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The older I get the less I care about this whole religion thing

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Joemonkey said:
then why can't they let the people vote on it?
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Dude, do you know how it works? Find a champion to take up the cause. That's the first step. Get enough behind him to sway the senate and house to bring it into reality and then you can get to vote on it.
 
alkemyst said:
not believing in God <> being 'religious'.

There is a lot to be said about one of the pillars this nation was built on.

Anyway for every Atheist out there, there is one that cries for God the day they are dying usually.

It's like the new hip thing though to be Agnostic/Atheist...
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pillars the nation was built on? sigh...

I used to work with a guy that was super religious, always spouting off about the grace of god and how nothing was possible without him, and me being a strong agnostic, just kinda rolled my eyes at him and let him keep spouting. One day he asked me what I learned at church over the weekend and I told him I didn't attend church and didn't really believe in god either

he went off on me, about how I was living in sin, and how could I possibly live this way, etc. I told him I have my own morals, I don't need to "be good to get into heaven" and that being "good" was its own reward. He went on to say that if there was no god there would be nothing stopping him from running around and raping and killing people. I said "please keep believing in god then, don't let my lack of belief threaten your beliefs in any way"

now, how many of those folks are out there? how many "crazy religious" are out there wanting to rape and kill people but the only thing stopping them is their religion?!
 
moshquerade said:
I'm being nothing but logical and truthful. I have disputed all of your claims with facts.
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The only thing you've disputed with any modicum of facts is that stem cell research isn't illegal (although that's a half truth at best as there are manners of stem cell research that is illegal), and the rest you just gave your opinion. Well, I guess you saying gay marriage is legal some places, but again that's a half truth at best.

moshquerade said:
That's all you can come up with for why they don't get together? 😛
because they are smart and independent? i think the smart ones get together and strive for changes they believe in. that's being smart.
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Your reasoning here is every bit as flawed as his is.
 
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Joemonkey said:
I would love the vote to be

"Should we destroy fetuses such that we may all be able to extend our lives and combat disease in a manner we've never had available to us before?"

Yes
No
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stem cell research is ongoing. it's never been stopped, and yes, i am talking about embryonic stem cells too. don't underestimate the of value of research with adult stem cells either.
 
darkswordsman17 said:
The only thing you've disputed with any modicum of facts is that stem cell research isn't illegal (although that's a half truth at best as there are manners of stem cell research that is illegal), and the rest you just gave your opinion. Well, I guess you saying gay marriage is legal some places, but again that's a half truth at best.
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How is that a half truth? Please if you are going to argue my position you need to do it with more effort than that.
 
Joemonkey said:
because this nation is ran on public opinion, and most people are ignorant, so ignorance rules?
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no, making statements on a vote like you did. Even if one wanted to help, as soon as you put up something like that you lose all credibility.

Like I mentioned above that's the way this kind of thing goes a lot of times outside the religious circles.

"Yeah bro, the babies are going to die anyway....lolz, lets suck out their cells and make us superhumans"
 
alkemyst said:
no, making statements on a vote like you did. Even if one wanted to help, as soon as you put up something like that you lose all credibility.

Like I mentioned above that's the way this kind of thing goes a lot of times outside the religious circles.

"Yeah bro, the babies are going to die anyway....lolz, lets suck out their cells and make us superhumans"
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how awesome would that be though? when the uninformed vote everyone loses. How should the vote go? "Should we use embryonic stem cells for research?"

if all the person had heard was their church saying "say no to stem cell research!" and that was ALL they heard, then they'd do the good sheep thing and vote no

if they did research and found out what may be possible from the research yet it went against their religion, then they'd PROBABLY vote no

if they weren't religious and didn't worry about some "soul" nonsense, they'd say "hells yeah, kill them babiez to make me able to fly!"
 
The reasoning in this thread is getting downright mushy, slushy, and weak. I propose that all future discussion be required to rhyme.
 
Joemonkey said:
that was added via the Knights of Columbus in 1951?

I was really hoping your "pillar" was freedom of religion...
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Well the constitution has really no reference to God, so a lot say "hey it's all bullshit".

However, the 'Founding Fathers" were all pretty religious some actually being clergy, sons of clergy and all were active in their churches.

I am not a very religious person like I have said, but I am not going to get all emo when they can get together and set laws that I myself really did nothing to stop.
 
moshquerade said:
How is that a half truth? Please if you are going to argue my position you need to do it with more effort than that.
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I'm not arguing your position...so...what? Really, what kind of logic is that? Not only that, but you're gonna have to be more specific since I kinda posted two things. I guess I'm supposed to assume you meant both?

The first is a half truth, because, as I pointed out, is not entirely legal. There are aspects that have been banned in various places. So saying its not been made illegal is not really entirely truthful. The second is a half-truth because in the US they are not federally recognized marriages so they are not given full legal respect even in the states where they are legal.
 
I've said it before, but I'll say it again.

It's no secret that I'm outright hostile to the poor reasoning people often use to justify their religious beliefs, but I certainly know better than to rail against religion as a mode of human behavior. It isn't religion per se that frustrates the progress of our society. In the past it has done quite the opposite, too. Rather, it is poor, uncritical thinking that is to blame, generally.

If you want to decry a widespread pattern of human behavior, decry laziness. Decry the surrender of individuality. Decry hypocrisy. Decry ignorance. There is a plethora of human frailties which we can all work together to diminish instead of wasting our breath lamenting the practices of religions that materialize as a consequence of those underlying shortcomings.
 
darkswordsman17 said:
I'm not arguing your position...so...what? Really, what kind of logic is that? Not only that, but you're gonna have to be more specific since I kinda posted two things. I guess I'm supposed to assume you meant both?

The first is a half truth, because, as I pointed out, is not entirely legal. There are aspects that have been banned in various places. So saying its not been made illegal is not really entirely truthful. The second is a half-truth because in the US they are not federally recognized marriages so they are not given full legal respect even in the states where they are legal.
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That's what I meant by more effort.


Stem cell research is not banned as the poster I disputed suggested. People, like him, don't realize that GWB stopped federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. He did not ban the research. It could and did carry on with private funding. (You can argue that slowed it up, but that is not what we are debating here). Also, adult stem cell research is very promising, but some people are hung up on the embryos.

Same sex marriage is legal and performed in five states in U.S. thus far. The person I was disputing stated, "No gay marriage? Mmm, I wonder who's to blame, " when in fact, same sex marriages can be performed in some states. That's the truth. He was not disputing anything else.

You just took what I said a step further while the person I was disputing wasn't delving into that.
 
It's my bet that you embrace this whole religion thing when you are rotting away in a nursing home.
 
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