The Perilous state of the American Democracy explained in lay mans terms

[BrayD]

Anytime someone calls the US a democracy, especially when they act like they know whats going on like this guy, I can't help but immediately discount everything else they have to say. How can you say you know what the problem is when you don't even have a basic understanding of what type of government we have? We are not a democracy for a democracy is the rule of the majority, we are a constitutional republic which is the rule of law. Yes, we have some democratic principles, but we have never been a democracy.

In addition to that, he talks about how Rome called itself something it was not while at the same time calling the US something it has never been which makes him seem hypocritical. Those two things make it hard for me to listen to what this guy has to say.

 

[bradley]

Anytime someone calls the US a democracy, especially when they act like they know whats going on like this guy, I can't help but immediately discount everything else they have to say. How can you say you know what the problem is when you don't even have a basic understanding of what type of government we have? We are not a democracy for a democracy is the rule of the majority, we are a constitutional republic which is the rule of law. Yes, we have some democratic principles, but we have never been a democracy.

Been there, done that. A few people here don't understand that a pure or direct democracy is equivalent to mob rule and contrary to everything Founding Father.

Just to add a little bit more cohesion, I actually like what Michael Farris has to say on the issue.

http://www.brr-va.com/america-a-constitutional-republic-or-representative-democracy/

Question: Is America a Constitutional Republic or Representative Democracy? What is the difference between the two? I always thought we were a Constitutional Republic. However, my (secular) college textbooks suggest a Representative Democracy.

Answer: Michael Farris: The answer is that it is complicated. The Founding Fathers used the term “democracy” in two ways—one general, one specific. Sometimes they would use the term “democracy” to describe all forms of self-government. In that sense, the United States is a democracy.

But, in the more specific sense, democracy means when the people directly make the law. The federal government is not a democracy in that sense. However, the term “representative democracy” is actually a synonym for a republic. This means that the legislators elected by the people make the law. A constitutional republic is where the legislators elected by the people make laws but only as authorized by the Constitution.

So the most accurate description of the federal government as designed by the Constitution is a constitutional republic.

At the state level, it is different. There is a mix of a constitutional republic and a democracy. Whenever people vote on ballot issues they are acting as a pure democracy. The rest of the time they are acting as a constitutional republic.

Now, all of this is how it is designed on paper. In actual practice, we are living in a mixed republic, oligarchy, and dictatorship. When Congress makes laws authorized by the Constitution, it is a constitutional republic. When Congress exceeds the Constitution and passes laws anyway, it is a tyrannical republic. When the Supreme Court makes laws it is an oligarchy. When Obama makes laws by executive order it is a dictatorship

I think he only mentions Obama as the current President, even though some will go all partisan on the statement.

 

[MongGrel]

The OP is awesome.....and dead on. We're already fucked. Would have been nice to get a good meal and a dozen roses before they stuck it in though. They stuck it in so carefully, we didn't even know we were being fucked until after it was over.

I'm not even going to bother reading most of it, I'm not Stewox level of conspiracy crap.

But yeah, we've been screwed awhile now.

He just does it in odd ways.

 

[MongGrel]

It's more like how are you going to resolve the situation these days.

 

[Zebo]

Great... we got everyone to unanimously agree and created a big circle jerk. Still means absolutely jack shit.

Pretty much this chump change of a tshirt here and $100 to these two ORGS can raise is NOTHING compared to having a catheter to the FED (read unlimited money) corporations have. Not only that how many really get it rather than blame whites, blame immigrants, blame Jersey Shore, blame liberals, blame conservatives to even donate? Naw man as we see in these forums ppl fall in party line like good little divided and conquered drones for more of the same.

 

[Zebo]

Anytime someone calls the US a democracy, especially when they act like they know whats going on like this guy, I can't help but immediately discount everything else they have to say. How can you say you know what the problem is when you don't even have a basic understanding of what type of government we have? We are not a democracy for a democracy is the rule of the majority, we are a constitutional republic which is the rule of law. Yes, we have some democratic principles, but we have never been a democracy.

In addition to that, he talks about how Rome called itself something it was not while at the same time calling the US something it has never been which makes him seem hypocritical. Those two things make it hard for me to listen to what this guy has to say.

This is a quibble over definitions, because a constitutional republic is a type of democracy.

You have two types of democracies - direct and republic. Since I know of no direct democracies calling USA a democracy is implied a republic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

Another thing you don't have to say constitutional - every govt has a constitution and that's a lot of typing in that word. Democracy says it all.

Now read his post you might learn something else today

 

[BrayD]

Been there, done that. A few people here don't understand that a pure or direct democracy is equivalent to mob rule and contrary to everything Founding Father.

Just to add a little bit more cohesion, I actually like what Michael Farris has to say on the issue.

http://www.brr-va.com/america-a-constitutional-republic-or-representative-democracy/

That's actually a really good piece of writing there and helps clarify a few things for me. Thank you for that.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I could not agree more. :thumbsup:

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Pretty much. It's just a question of which one personally finds more repugnant.

Excellent rant, OP. I give it five werepossums out of five. I am not however donating to any group that has marching orders for me. For one thing, I don't think that when government is this big and this powerful one actually can get the money out of politics. When government can make or break an industry - or a corporation - with tax code or environmental regulations or other laws, very few corporations or wealthy individuals are going to set aside and take their chances that others will do the same. About the most one could do is to move the money back to plausible deniability. For another, even that requires empowering the news media - not something to which I look forward.

So what makes you think that the decisions politicians would arrive at independently are any better than the decisions they make due to the "influence" of donors?

You're being deceived to think that the problem is with those who fund campaigns, rather than a government so vast and overreaching that there is value in "buying" political votes.

Ah but of course, its size of the government that's the problem, not the money for influence racket.

Sigh.

 

[boomerang]

If you support Wolf PAC you must support Convention of States. Wolf PAC cannot do what it wants to do without a Convention of States. Mayday PAC, IMO has intentions that are based in a principle that is sound, but they will not achieve their goal through that process alone and not without some groundwork being laid first. It will take too long for one and I don't feel we have the time. Secondly, there is too much corruption in D.C. to send a minority into the fray and expect them to wield enough power to complete the changes needed. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Newcomers to D.C. will be swallowed whole or worse, corrupted.

It needs to be done in steps. First an amendment to the Constitution to remove big money from the political process. And kids, that means Unions as well as Corporations and removal of the check boxes on your tax forms. Next, get people into office that support those principles.

So, Convention of States working together with Wolf Pac and then shift gears to work towards the goal of Mayday PAC. Cut off the funding and then elect long term solutions.

The long-lasting solution to our problems will mean there will no longer be a Republican or Democrat parties. They must be torn down and the pieces must be scattered far and wide such that they can never be put back together again. The hardest part will be keeping their replacements from picking up the ways of their predecessor's.

 

[Zebo]

Thats fine only people in unions these days are part of the powers that be govt employees which FDR said should never be unionized in the first place. We got 40 yr old retired firefighers in my town who will draw 8-10m in retirement over their life time. I guess thats why he thought it was a bad idea.

 

[Mursilis]

I don't think it's all that hard, but it is time-consuming. To make informed decisions about any current topic, you have to put in hours of research time. Listening to the news or reading a paper doesn't cut it. Since most people already have enough to do with work, family, social life, etc, most of us just ignore the issue altogether.

I read a few months ago that the average person watches 27 hours of TV per week. If people have that much TV time, they have time to become more informed.

 

[BoberFett]

Ah but of course, its size of the government that's the problem, not the money for influence racket.

Sigh.

Only a fool would believe that size has nothing to do with corruption.

 

[Zebo]

Size is all about corruption fraud and abuse.

You could literally cancel all these social welfare depts give every american in bottom 2 quintles $32,000 a year cash and run a 400B surplus.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=229024

There are no more poor citizens in America and you're got a surplus.

And thats not even touching on .mil.

 

[BoberFett]

Size is all about corruption fraud and abuse.

You could literally cancel all these social welfare depts give every american in bottom 2 quintles $32,000 a year cash and run a 400B surplus.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=229024

There are no more poor citizens in America and you're got a surplus.

And thats not even touching on .mil.

That's why, despite my moral indignation at providing a life for moochers, I'd be interested in studying the effects of a basic income, negative income tax or other similar proposal. While my cold, black, libertarian heart would prefer to decrease the surplus population, reality forces me to consider other options.

 

[Zebo]

But then how could VA doctors see half a patient a day and make $350,000?