The Paranoid Style in American Politics

[DivideBYZero]

Much of the back and forth in P&N, and indeed in much of the US grass roots 'democracy', especially right now with regard to Health reform, is founded upon paranoia and conspiracy. P&N is pretty much an exercise in this in microcosm. Each side builds it's case, then the competing viewpoints are presented with ever increasing vigor, culminating in outright lies, paranoia and fear mongering.

It's not that I have just realised this. It's not as if YOU haven't realised this, but what I did find was an article defining the phenomenon some time ago. I was reading an article in the Economist, and they were espousing the perils of losing grip upon reality when debating key issues. It lead with the story of three pro gun owners driving 2,500 miles to DC in 1963 to protest against potential gun control in the wake of the JFK assassination. The men presented arguments against the bill claiming it was, "a further attempt by a subversive power to make us part of one world socialist government". Other claims stated it would, "help our enemies seize power", and, "create chaos". These same arguments are presented as fact in almost all threads and it was nice to put a name to the pain.

Here's a link for those who are interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...e_in_American_Politics

 

[Craig234]

I've posted this article before to explain some posters' behavior, but I think it's fairly narrow.

IMO, more useful are books along the lines of Al Gore's "The Assault on Reason" - or you can even go far back to Walter Lippman's books such as "Public Opinion".

Lippman was one of the first writers to bridge the idealism of democracy our nation was founded on from the likes of Paine and Locke with the real world of the 20th century, analyzing how the masses who have the vote, but have limited time and interest, who receive their information through mass media systems, where the powerful influence the messages, how well that did or didnot work compared to the ideal of democracy.

His message was not uplifting, and we have not solved the problems.

Looking for some solutions, he recommended the government create groups of experts to advise the elected leaders without partisanship. His model is similar to the idea of agencies such as the CIA was supposed to be, replacing the very small and ad hoc information available to elected leaders on global issues previously. Of course, as Dick Cheney can attest from his visits, it hasn't always worked that way.

I've recommended 'good media' to try to help people get informed, the way Lippman wanted them to be. I haven't seen a lot of bites, but a lot of thirsty horses.

 

[Perknose]

:thumbsup:

 

[Engineer]

I've come to realize that for some time (why I don't spend much time here any more). Thanks for the article! :thumbsup:

 

[BarrySotero]

Perfect.

Hoffsteader was a Marxist and belonged to Communist Party

"Marxist stage:

As an undergraduate, Hofstadter became involved in left-wing politics, joining the Young Communist League and meeting a radical student named Felice Swados, whom he married in 1936; she died in 1945. After graduation in 1936, Hofstadter entered the PhD program in history at Columbia University in New York, where he was most influenced by Merle Curti, who synthesized intellectual, social and political history using published sources rather than archival research.[3] Hofstadter became more involved in Marxist circles, joining the Communist Party in 1938.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hofstadter

Communists, Marxists, liberals are always accusing conservatives of being paranoid when defending communists, Marxists and liberals. Before election anyone who said Obama was a Marxist and or radical was defamed. Now look what's happened.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Perfect.

Hoffsteader was a Marxist and belonged to Communist Party

"Marxist stage:

As an undergraduate, Hofstadter became involved in left-wing politics, joining the Young Communist League and meeting a radical student named Felice Swados, whom he married in 1936; she died in 1945. After graduation in 1936, Hofstadter entered the PhD program in history at Columbia University in New York, where he was most influenced by Merle Curti, who synthesized intellectual, social and political history using published sources rather than archival research.[3] Hofstadter became more involved in Marxist circles, joining the Communist Party in 1938.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hofstadter

Communists, Marxists, liberals are always accusing conservatives of being paranoid when defending communists, Marxists and liberals. Before election anyone who said Obama was a Marxist and or radical was defamed. Now look what's happened.

This post, by this person, this early on, in this thread, makes me LOL. :laugh:

Just like a firehose, one setting (always on), one direction (full force ahead). You can't even turn it off for a second, can you? That's sad.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Perfect.

Hoffsteader was a Marxist and belonged to Communist Party

"Marxist stage:

As an undergraduate, Hofstadter became involved in left-wing politics, joining the Young Communist League and meeting a radical student named Felice Swados, whom he married in 1936; she died in 1945. After graduation in 1936, Hofstadter entered the PhD program in history at Columbia University in New York, where he was most influenced by Merle Curti, who synthesized intellectual, social and political history using published sources rather than archival research.[3] Hofstadter became more involved in Marxist circles, joining the Communist Party in 1938.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hofstadter

Communists, Marxists, liberals are always accusing conservatives of being paranoid when defending communists, Marxists and liberals. Before election anyone who said Obama was a Marxist and or radical was defamed. Now look what's happened.

This coming from a birther? Oh how rich!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Engineer
I've come to realize that for some time (why I don't spend much time here any more). Thanks for the article! :thumbsup:

Same here

The more the Quirks and the Demicraps hate each other the better.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Perfect.

Hoffsteader was a Marxist and belonged to Communist Party

"Marxist stage:

As an undergraduate, Hofstadter became involved in left-wing politics, joining the Young Communist League and meeting a radical student named Felice Swados, whom he married in 1936; she died in 1945. After graduation in 1936, Hofstadter entered the PhD program in history at Columbia University in New York, where he was most influenced by Merle Curti, who synthesized intellectual, social and political history using published sources rather than archival research.[3] Hofstadter became more involved in Marxist circles, joining the Communist Party in 1938.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hofstadter

Communists, Marxists, liberals are always accusing conservatives of being paranoid when defending communists, Marxists and liberals. Before election anyone who said Obama was a Marxist and or radical was defamed. Now look what's happened.

You are prooving the OP with this post (and I'm not being party specific here...both do it).

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Engineer
You are prooving the OP with this post (and I'm not being party specific here...both do it).

It's also rich Vs the shrinking middle class

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Engineer
I've come to realize that for some time (why I don't spend much time here any more). Thanks for the article! :thumbsup:

Same here

The more the Quirks and the Demicraps hate each other the better.

Wait......what is this? Dave, are you insulting Democrats?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Engineer
I've come to realize that for some time (why I don't spend much time here any more). Thanks for the article! :thumbsup:

Same here

The more the Quirks and the Demicraps hate each other the better.

Wait......what is this? Dave, are you insulting Democrats?

Wait, how long you been around?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Engineer
I've come to realize that for some time (why I don't spend much time here any more). Thanks for the article! :thumbsup:

Same here

The more the Quirks and the Demicraps hate each other the better.

Wait......what is this? Dave, are you insulting Democrats?

Wait, how long you been around?

Long enough to know that you can't seem to make up your mind on anything.

 

[BarrySotero]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Perfect.

Hoffsteader was a Marxist and belonged to Communist Party

"Marxist stage:

As an undergraduate, Hofstadter became involved in left-wing politics, joining the Young Communist League and meeting a radical student named Felice Swados, whom he married in 1936; she died in 1945. After graduation in 1936, Hofstadter entered the PhD program in history at Columbia University in New York, where he was most influenced by Merle Curti, who synthesized intellectual, social and political history using published sources rather than archival research.[3] Hofstadter became more involved in Marxist circles, joining the Communist Party in 1938.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hofstadter

Communists, Marxists, liberals are always accusing conservatives of being paranoid when defending communists, Marxists and liberals. Before election anyone who said Obama was a Marxist and or radical was defamed. Now look what's happened.

This post, by this person, this early on, in this thread, makes me LOL. :laugh:

Just like a firehose, one setting (always on), one direction (full force ahead). You can't even turn it off for a second, can you? That's sad.

Alas truth has it's own inertia. Seeing someone decry paranoia in US politics by using an article from the early 60's from a Marxist and communist party member was just too rich.

 

[BarrySotero]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Perfect.

Hoffsteader was a Marxist and belonged to Communist Party

"Marxist stage:

As an undergraduate, Hofstadter became involved in left-wing politics, joining the Young Communist League and meeting a radical student named Felice Swados, whom he married in 1936; she died in 1945. After graduation in 1936, Hofstadter entered the PhD program in history at Columbia University in New York, where he was most influenced by Merle Curti, who synthesized intellectual, social and political history using published sources rather than archival research.[3] Hofstadter became more involved in Marxist circles, joining the Communist Party in 1938.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hofstadter

Communists, Marxists, liberals are always accusing conservatives of being paranoid when defending communists, Marxists and liberals. Before election anyone who said Obama was a Marxist and or radical was defamed. Now look what's happened.

This coming from a birther? Oh how rich!

I don't know where Obama was born. What I do know is he has been with radicals since a kid, and sat in racial black lib (Marxist) church for many years and is now tyrannizing bankers, insurers, protesters etc while nuking the economy and forcing nation busting political agendas like stealth-care and cap and charade - while pretending they are good for us. A person would have to be psychotic to deny whats right in their face.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Perfect.

Hoffsteader was a Marxist and belonged to Communist Party

"Marxist stage:

As an undergraduate, Hofstadter became involved in left-wing politics, joining the Young Communist League and meeting a radical student named Felice Swados, whom he married in 1936; she died in 1945. After graduation in 1936, Hofstadter entered the PhD program in history at Columbia University in New York, where he was most influenced by Merle Curti, who synthesized intellectual, social and political history using published sources rather than archival research.[3] Hofstadter became more involved in Marxist circles, joining the Communist Party in 1938.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Hofstadter

Communists, Marxists, liberals are always accusing conservatives of being paranoid when defending communists, Marxists and liberals. Before election anyone who said Obama was a Marxist and or radical was defamed. Now look what's happened.

This coming from a birther? Oh how rich!

I don't know where Obama was born. What I do know is he has been with radicals since a kid, and sat in racial black lib (Marxist) church for many years and is now tyrannizing bankers, insurers, protesters etc while nuking the economy and forcing nation busting political agendas like stealth-care and cap and charade - while pretending they are good for us. A person would have to be psychotic to deny whats right in their face.

It would really, really SUCK to be you and live in your angry and idiotically twisted little world, Barry.

It most certainly SUCKS to have to share these forums with you.

 

[Vic]

Ignorance breeds fear, and in politics those who are most passionate in their views are usually the most ignorant.
Or in the words of Stevie Wonder, "When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer."

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Seeing someone decry paranoia in US politics by using an article from the early 60's from a Marxist and communist party member was just too rich.

Yep. Unfortunately the libs/socialists here don't seem to understand that and will just lap up his writings.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Seeing someone decry paranoia in US politics by using an article from the early 60's from a Marxist and communist party member was just too rich.

Yep. Unfortunately the libs/socialists here don't seem to understand that and will just lap up his writings.

That's because those evil libuhrals hate you and your freedoms and are out to destroy America!! TERRAH!!

The irony in this thread is hilarious. Tragic, but hilarious.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Seeing someone decry paranoia in US politics by using an article from the early 60's from a Marxist and communist party member was just too rich.

Yep. Unfortunately the libs/socialists here don't seem to understand that and will just lap up his writings.

That's because those evil libuhrals hate you and your freedoms and are out to destroy America!! TERRAH!!

The irony in this thread is hilarious. Tragic, but hilarious.

Yep, ironic indeed.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Seeing someone decry paranoia in US politics by using an article from the early 60's from a Marxist and communist party member was just too rich.

Yep. Unfortunately the libs/socialists here don't seem to understand that and will just lap up his writings.

That's because those evil libuhrals hate you and your freedoms and are out to destroy America!! TERRAH!!

The irony in this thread is hilarious. Tragic, but hilarious.

Yep, ironic indeed.

I'm talking about you and Barry. :roll:

Here's a question for you: if you really do believe in freedom and liberty, as you claim, then why don't you allow others their right to freedom of belief? Why is it that you automatically and without any consideration condemn another person's ideas and arguments purely because of their supposed ideological affiliation? And why is it that you feel self-righteous in doing so? Oh, I know what it is... it's because you're a hypocrite, and you really don't believe in freedom and liberty. What you do believe is 'Us vs Them' and nothing else. And pal, that's as authoritarian and psychopathic a belief system as any that exists on this world.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Seeing someone decry paranoia in US politics by using an article from the early 60's from a Marxist and communist party member was just too rich.

Yep. Unfortunately the libs/socialists here don't seem to understand that and will just lap up his writings.

That's because those evil libuhrals hate you and your freedoms and are out to destroy America!! TERRAH!!

The irony in this thread is hilarious. Tragic, but hilarious.

Yep, ironic indeed.

I'm talking about you and Barry. :roll:

Here's a question for you: if you really do believe in freedom and liberty, as you claim, then why don't you allow others their right to freedom of belief? Why is it that you automatically and without any consideration condemn another person's ideas and arguments purely because of their supposed ideological affiliation? And why is it that you feel self-righteous in doing so? Oh, I know what it is... it's because you're a hypocrite, and you really don't believe in freedom and liberty. What you do believe is 'Us vs Them' and nothing else. And pal, that's as authoritarian and psychopathic a belief system as any that exists on this world.

And I'm talking about the others who can't see the irony of using a commie's writing about paranoia in American politics. Is that lost on you too?

your question is stupid but I'll humor you. Yes, they can have their beliefs and I didn't "condemn" them - I was merely agreeing with the noted irony. So do you want to post any more of you asinine ASSumptions about the motives of my reply?

 

[Vic]

Oh boy, Cad is resorting to the usual ASSumption bit again... :roll:

Regardless of what I think about communism (which isn't good), it is simply a fact that communists had every reason to be paranoid during the '50s and 60s, a time when it was effectively illegal to be a communist in America. A policy which BTW was supposed to be to protect our freedoms. Hence, irony.

 

[Vic]

The night is black, without a moon.
The air is thick and still.
The vigilantes gather on
The lonely torchlit hill.

Features distorted in the flickering light,
Faces are twisted and grotesque.
Silent and stern in the sweltering night,
The mob moves like demons possessed.
Quiet in conscience, calm in their right,
Confident their ways are best.

The righteous rise
With burning eyes
Of hatred and ill-will.
Madmen fed on fear and lies
To beat and burn and kill.

They say there are strangers who threaten us,
Our immigrants and infidels.
They say there is strangeness too dangerous
In our theaters and bookstore shelves,
That those who know what's best for us
Must rise and save us from ourselves.

Quick to judge,
Quick to anger,
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice
And fear walk hand in hand.

This was written by an Objectivist, and he wasn't talking about liberals and commies.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Vic
Oh boy, Cad is resorting to the usual ASSumption bit again... :roll:

Regardless of what I think about communism (which isn't good), it is simply a fact that communists had every reason to be paranoid during the '50s and 60s, a time when it was effectively illegal to be a communist in America. A policy which BTW was supposed to be to protect our freedoms. Hence, irony.

I was noting your assumptions - do you not realize what you posted was an asinine ASSumption? Probably not - you seem to be worked up today.

Yes, they had reason to be paranoid. I didn't say they didn't. If you actually read what I posted, it was in response to barry noting the irony. But project/assume more if you wish...