• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

The people who receive the disproportionate share of government spending are not big

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
2
0
Its not false its indesputible fact. How it was taken can be debated a bit, incrementally via tax law, and lobby and Supply side shenaigans.
Show us one bill/law/tax code that takes money from the lower classes and gives it to the rich.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
A lot of those people who do pay a lower rate do so because capital gains taxes are lower. The two times it was lowered recently revenue from capital gains increased. If you are happier with a higher percentage, but less revenue, that will mean the middle class will have to make up the difference.
Higher percentage only equals less revenue within a certain point of the laffer curve, a point which we havent been at since the 80s.





 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Show us one bill/law/tax code that takes money from the lower classes and gives it to the rich.
Long term capital gains.

Its income but taxed at 15%
when someone actually working a labor job pays more than %15
Thats one simple example of redistrubution to the top.

Sure it doesnt say takes Joes labor tax rate and give it to capital gains but effectively thats exactly what it does, if soemone gets a break then someone else is making up for it. otherwise you end up where we are now

16t in debt.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
You should vote for Romney then. He will cut a lot of the loophole the rich take advantge of.
No he won't, these people bankroll his campaign. The right wants to get rid of middle income tax "loopholes" like mortgage interest deductions, they have for years.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
2
0
Long term capital gains.

Its income but taxed at 15%
when someone actually working a labor job pays more than %15
Thats one simple example of redistrubution to the top.

Sure it doesnt say takes Joes labor tax rate and give it to capital gains but effectively thats exactly what it does, if soemone gets a break then someone else is making up for it. otherwise you end up where we are now

16t in debt.
NO. A lower tax rate on Capital Gains just means people are keeping more of THEIR OWN MONEY. Nothing is taken from the lower classes. And it has been proven that a lower capital gains tax actually increased revenue so by your own logic it actually put money in the pockets of the middle class.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
0
0
I don't blame the people that legally take money from the government, but the government that use taxpayer money to bribe the people.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,271
3,804
126
Smells like the general election, when Romney is being painted as some radical tea partier who thinks government shouldn't help people. Yes folks, the man who gave you Obamacare is going to suddenly become the grinch.

You're listening to his campaign rhetoric, as if he isn't a big gov Neocon. It'd be nice for you to distance yourself from Romney. Makes him a bigger partisan target if you hide who he really is. A moderate like Bush who will betray conservatism the moment he holds office.

He is the Republican's worst enemy. A wolf in sheep's clothing. Go ahead and sing your tale of how stupid this sheep is, you wolves have already won the election no matter who voters pick.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
NO. A lower tax rate on Capital Gains just means people are keeping more of THEIR OWN MONEY. Nothing is taken from the lower classes.
Right paying %15 I am keeping more of my income generated by capital gains.
But joe the plumber making 40k in his trade job is keeping less of his.
Thats not the intent of a progressive tax system.

The money is coming from somewhere you fail to understand for the rich to pay %15 someone has to pay more to make up for it, in this case its the middle class.
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Right paying %15 I am keeping more of my income generated by capital gains.
But joe the plumber making 40k in his trade job is keeping less of his.
Thats not the intent of a progressive tax system.

The money is coming from somewhere you fail to understand for the rich to pay %15 someone has to pay more to make up for it, in this case its the middle class.
Arithmetic only works with Democrats. Republicans hate math and science.
 

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
1
0
Higher percentage only equals less revenue within a certain point of the laffer curve, a point which we havent been at since the 80s.
Also the Laffer curve has been thoroughly disproven, it was a fine theory that just not true in reality.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Also the Laffer curve has been thoroughly disproven, it was a fine theory that just not true in reality.
Its actually true within very small margins, issue is its too easy to lobby and legislate out of the desired margins.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,991
853
126
Its not false its indesputible fact. How it was taken can be debated a bit, incrementally via tax law, and lobby and Supply side shenaigans.
Is this the kind of logic that says if someone has to pay to get an ID to vote its a poll tax? Please. Which tax law takes taxes collected from the poor and gives it to the rich?
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,991
853
126
Long term capital gains.

Its income but taxed at 15%
when someone actually working a labor job pays more than %15
Thats one simple example of redistrubution to the top.

Sure it doesnt say takes Joes labor tax rate and give it to capital gains but effectively thats exactly what it does, if soemone gets a break then someone else is making up for it. otherwise you end up where we are now

16t in debt.
No its NOT effectively what it does. Thats the fuzziest logic ever. Two different types of income, with two different sets of tax law. The fact that those who prosper off of cap gains doesnt mean those who are taxed at a higher rate the govt collects and gives it back to the cap gains wealthy. It means the wealthy keep more of their money. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,684
4,354
136
People become entitled and spoiled when you repeatedly give them free things? No wai!
This. I'm so tired of old people trying to retire with all these entitlements. You aren't entitled to anything fucking liberals. Maybe you people should actually earn a retirement instead of feeling entitled to mooch off of my money to do it for you. :rolleyes:
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
This. I'm so tired of old people trying to retire with all these entitlements. You aren't entitled to anything fucking liberals. Maybe you people should actually earn a retirement instead of feeling entitled to mooch off of my money to do it for you. :rolleyes:
Well said :D
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Is this the kind of logic that says if someone has to pay to get an ID to vote its a poll tax? Please. Which tax law takes taxes collected from the poor and gives it to the rich?
No law that I know of actually says take XYZ from the poor and hand it to the rich.

What does occur is tax laws and loopholes are created via lobby to enable corporations and rich people to keep more of their income. The idea that this loss of revenue does not need to be made up or come from somewhere is laughable and silly, its does, from the middle class.

Progressive tax system was designed so wealthy payed more of a percentage of income than poor people, that is not how it is today.

Rich pay a lower percentage of income in taxes than the middle class, this is accomplished through tax law changes, to think that gap wont be made up in contradictory to reality.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
2
0
Right paying %15 I am keeping more of my income generated by capital gains.
But joe the plumber making 40k in his trade job is keeping less of his.
Thats not the intent of a progressive tax system.

The money is coming from somewhere you fail to understand for the rich to pay %15 someone has to pay more to make up for it, in this case its the middle class.
Not if that 15% actually increased revenue.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
This. I'm so tired of old people trying to retire with all these entitlements. You aren't entitled to anything fucking liberals. Maybe you people should actually earn a retirement instead of feeling entitled to mooch off of my money to do it for you. :rolleyes:
I have paid into social security my entire working life as did my employers I am entitled to that money for my retirement.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Not if that 15% actually increased revenue.
Still on laffer are ya? only within small margins does lower taxes increase revenue, small small margins, margins we are not in and have not been in for decades.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,991
853
126
No law that I know of actually says take XYZ from the poor and hand it to the rich.

What does occur is tax laws and loopholes are created via lobby to enable corporations and rich people to keep more of their income. The idea that this loss of revenue does not need to be made up or come from somewhere is laughable and silly, its does, from the middle class.

Progressive tax system was designed so wealthy payed more of a percentage of income than poor people, that is not how it is today.

Rich pay a lower percentage of income in taxes than the middle class, this is accomplished through tax law changes, to think that gap wont be made up in contradictory to reality.
Correct. But that has nothing to do with any kind of "transfer of wealth". The wealth that "the rich" have didnt used to be in the bank or investment accounts of the middle or lower class. There is no "transfer of wealth".

And you really need to clairify your comments instead of making broad sweeping ones. Obama is rich. Clinton is rich. Bush is rich. They ALL pay a higher percentage of federal income taxes than I do. As they should. The scenario youre talking about - making 95+% of your income from capital gains - affects VERY few people.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
62,343
14,563
136
Higher percentage only equals less revenue within a certain point of the laffer curve, a point which we havent been at since the 80s.
We were never there. The Laffer curve is a theoretical construct that has rarely been shown to exist in reality, certainly never in the US.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY