The other side of the Katrina story

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
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Link

In the past four years, the Orleans Levee Board has built up its arsenal. The additional defenses are so critical that Levee Commissioners marched into Congress and brought back almost $60 million to help pay for protection," the pamphlet declared. "The most ambitious flood-fighting plan in generations was drafted. An unprecedented $140 million building campaign launched 41 projects.

But less than a year later, that same levee board was denied the authority to refinance its debts. Legislative Auditor Dan Kyle "repeatedly faulted the Levee Board for the way it awards contracts, spends money and ignores public bid laws," according to the Times-Picayune. The newspaper quoted Kyle as saying that the board was near bankruptcy and should not be allowed to refinance any bonds, or issue new ones, until it submitted an acceptable plan to achieve solvency.

By 1998, Louisiana's state government had a $2 billion construction budget, but less than one tenth of one percent of that -- $1.98 million -- was dedicated to levee improvements in the New Orleans area. State appropriators were able to find $22 million that year to renovate a new home for the Louisiana Supreme Court and $35 million for one phase of an expansion to the New Orleans convention center.

Earlier this year, the levee board did complete a $2.5 million restoration project. After months of delays, officials rolled away fencing to reveal the restored 1962 Mardi Gras fountain in a four-acre park featuring a new 600-foot plaza between famous Lakeshore Drive and the sea wall.

Apparently money was available, including a 65% guaranteed match of funds for what the Levee Board spends, but that money wasn't even used.

They were apparently too busy giving out no-bid contracts and building Mardi Gras statues I suppose.

Link

Mayor Nagin pleads to have Greyhound Buses come pick up all of the stranded people.

He stated, "'m like, 'You have got to be kidding me.' This is a national disaster, get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses to New Orleans. This is a major, major, major deal."

Maybe they should have used those buses rather than simply let them flood? Perhaps evacuating people on school buses earlier is better than letting them be starved, dehydrated, murdered, or raped while at the Superdome or Convention Center?

Link

This article brings up very many valid points including the fact that St. Charles, St Bernard, Plaquemines, and Jefferson Parishes which are majority white have had very little help compared to Orleans Parish and they were all hit just as hard and some even harder.

I can tell you first hand that this is fact after talking with 4 of the friends I went to college with and their homes and still completely underwater to this day and it is barely even being discussed by the media.

Those 4 parishes are majority white, I guess Bush hates white people.

Wanna know why people weren't being rescued and helped? They had to secure the area before they could even go in to help people.

"New Orleans has one of the highest murder rates in the country. By mid-August of this year, 192 murders had been committed in New Orleans, "nearly 10 times the national average," reported the Associated Press. Gunfire is so common in New Orleans -- and criminals so fierce -- that when university researchers conducted an experiment last year in which they had cops fire 700 blank rounds in a neighborhood on a random afternoon "no one called to report the gunfire," reported AP."

Those figures are with a police force actively patrolling the streets. Imagine how much worse it was during a catastrophe like this one when there are not anywhere near enough cops to go around.

If you truly want to blame someone for all of the flooding, blame Congress from 1927 and the Army Corp of Engineers.

The problem, in a nutshell, is this: the Louisiana coast, its protective fringe of barrier islands and coastal marshlands, is disappearing. Over the last 75 years, 1.9 million acres have vanished. Every year, another 25 square miles, an area roughly the size of Manhattan, sinks quietly beneath the waves. In some places, the coastline has receded 15 miles from where it was in the 1920's.

The soil in the delta compacts and sinks naturally. Historically, however, the Mississippi replenished the loss with sediment gathered from its many tributaries and then deposited like clockwork in the delta with the spring floods. Or so it did until 1927, when Congress ordered the Army Corps of Engineers to find ways to control the floods so as to make the river safe for farming, homes and commerce.

As it would later do in the Everglades (with equally disastrous results for the Florida ecosystem), the Corps then proceeded to construct a network of dams, levees and canals throughout the river basin. The upstream dams reduced the river's sediment load well below historical levels; the sediment that remained, while considerable, was then routed away from the Louisiana coast by a system of levees and navigation channels. The effect of all these engineering changes was to hurry the river along and, at its mouth, propel its contents deep into the Gulf of Mexico, as if shot from a cannon, bypassing the coastal marshes and barrier islands that most needed its nourishment.

Link

Link


So basically, as I have stated in so many earlier threads, this problem is alot deeper than most people realize.

If we hadn't tried to put the Mississippi River where we wanted to and simply let mother nature do her own thing, we wouldn't have had anywhere near as much flooding. The outer marshes and barrier islands which no longer exist because of man's intereference with the river is what would help to weaken a storm before it reached New Orleans.

If you want to blame someone environmentally blame the 1920's Congress and the Army Corp of Engineers who ruined Louisiana's coast and Florida's everglades by trying to play God. The eroding coast has a HUGE impact on the area even before hurricanes are considered. The seafood industry is a multi-billion dollar industry and if something isn't done about coastal erosion soon that business is going to take serious hits.

Greyhound buses should have been brought in so they could be shot at and stolen, but the local school buses should have been removing people before the storm hit rather than sticking them in the Superdome with no food and no medical supplies. I knew the storm was coming on Saturday morning. New Orleans probably knew before me which means they had 2 days to evacuate people rather than stick them in the dome.

The Army Corp of Engineers which Bush supposedly hasn't funded still hasn't even spent alot of funding that the government guaranteed it and is being audited constantly for corruption, poor business decisions, and poor business practices.


I've been compiling articles that I have read dealing with the problems and the aftermath. I thought I'd share some links and thoughts that you haven't considered yet.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!

CNSNews? Brent Bozell's startup? BWA HA HA HA HA!!

The rest is all op/ed articles.



Bush league attempt.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: conjur
BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!

CNSNews? Brent Bozell's startup? BWA HA HA HA HA!!

The rest is all op/ed articles.



Bush league attempt.
LOL. This response comes from the guy who consistently links to TheRawStory.

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: conjur
BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!

CNSNews? Brent Bozell's startup? BWA HA HA HA HA!!

The rest is all op/ed articles.



Bush league attempt.
LOL. This response comes from the guy who consistently links to TheRawStory.

and dailykos lmao
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
btw, Senator Landrieu has made it very clear exactly why it's all Bush's fault. Besides saying "I'm not going to level criticism at local and state officials." she says:
Mayor Nagin and most mayors in this country have a hard time getting their people to work on a sunny day, less [sic] alone getting them out of the city in front of a hurricane. It's because this administration and administrations before them do not understand the difficulties that mayors, whether they're in Orlando, Miami, or New Orleans face.
See it's not Nagin's fault at all. He's just misunderstood, and of course his workers are lazy. :roll:

Senator Landrieu should just shut up. Either that or she should get a bigger shovel so she can dig that hole even deeper for herself.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: conjur
BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!

CNSNews? Brent Bozell's startup? BWA HA HA HA HA!!

The rest is all op/ed articles.



Bush league attempt.
LOL. This response comes from the guy who consistently links to TheRawStory.
Which has been wrong how many times?

Zero.

Thank you.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,939
34,094
136
I think that there is plenty of incompetence all around and that incompetence at the local or state level doesn't excuse incompetence at the federal level. There is key difference among these at least for the majority of folks posting here. I don't get to vote for the mayor of New Orleans and I don't get to vote for the govenor of Louisiana but I do get to vote for President and for Congress critters so those are the folks I get to hold responsible. Why did the President nonimate and the Senate rubberstamp Brown for the FEMA post? Why did my Senators vote to confirm? Why did my Congress critters vote to merge FEMA into DHS in a kneejerk reaction?

Why has the President and Congress gutted federal emergency response while at the same time claiming they were beefing it up? A couple non-Katrina examples: Emergency responders across the country have been forced to switch to narrow band radios so that the spectrum they previously used can be auctioned off to the highest bidder. This effort has cost billions to local/state/federal government entities who've had to replace radio systems. The new narrow band systems are buggy and have reduced coverage areas.

A second example: The incident management teams that manage wildland firefighting efforts as well as major disaster response rely on temporary workers to fill key posts. These workers are usually highly qualified retirees from various emergency services. For the last two years the Bush administration has attempted to cut the pay of these folks by up to 30%. The message from the Bush administration was very clear - "We don't respect you and we don't need you". In response to these threatened paycuts many of these workers have turned down these jobs and have taken decades of experience with them.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: conjur
BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!

CNSNews? Brent Bozell's startup? BWA HA HA HA HA!!

The rest is all op/ed articles.



Bush league attempt.
LOL. This response comes from the guy who consistently links to TheRawStory.
Which has been wrong how many times?

Zero.

Thank you.
Wrong? LOL. They are primarily a clearing house for links to news articles from other sites, when those articles agree with their liberal agenda, all while they pimp ads for anti-Bush t-shirts. If I claimed an article of theirs was "wrong" you'd respond with "It's not their article, it's from..."

 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
They interview people quite a bit and have their own commentary sometimes. They much more than what Drudge does.

But, I don't try to pawn off op/ed articles as fact as the OP tried to do. And the CNSnews.com? Give me a break! The only person more conservative than Bozell would be someone like James Dobson or Pat Robertson!
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
I find it funny that they think that making the same thread over and over again will magically make their claims true.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I find it funny that they think that making the same thread over and over again will magically make their claims true.
I find it funny that nobody is actually countering any of the information provided in the articles. If CNS is so often and blatantly wrong, it should be easy to do.
 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
They interview people quite a bit and have their own commentary sometimes. They much more than what Drudge does.

But, I don't try to pawn off op/ed articles as fact as the OP tried to do. And the CNSnews.com? Give me a break! The only person more conservative than Bozell would be someone like James Dobson or Pat Robertson!

So, what are you disputing?

Are you disputing the fact that:

1) Coastal erosion made the hurricane much worse than it would have been and that is the fault of the Army Corp of Engineers and the Congress in the 1920's?

2) That school buses did indeed flood because of lack of planning yet the mayor was calling for buses to get people out?

3) That the Army Corp of Engineers hasn't spent the money it currently has, nor has it spent money wisely leading to them getting audits, and yet somehow this is Bush's fault for not giving them enough money?


Which of those facts are you saying are untrue?

If you are willing to dispute any of those 3 facts then please do so. There are many many more articles on each of those subjects if you must have them.

Well?:confused:
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: ironwing
I think that there is plenty of incompetence all around and that incompetence at the local or state level doesn't excuse incompetence at the federal level. There is key difference among these at least for the majority of folks posting here. I don't get to vote for the mayor of New Orleans and I don't get to vote for the govenor of Louisiana but I do get to vote for President and for Congress critters so those are the folks I get to hold responsible. Why did the President nonimate and the Senate rubberstamp Brown for the FEMA post? Why did my Senators vote to confirm? Why did my Congress critters vote to merge FEMA into DHS in a kneejerk reaction?

Why has the President and Congress gutted federal emergency response while at the same time claiming they were beefing it up? A couple non-Katrina examples: Emergency responders across the country have been forced to switch to narrow band radios so that the spectrum they previously used can be auctioned off to the highest bidder. This effort has cost billions to local/state/federal government entities who've had to replace radio systems. The new narrow band systems are buggy and have reduced coverage areas.

A second example: The incident management teams that manage wildland firefighting efforts as well as major disaster response rely on temporary workers to fill key posts. These workers are usually highly qualified retirees from various emergency services. For the last two years the Bush administration has attempted to cut the pay of these folks by up to 30%. The message from the Bush administration was very clear - "We don't respect you and we don't need you". In response to these threatened paycuts many of these workers have turned down these jobs and have taken decades of experience with them.

Almost exactly what I've been thinking.

As for this thread, it's no different from the 80 zillion threads about this topic already. It highlights some facts, while totally ignoring others, in an attempt to spin the disaster a particular way. Wow, how special. Personally I think we've sunk to the intellectual level of AMD vs Intel (anyone remember those days on AT?) with all the blaming going on with Katrina.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
Yeah, nice try Cons, but Bush screwed the pooch on this when he hired his horse trader friend to run FEMA and then slashed and slashed and slashed the budget. You go on though. Yer fun to watch.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: conjur
BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!

CNSNews? Brent Bozell's startup? BWA HA HA HA HA!!

The rest is all op/ed articles.



Bush league attempt.
LOL. This response comes from the guy who consistently links to TheRawStory.

and dailykos lmao

:laugh:
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: ironwing
I think that there is plenty of incompetence all around and that incompetence at the local or state level doesn't excuse incompetence at the federal level. There is key difference among these at least for the majority of folks posting here. I don't get to vote for the mayor of New Orleans and I don't get to vote for the govenor of Louisiana but I do get to vote for President and for Congress critters so those are the folks I get to hold responsible. Why did the President nonimate and the Senate rubberstamp Brown for the FEMA post? Why did my Senators vote to confirm? Why did my Congress critters vote to merge FEMA into DHS in a kneejerk reaction?

Why has the President and Congress gutted federal emergency response while at the same time claiming they were beefing it up? A couple non-Katrina examples: Emergency responders across the country have been forced to switch to narrow band radios so that the spectrum they previously used can be auctioned off to the highest bidder. This effort has cost billions to local/state/federal government entities who've had to replace radio systems. The new narrow band systems are buggy and have reduced coverage areas.

A second example: The incident management teams that manage wildland firefighting efforts as well as major disaster response rely on temporary workers to fill key posts. These workers are usually highly qualified retirees from various emergency services. For the last two years the Bush administration has attempted to cut the pay of these folks by up to 30%. The message from the Bush administration was very clear - "We don't respect you and we don't need you". In response to these threatened paycuts many of these workers have turned down these jobs and have taken decades of experience with them.

Almost exactly what I've been thinking.

As for this thread, it's no different from the 80 zillion threads about this topic already. It highlights some facts, while totally ignoring others, in an attempt to spin the disaster a particular way. Wow, how special. Personally I think we've sunk to the intellectual level of AMD vs Intel (anyone remember those days on AT?) with all the blaming going on with Katrina.

Good points both, and a good analogy.

My cache is bigger then your cache.

Oh yeah, well my gigahertz is faster then your gigahertz.

This review says mines better.

Oh yeah, well that guys an AMD whore, this review is the one that counts.

BUHAHAHAHA, that idiot???

:laugh:
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Yeah, nice try Cons, but Bush screwed the pooch on this when he hired his horse trader friend to run FEMA and then slashed and slashed and slashed the budget. You go on though. Yer fun to watch.
More irony from the RBH crew. It's hilarious.
 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
I think that there is plenty of incompetence all around and that incompetence at the local or state level doesn't excuse incompetence at the federal level. There is key difference among these at least for the majority of folks posting here. I don't get to vote for the mayor of New Orleans and I don't get to vote for the govenor of Louisiana but I do get to vote for President and for Congress critters so those are the folks I get to hold responsible. Why did the President nonimate and the Senate rubberstamp Brown for the FEMA post? Why did my Senators vote to confirm? Why did my Congress critters vote to merge FEMA into DHS in a kneejerk reaction?

I would agree, however I'm looking at it from another perspective.

I'm looking at it from the perspective of how can so many people (namely the media, pundits, wannabe pundits on P&N, and others) jump to blame the federal government, FEMA, or Bush for this catastrophe when the local and state government hasn't done anything about the problem either?

Perhaps its just flawed thinking on my part, and I live in New Orleans, to think that New Orleans should be the first line of defense when dealing with problems in New Orleans. I dunno maybe I'm crazy....

Shouldn't California be on top of dealing with earthquake problems or should they simply wait for the federal government to come and hold their hand and make sure these issues are taken care of for them? I know New York has created their own FBI type of organization since 9-11 to handle their security issues and guess what, no terrorist attacks in New York lately. It was relying on the federal government that caused 9-11 to happen in the first place.

I simply don't get it, maybe someone can enlighten me.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Deudalus
Originally posted by: conjur
They interview people quite a bit and have their own commentary sometimes. They much more than what Drudge does.

But, I don't try to pawn off op/ed articles as fact as the OP tried to do. And the CNSnews.com? Give me a break! The only person more conservative than Bozell would be someone like James Dobson or Pat Robertson!
So, what are you disputing?

Are you disputing the fact that:

1) Coastal erosion made the hurricane much worse than it would have been and that is the fault of the Army Corp of Engineers and the Congress in the 1920's?

2) That school buses did indeed flood because of lack of planning yet the mayor was calling for buses to get people out?

3) That the Army Corp of Engineers hasn't spent the money it currently has, nor has it spent money wisely leading to them getting audits, and yet somehow this is Bush's fault for not giving them enough money?


Which of those facts are you saying are untrue?

If you are willing to dispute any of those 3 facts then please do so. There are many many more articles on each of those subjects if you must have them.

Well?:confused:
Unless you post some facts from reliable sources stating such, your thread is worthless.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!

CNSNews? Brent Bozell's startup? BWA HA HA HA HA!!

The rest is all op/ed articles.



Bush league attempt.

You just don't get it do you? You have been blinded for so long, you may never see.

 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: Proletariat
CNSNEWS != Valid source.

This thread = garbage.

Garbage = anything that doesnb't pay off the Democratic party. The lesson for me was when Clinton spent the weekend with Jobs and the anti-trust suit was initiated against Microsoft a week later. Gates didn't contribute to any party in those days. He has learned his lesson and now contributes token amounts. Your guys are dirty, man!

 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
No, garbage is CNSNews.com. Worse than Spewsmax. You honestly think anyone up here is going to take serious anything Brent Bozell has to say?


puh-leeze.