The *Official* "Watchmen" is overrated thread

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XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Here's a snippet of a review with which I agree wholeheartedly:

"My anti-'Watchmen' screed goes something like this: 'Watchmen' is a book that begs you to take its ideas seriously. And when you do, what you find is quite ugly.

"Moore hates heroes. Why he got into this line of work is something of a mystery. It's like someone who hates nature getting a gig with National Geographic. This hatred comes across on every page of Watchmen. He hates the heroes who gave up on heroism, painting them as impotent losers. He hates the heroes who kept fighting, making them into psychopaths and worse. But most of all, he hates the superhero, who he insists must be a vaguely-doltish uber-mensch. And more than anything else, in Moore's mind, heroes mean fascism.

"(Moore hates heroes so much that when he wrote Batman, he made the Joker out to be an innocent who was created by the Dark Knight.)

"So 'Watchmen' has all the Moore-hero themes: Governments are fascist; governments which are run by Republicans are really fascist; heroes who try to save the world are fascistic villains; heroes who try to stop the heroes trying to save the world are fascist thugs; etc. etc. etc. Orwell wrote that the term 'fascist' had become so overused that it had simply come to mean 'some one or thing I don't like.' But with Moore it's even worse: When he uses it, it doesn't really mean anything.

"I would argue that Moore's brand of dystopian misanthropy is wrong-headed and sophomoric and belied by 5,000 years of messy, imperfect, but ultimately glorious human history. But let's leave that aside for the moment: Watchmen's brand of dystopian misanthropy has been specifically refuted by events. It's one thing to worry about the evil U.S. policies of containment and mutually-assured destruction in 1986. It's one thing to paint a particular political party as being unconstitutionally obsessed with the possession of power and recklessly in pursuit of nuclear confrontation with an enemy who probably wasn't so bad.

"But as it turns out, that entire worldview was vitiated by events. In 1989 the Berlin Wall fell and the Cold War ended. Reagan's strategic policy decisions vis-a-vis the Soviet Union were completely vindicated. MAD proved to be an effective deterrent. The conflict between the East and West was settled without a shot being fired. And, perhaps most importantly, the Truman/Kennedy/Reagan view of communism as an insidious ideology which led to violent, repressive authoritarianism was borne out.

"So Moore was wrong. His fears were wrong. His warnings were wrong. His fundamental view of the world was wrong. And 'Watchmen,' in particular, is left as a bizarre cultural artifact. A pretentious piece of commentary masquerading as philosophy."



Okay, now my take . . . short snippets of thought. Note that I haven't seen the movie and don't plan to until I can rent it for a buck. ;)

First of all, I give kudos to Zach Snyder. By all accounts he did a fantastic job, which is all the more impressive considering every character in the story is a tool. It's an amazing accomplishment to make a film in which none of the characters possess an admirable trait.

Why in the world are there Watchmen toys/video games/lunch boxes marketed toward children? Yes, I know it was a comic book originally, but it was definitely an adult title. There's stuff in there that the lunchbox crowd need not see. As a father of a young child I am annoyed by people trying to push this stuff to elementary age kids. What's next, a Saw-themed "Operation" game?

Alan Moore is bughouse nuts. Don't believe me? Google Alan Moore snake. Weird-o.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
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I haven't' watched it yet, but was it ever highly rated to begin with? I mean its a movie based off a comic book made by the same people who made 300, the expectations really cannot be all that high (outside teh comic book fanboys) can they? The trailer made it pretty obvious it wasn't exactly gonna win best picture award.
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,513
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I guess I'm talking about all the fanboy hype. I will agree that I don't think it's going to be a huge mainstream success. I bet it doesn't even make as much $$$ as 300 did.
 

dbk

Lifer
Apr 23, 2004
17,685
10
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300 was fairly predictable but was much more entertaining, imo
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
3,038
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ok, so you have political hang-ups with the author, who by the way wants nothing to do with the film, or any of the
other films which have adapted his work. some jazz about 'intellectual rights being violated' blah .. blah . .. blah . ..

anyway, moore's normal paranoias are toned down in 'watchmen'. the real rub is with the central premise. it smacks
of arrested development, which is a regressive trait that lines all of moore's work. he likes to burden his superheroes
with gritty and philosophically pretentious adult themes. i think this makes a mockery of seriousness and kills the
supposed irony.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,739
454
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Meh, sounds like that guy is bitching over things I felt were refreshing. Having a superhero story where all the heroes had an obviously flawed human side was different and kept me interested. If you never want a fresh twist on your movies then whatever but I didn't mind it.
 

LtPage1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2004
6,311
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Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Seriously, what a terrible and shallow misreading of the book. The point of Watchmen is to look at the ugly side of humanity, at the dangers of an unchecked state that plays on our fears of the Other. Moore's point is to show us that ultimately, we have to stand together or die alone, and his device of the costumed hero shows us that you can't trust legitimate or vigilante violence to have anyone's interests but its own at heart.
I would argue that Moore's brand of dystopian misanthropy is wrong-headed and sophomoric and belied by 5,000 years of messy, imperfect, but ultimately glorious human history. But let's leave that aside for the moment: Watchmen's brand of dystopian misanthropy has been specifically refuted by events. It's one thing to worry about the evil U.S. policies of containment and mutually-assured destruction in 1986. It's one thing to paint a particular political party as being unconstitutionally obsessed with the possession of power and recklessly in pursuit of nuclear confrontation with an enemy who probably wasn't so bad.

But as it turns out, that entire worldview was vitiated by events. In 1989 the Berlin Wall fell and the Cold War ended. Reagan's strategic policy decisions vis-a-vis the Soviet Union were completely vindicated. MAD proved to be an effective deterrent. The conflict between the East and West was settled without a shot being fired. And, perhaps most importantly, the Truman/Kennedy/Reagan view of communism as an insidious ideology which led to violent, repressive authoritarianism was borne out.

Every sentence here would be laughable if it weren't so ugly and misleading. Wow. I don't feel like writing the 500 words necessary to show how incredibly incorrect all of that is.

I tend to agree that Watchmen isn't of the 100 best novels of the 20th century or anything like that, but to reduce it to a polemic against the Republican Party is just weak and wrong.
 

esun

Platinum Member
Nov 12, 2001
2,214
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I think it's natural that some (or even many) people won't like Watchmen. But who cares? If you like it, then watch it and enjoy it. If not, then don't see it. That's the beauty of movies: you can watch what you enjoy and skip what you don't. If you didn't like the premise of Moore's story, then why the hell would you watch the movie? If you already think every character is a tool, why watch the movie (because you already know he was faithful to the source)?
 
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