've been slapped at least a dozen times never hurt me. I could kill a woman with one blow. Never hit a woman.
Not reading very well today?
Obviously being larger and stronger and thus more capable of inflicting injury isn't 'more violent'. Violence is an act, the outcome has little or no bearing on who is 'more violent'.

If one person assaults another in an unprovoked act of criminal aggression, and the victim turns the tables on that aggressor, injuring the aggressor while the victim escapes injury, that doesn't then make the aggressor the 'victim' and the victim the aggressor.

So violence must be substantially defined and measures by acts, not outcomes.

you can't separate the act from the outcome like that. the act would be dude breaking woman's leg vs woman giving dude a bad bruise. he KNOWS he can hurt her and does
 

Zebo

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Jul 29, 2001
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Oh and as far as piling all my stuff in the dumpster...that's happend too. Things ar'nt worth going to jail for and definitly not worth go back to such a loon. I wrote them off to experiance. Helped me choose a good one or her choose me is more like it:p