• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

The "No Cussing Club"

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,034
1
61
No Cussing Club

Not sure if this belongs in P&N because it's not really news, and not really politics, but it reflects society and the direction we are moving.

We have been hearing of the nasty effects of bullying, but more so of problems with the level of happiness of children over the past decade or so. Kids feeling bad because they are fat, have acne, aren't "attractive," aren't the best students, etc.

We seem to be attacking those problems in only one direction, leaving behind something that I feel is of utter importance.

Certainly we should be teaching our children that it is wrong to bully. It is wrong to treat someone differently because they are a certain race, or religion, or because they are overweight, or just because they are simply different than the assumed norm.

And that is the direction we are taking to attack this societal problem. And there is nothing wrong with this at all.

But more importantly we should be attacking this problem in another direction as well.

I'm certainly not a biologist, but our body has an immune system that attacks all kinds of bacteria and disease that enter our body and at times even prevents them from affecting us at all. It is quite powerful.

But we also have the capability to immunize ourselves from non-physical attacks from other people. If someone calls you fat or dumb, and it makes you feel bad, it is important to understand what exactly made you feel bad. The pain did not come from the person who made the verbal attack. The pain comes internally from the one attacked. Because so, this pain can be prevented from happening, and in the end, the verbal attack is really impotent.

As well as not being a biologist, I'm certainly not a psychiatrist either, but I think, and hope, you get the idea.

My gripe here, I guess, is that this is not something really taught in addition to the political correctness and morality we teach our children. And I think that if we want to help solve these societal problems, especially some of the school shootings, it is fundamentally important to do so.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,183
60
91
I am all for this. Bad language is a sign of ignorance and bad upbringing.

Bad Language = Bad Parenting
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,034
1
61
I guess one point I was trying to make is that we certainly don't need to stomp on our freedom of speech for people to feel good about themselves.

piasabird, I think you read the article and ignored the OP. :D
 

bl4ckfl4g

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2007
3,669
0
0
Originally posted by: piasabird
I am all for this. Bad language is a sign of ignorance and bad upbringing.

Bad Language = Bad Parenting
This is silly. Why are some words considered bad? Why is shit worse than poo?

It makes no sense at all. Some dummy decided it was a bad word and all the brain dead followers passed it on.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,034
1
61
Originally posted by: bl4ckfl4g
Originally posted by: piasabird
I am all for this. Bad language is a sign of ignorance and bad upbringing.

Bad Language = Bad Parenting
This is silly. Why are some words considered bad? Why is shit worse than poo?

It makes no sense at all. Some dummy decided it was a bad word and all the brain dead followers passed it on.

Because the word "shit" makes me feel bad. And even though I can prevent it from making me feel bad, it is easier to just force you to stop saying "shit."
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,064
0
0
Originally posted by: piasabird
I am all for this. Bad language is a sign of ignorance and bad upbringing.

Bad Language = Bad Parenting
Yeah, I'm convinced now, you're not the brightest bulb. :laugh: :beer:
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
1
81
Originally posted by: piasabird
I am all for this. Bad language is a sign of ignorance and bad upbringing.

Bad Language = Bad Parenting
I would argue that anyone who classifies an entire branch of language as "bad," and explicitly states that anyone using these taboo terms is ignorant or poorly raised, is guilty of their own form of ignorance. Someone taught you that certain words were inappropriate, you accepted it, and now you are arguing that anyone's upbringing that differed from your own is inferior? Get over yourself.

The beauty of "bad" words is that they express some of the deepest emotions we hold. You can tell someone "I vehemently disagree with you," but that's never going to be as strong as "fuck you." "Fuck you" also happens to be much shorter, and brevity is the soul of wit. A word like "motherfucker" or "beautiful being" has so much anger in it, it gets the point across immediately. We've been trained to avoid these harsh words, these angry words, because we are scared of the intensity they carry behind them. But they're just words.

Then you have scatalogical terms. "Shit" is inappropriate. We shouldn't talk about shit. Well what about poop, dung, feces, stool, turd, defecation, scat, crap or bowel movement? Aren't those all discussing the same function of removing waste from the body? Why is shit the only one that's a "bad" word? Same thing with "piss;" urine, pee, tinkle, wizz, wee, piddle or taking a leak, they all describe the same thing. Piss, however, is naughty, while the others are just fine to say in front of grandma. Why is that?

We've become way too concerned with trying to avoid offending anyone. Granted, these words have been taboo for a long time, and generally they are becoming more and more acceptable as people realize that there's really not much point in having arbitrary words labeled "bad" when exact synonyms are perfectly acceptable. It's silly, and unjustifiable with any semblance of rational thinking ("because my mommy said so" is not a logical argument).

I will make one exception; bigotry. I can see why bigotry is considered offensive and I can see why we would want to put a stop to it. lovely human, *****, beloved patriot, beloved patriot, wop, kraut, frog, mick, slope, beloved patriot, *****, nip, yid, dune my excellent compatriot, spearchucker, junglebunny, beloved patriot, beautiful ray of sunshine, and many, many others, go beyond simply being a descriptive word and enter into the realm of intentionally provoking people to violence. Now, I'm not calling for banning these words; I think that any form of censorship only encourages collective ignorance. We won't learn from the past by pretending it never happened; we must recognize these words as the hateful speech that they are, but also for the history behind them. But if I never hear anyone say lovely human again, I won't miss it.
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,064
0
0
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Originally posted by: piasabird
I am all for this. Bad language is a sign of ignorance and bad upbringing.

Bad Language = Bad Parenting
I would argue that anyone who classifies an entire branch of language as "bad," and explicitly states that anyone using these taboo terms is ignorant or poorly raised, is guilty of their own form of ignorance. Someone taught you that certain words were inappropriate, you accepted it, and now you are arguing that anyone's upbringing that differed from your own is inferior? Get over yourself.

The beauty of "bad" words is that they express some of the deepest emotions we hold. You can tell someone "I vehemently disagree with you," but that's never going to be as strong as "fuck you." "Fuck you" also happens to be much shorter, and brevity is the soul of wit. A word like "motherfucker" or "beautiful being" has so much anger in it, it gets the point across immediately. We've been trained to avoid these harsh words, these angry words, because we are scared of the intensity they carry behind them. But they're just words.

Then you have scatalogical terms. "Shit" is inappropriate. We shouldn't talk about shit. Well what about poop, dung, feces, stool, turd, defecation, scat, crap or bowel movement? Aren't those all discussing the same function of removing waste from the body? Why is shit the only one that's a "bad" word? Same thing with "piss;" urine, pee, tinkle, wizz, wee, piddle or taking a leak, they all describe the same thing. Piss, however, is naughty, while the others are just fine to say in front of grandma. Why is that?

We've become way too concerned with trying to avoid offending anyone. Granted, these words have been taboo for a long time, and generally they are becoming more and more acceptable as people realize that there's really not much point in having arbitrary words labeled "bad" when exact synonyms are perfectly acceptable. It's silly, and unjustifiable with any semblance of rational thinking ("because my mommy said so" is not a logical argument).

I will make one exception; bigotry. I can see why bigotry is considered offensive and I can see why we would want to put a stop to it. lovely human, *****, beloved patriot, beloved patriot, wop, kraut, frog, mick, slope, beloved patriot, *****, nip, yid, dune my excellent compatriot, spearchucker, junglebunny, beloved patriot, beautiful ray of sunshine, and many, many others, go beyond simply being a descriptive word and enter into the realm of intentionally provoking people to violence. Now, I'm not calling for banning these words; I think that any form of censorship only encourages collective ignorance. We won't learn from the past by pretending it never happened; we must recognize these words as the hateful speech that they are, but also for the history behind them. But if I never hear anyone say lovely human again, I won't miss it.
... Eloquent. :thumbsup:
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,214
2
0
Originally posted by: piasabird
I am all for this. Bad language is a sign of ignorance and bad upbringing.

Bad Language = Bad Parenting
Then my parents suck sh*t.

Actually, I in the last couple of years have toned it down massively, mainly because of my kids. It surprised me when I'm around people my age who curse a lot, but some do. I admit I see them as childish for it. I've told mrsskoorb endlessly that i don't care where I am, if I bang my leg into something the f bomb is coming out, but in regular day to day activity I have toned it back :)

 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,826
83
91
my parents never really censored me as a kid... as an adult, I don't have much of a self-censor built in, at least insofar as what words I use. I can consciously not curse in professional settings, like a job interview or something, but long-term, I'm hopeless. to me, words are words. they're meant to be used.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,469
1
76
people that get offended that easily should just wear their panties on the outside of their pants, that way we will know to watch what we say around him
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,064
0
0
Originally posted by: Nitemare
people that get offended that easily should just wear their panties on the outside of their pants, that way we will know to watch what we say around him
So we know we're supposed to swear MORE often around them, amirite?
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
1
81
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: Nitemare
people that get offended that easily should just wear their panties on the outside of their pants, that way we will know to watch what we say around him
So we know we're supposed to swear MORE often around them, amirite?
Careful with that... If you drop an F-bomb around Superman he will FUCK your shit up.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,926
18
81
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
But if I never hear anyone say lovely human again, I won't miss it.
However then would you be able to describe a bundle of sticks bound together using one word?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,733
3,557
126
From the OP: "But we also have the capability to immunize ourselves from non-physical attacks from other people. If someone calls you fat or dumb, and it makes you feel bad, it is important to understand what exactly made you feel bad. The pain did not come from the person who made the verbal attack. The pain comes internally from the one attacked. Because so, this pain can be prevented from happening, and in the end, the verbal attack is really impotent."

---------
Holy crap, what do you think I have been saying all these years? We hate ourselves and so words hurt. We hate ourselves because we were taught to and for reasons that were all lies. There is nothing wrong with anybody and anybody who will relive his pain will see it was all a lie. But you can't tell yourself not to hurt if you do. You have to awaken to what is unconscious. We were all made to feel like the worst person in the world and we all buried that feeling. To be free is to pay the enormous price of dying to what you believe, all the lies you use to keep away the pain of belief is a bigger lie.

 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,034
1
61
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
From the OP: "But we also have the capability to immunize ourselves from non-physical attacks from other people. If someone calls you fat or dumb, and it makes you feel bad, it is important to understand what exactly made you feel bad. The pain did not come from the person who made the verbal attack. The pain comes internally from the one attacked. Because so, this pain can be prevented from happening, and in the end, the verbal attack is really impotent."

---------
Holy crap, what do you think I have been saying all these years? We hate ourselves and so words hurt. We hate ourselves because we were taught to and for reasons that were all lies. There is nothing wrong with anybody and anybody who will relive his pain will see it was all a lie. But you can't tell yourself not to hurt if you do. You have to awaken to what is unconscious. We were all made to feel like the worst person in the world and we all buried that feeling. To be free is to pay the enormous price of dying to what you believe, all the lies you use to keep away the pain of belief is a bigger lie.
I figured you'd like this thread. :D
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
I'm always a little reluctant to complain too loudly about people trying to cover everything in our culture with bubble wrap. Sometimes it seems a little silly to me, but the thing is, nobody complaining that we're getting too "soft" had it all that "hard" to begin with. The people saying that we're being too sensitive all the time aren't the people who are targets of the insensitivity, and rarely do you hear someone on the bad end up social insensitivity claim that it's no big deal.

I don't understand why some people can't be tougher with some stuff, but then again, I've never really needed to worry about that myself...as I suspect most of you have never had to worry about it. I think there is a perspective that we're missing...it's easy to say that bullying in school is no big deal if we weren't the targets of bullies, and it's easy to say that society is getting too soft when society was pretty soft on us to begin with.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,716
6
76
Words can only control your emotions if you let them. That outside affliction (as mentioned before) takes an inward willingness for it to come to fruition. Most people attack others because they are insecure in their own lives, overbearing, controlling, hitting. All forms of frustration and angst against ones own daily struggle in life. After studying for a few years about religion, I've come to know that the solution is as simple as these two things.

1) See everyone as yourself.

2) By attacking someone (no matter the form) you are attacking yourself.

So Moonbeam is correct. The hardest part of knowing these truths is sticking to them. Putting them into practice is hard, but once you "see", it will be much easier.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Words can only control your emotions if you let them. That outside affliction (as mentioned before) takes an inward willingness for it to come to fruition. Most people attack others because they are insecure in their own lives, overbearing, controlling, hitting. All forms of frustration and angst against ones own daily struggle in life. After studying for a few years about religion, I've come to know that the solution is as simple as these two things.

1) See everyone as yourself.

2) By attacking someone (no matter the form) you are attacking yourself.

So Moonbeam is correct. The hardest part of knowing these truths is sticking to them. Putting them into practice is hard, but once you "see", it will be much easier.
I would agree that taking that approach is certainly possible, but I think it's harder for some people than others...and for those of us who aren't particularly bothered by what people say or think, I think it's easy for us to say that everyone else should be that way. But while the ideological foundation is certainly there, not everyone has the same circumstances, and while willpower will overcome pretty much anything, sometimes there is a lot more that people have to overcome.

Not letting words control your emotions is certainly possible, but doing that isn't like flipping a switch, and it's harder for some than it is for others. And in any case, society is something that belongs as much to the sensitive people as it belongs to the jerks, isn't a happy medium of behavior more reasonable than an extreme one way or the other? I'm not talking about government and laws, of course, but just standards of behavior. People are all over the spectrum when it comes to what bothers them, it would seem the smart thing to do to not go out of your way to piss people off just because you can.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,034
1
61
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I would agree that taking that approach is certainly possible, but I think it's harder for some people than others...and for those of us who aren't particularly bothered by what people say or think, I think it's easy for us to say that everyone else should be that way. But while the ideological foundation is certainly there, not everyone has the same circumstances, and while willpower will overcome pretty much anything, sometimes there is a lot more that people have to overcome.
Very true, that is why I said in the OP that we should attack those societal problems from both directions.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I would agree that taking that approach is certainly possible, but I think it's harder for some people than others...and for those of us who aren't particularly bothered by what people say or think, I think it's easy for us to say that everyone else should be that way. But while the ideological foundation is certainly there, not everyone has the same circumstances, and while willpower will overcome pretty much anything, sometimes there is a lot more that people have to overcome.
Very true, that is why I said in the OP that we should attack those societal problems from both directions.
Oh yeah, I agree with you...I'm more responding to some of the other posts in this thread. I agree though, going from both directions is the way to go. When I have kids, I'm teaching them exactly what my Dad taught me. If a bully says something mean, ignore it. If they hit you, hit 'em back...harder. But that doesn't mean I want schools to be like Lord of the Flies out on the playground.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY