The Place of Women on the Court

[GeezerMan]

Link

Justice Ginsburg in a NY Times inerviews speaks on The Place of Women on the Court. Ineteresting interview no matter what your political views are.
Page 3 has a rather honest statement on abortion:

Q: If you were a lawyer again, what would you want to accomplish as a future feminist legal agenda?
JUSTICE GINSBURG: Reproductive choice has to be straightened out. There will never be a woman of means without choice anymore. That just seems to me so obvious. The states that had changed their abortion laws before Roe [to make abortion legal] are not going to change back. So we have a policy that affects only poor women, and it can never be otherwise, and I don?t know why this hasn?t been said more often.
Q: Are you talking about the distances women have to travel because in parts of the country, abortion is essentially unavailable, because there are so few doctors and clinics that do the procedure? And also, the lack of Medicaid for abortions for poor women?
JUSTICE GINSBURG: Yes, the ruling about that surprised me. [Harris v. McRae ? in 1980 the court upheld the Hyde Amendment, which forbids the use of Medicaid for abortions.] Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don?t want to have too many of. So that Roe was going to be then set up for Medicaid funding for abortion. Which some people felt would risk coercing women into having abortions when they didn?t really want them. But when the court decided McRae, the case came out the other way. And then I realized that my perception of it had been altogether wrong.

 

[Genx87]

Yes this is a basis of argument for many pro-choice advocates. Eugenics, the poor and undesirables will be weeded out. There are many articles citing crime statistics to show Roe v Wade was an effective tool for fighting crime. Basically the idea is inner city, primarily blacks, will utilize Abortion as a means of birth control, thus killing the criminal in the womb.

This shouldnt surprise people as one of the founders of Planned Parenthood is margaret sanger. A well known eugenicist.

btw make a comment or this may be locked.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Yes this is a basis of argument for many pro-choice advocates. Eugenics, the poor and undesirables will be weeded out. There are many articles citing crime statistics to show Roe v Wade was an effective tool for fighting crime. Basically the idea is inner city, primarily blacks, will utilize Abortion as a means of birth control, thus killing the criminal in the womb.

This shouldnt surprise people as one of the founders of Planned Parenthood is margaret sanger. A well known eugenicist.

btw make a comment or this may be locked.

hehe, uh ya. :roll:

I expect that you'll never complain about Welfare Moms popping out kids again?

 

[GeezerMan]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Yes this is a basis of argument for many pro-choice advocates. Eugenics, the poor and undesirables will be weeded out. There are many articles citing crime statistics to show Roe v Wade was an effective tool for fighting crime. Basically the idea is inner city, primarily blacks, will utilize Abortion as a means of birth control, thus killing the criminal in the womb.

This shouldnt surprise people as one of the founders of Planned Parenthood is margaret sanger. A well known eugenicist.

btw make a comment or this may be locked.

My comment is on top of my original post. I hope that's good enough. Yes, Margaret Sanger was quite the racist. In her own writings she called them "socially undesirable people".

 

[n yusef]

Margaret Sanger was a racist, but so was every other white person born in 1879. I cannot deny the history of racism in the reproductive rights and greater feminist movements, but it must be noted that the current movement rejects it's bigoted past.

Genx87, would you substantiate your claim that, "[T]his is a basis of argument for many pro-choice advocates?"

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: n yusef
Margaret Sanger was a racist, but so was every other white person born in 1879. I cannot deny the history of racism in the reproductive rights and greater feminist movements, but it must be noted that the current movement rejects it's bigoted past.

Genx87, would you substantiate your claim that, "[T]his is a basis of argument for many pro-choice advocates?"

Study

This is a study often cited by many people who base their pro-choice opinion on lowering crime rates. I have seen the argument used a few times on this msgboard over my years. And on other msgboards and a few other opinion articles.

When I said many I didnt mean majority or everybody. But there is a % who do believe abortion lower crime rates. And apparently Ginsberg shares a similar opinion on the reason behind Roe vs Wade.

 

[senseamp]

Shared, not shares.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I don't understand, there is an argument that unwanted children don't disproportionally grow up to be criminals?

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: n yusef
Margaret Sanger was a racist, but so was every other white person born in 1879.

Heck of a broad brush you paint with there, sparky.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Yes this is a basis of argument for many pro-choice advocates.

If by "many" you mean "some minute fringe" then possibly. I've never met one in my life who espoused that pov as a reason for being pro-choice, and given the overwhelming majority of us citizens still feel abortion should not be banned outright, your definition of "many" needs readjustment.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: n yusef
Margaret Sanger was a racist, but so was every other white person born in 1879. I cannot deny the history of racism in the reproductive rights and greater feminist movements, but it must be noted that the current movement rejects it's bigoted past.

Genx87, would you substantiate your claim that, "[T]his is a basis of argument for many pro-choice advocates?"

Study

This is a study often cited by many people who base their pro-choice opinion on lowering crime rates. I have seen the argument used a few times on this msgboard over my years. And on other msgboards and a few other opinion articles.

When I said many I didnt mean majority or everybody. But there is a % who do believe abortion lower crime rates. And apparently Ginsberg shares a similar opinion on the reason behind Roe vs Wade.

I wouldn't call a pop economist or his supporters "pro-choice advocates." The views proclaimed in this paper, and the politics that are associated with it may be popular among supporters of reproductive rights, and many mainstream liberals, but I do not think that this position is common among pro-choice advocates. I think that this is an important distinction.

@Mursilis: I know that there were non-racist and anti-racist white people born in 1879, but I also know that they were the minority. I'm sorry if my slight exaggeration was unclear.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: n yusef
Margaret Sanger was a racist, but so was every other white person born in 1879.

thats so silly i can't believe anyone could say that with a straight face.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: n yusef
Margaret Sanger was a racist, but so was every other white person born in 1879. I cannot deny the history of racism in the reproductive rights and greater feminist movements, but it must be noted that the current movement rejects it's bigoted past.

Genx87, would you substantiate your claim that, "[T]his is a basis of argument for many pro-choice advocates?"

Study

This is a study often cited by many people who base their pro-choice opinion on lowering crime rates. I have seen the argument used a few times on this msgboard over my years. And on other msgboards and a few other opinion articles.

When I said many I didnt mean majority or everybody. But there is a % who do believe abortion lower crime rates. And apparently Ginsberg shares a similar opinion on the reason behind Roe vs Wade.

I wouldn't call a pop economist or his supporters "pro-choice advocates." The views proclaimed in this paper, and the politics that are associated with it may be popular among supporters of reproductive rights, and many mainstream liberals, but I do not think that this position is common among pro-choice advocates. I think that this is an important distinction.

@Mursilis: I know that there were non-racist and anti-racist white people born in 1879, but I also know that they were the minority. I'm sorry if my slight exaggeration was unclear.

I didnt claim the authors were pro-choice advocates, only a % of pro-choice advocates use this study for their basis of argument about the benefits of roe v wade.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: n yusef
Margaret Sanger was a racist, but so was every other white person born in 1879. I cannot deny the history of racism in the reproductive rights and greater feminist movements, but it must be noted that the current movement rejects it's bigoted past.

Genx87, would you substantiate your claim that, "[T]his is a basis of argument for many pro-choice advocates?"

Study

This is a study often cited by many people who base their pro-choice opinion on lowering crime rates. I have seen the argument used a few times on this msgboard over my years. And on other msgboards and a few other opinion articles.

When I said many I didnt mean majority or everybody. But there is a % who do believe abortion lower crime rates. And apparently Ginsberg shares a similar opinion on the reason behind Roe vs Wade.

I wouldn't call a pop economist or his supporters "pro-choice advocates." The views proclaimed in this paper, and the politics that are associated with it may be popular among supporters of reproductive rights, and many mainstream liberals, but I do not think that this position is common among pro-choice advocates. I think that this is an important distinction.

@Mursilis: I know that there were non-racist and anti-racist white people born in 1879, but I also know that they were the minority. I'm sorry if my slight exaggeration was unclear.

I didnt claim the authors were pro-choice advocates, only a % of pro-choice advocates use this study for their basis of argument about the benefits of roe v wade.

Can you point to anyone remotely mainstream who uses this or similar studies, which attribute future decreases in crime to past abortions, as an argument/benefit to being pro-choice? link to any recognized group or person who cites this study as a reason to legalize abortion?

How about a non-mainstream person or group so we can see what type of person would cite this study as argument?