The next time you talk about the "left wing liberal media", remember this

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
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One helpful video from FB to explain it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants

Fact-checking the video, the only mistake I found in it is the assertion that McDonalds reduced the coffee serving temp after the lawsuit. According to Wikipedia, they didn't (hence the "coffee is hot" warnings).

And before anyone chimes in with "duh, coffee is hot", consider this:
wikipedia said:
McDonald's claimed that the reason for serving such hot coffee in its drive-through windows was that those who purchased the coffee typically were commuters who wanted to drive a distance with the coffee; the high initial temperature would keep the coffee hot during the trip.[2] However, it came to light that McDonald's had done research which indicated that customers intend to consume the coffee immediately while driving.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants#cite_note-lectlaw-3

The point of "fast food" is that it is served quickly and you get to eat it quickly, strangely enough. Imagine sitting down to eat at a fast food restaurant, and instead of waiting 20 minutes for your food to arrive (like you would at a normal restaurant most of the time), you have to wait 20 minutes for it to cool down beyond scalding temperatures. Who would buy into that?

So you have a situation where a corporation prefers to serve products at harmful temperatures because it works better with their workflow, ignore the consequences as best they can and then run massive media campaigns to make people think they shouldn't complain, and the media as we know swallowed the BS hook, line and sinker, and even invented BS to disparage the injured person. The obvious conclusion is that we have a mostly left-wing liberal media!
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,672
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One helpful video from FB to explain it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants

Fact-checking the video, the only mistake I found in it is the assertion that McDonalds reduced the coffee serving temp after the lawsuit. According to Wikipedia, they didn't (hence the "coffee is hot" warnings).

And before anyone chimes in with "duh, coffee is hot", consider this:

The point of "fast food" is that it is served quickly and you get to eat it quickly, strangely enough. Imagine sitting down to eat at a fast food restaurant, and instead of waiting 20 minutes for your food to arrive (like you would at a normal restaurant most of the time), you have to wait 20 minutes for it to cool down beyond scalding temperatures. Who would buy into that?

So you have a situation where a corporation prefers to serve products at harmful temperatures because it works better with their workflow, ignore the consequences as best they can and then run massive media campaigns to make people think they shouldn't complain, and the media as we know swallowed the BS hook, line and sinker, and even invented BS to disparage the injured person. The obvious conclusion is that we have a mostly left-wing liberal media!

Excellent video and so true, its done with everything.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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There's simply 2 sides to this.

1) Against McDonalds - they served the coffee at an extremely hot temperature - above regulation rules IIRC?

2) Against the woman - at the end of the day - anyone that has responsibility in life will argue that it's your fault for spilling it on yourself. It is indeed true, that your own clumsiness is the ultimate cause for the tragic events. The obvious counter argument to this, though, is that it gave her 3rd degree burns due to the extremely hot temperature.

At the end of the day, I see both sides - ultimately, McDonalds should have wrote a check for her medical bills because that was all she was asking for originally. I side with the woman only because McDonalds was stupid for not cutting their losses.

Also might just be me but I'm not seeing a video in the OP?
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,080
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One helpful video from FB to explain it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants

Fact-checking the video, the only mistake I found in it is the assertion that McDonalds reduced the coffee serving temp after the lawsuit. According to Wikipedia, they didn't (hence the "coffee is hot" warnings).

And before anyone chimes in with "duh, coffee is hot", consider this:

The point of "fast food" is that it is served quickly and you get to eat it quickly, strangely enough. Imagine sitting down to eat at a fast food restaurant, and instead of waiting 20 minutes for your food to arrive (like you would at a normal restaurant most of the time), you have to wait 20 minutes for it to cool down beyond scalding temperatures. Who would buy into that?

So you have a situation where a corporation prefers to serve products at harmful temperatures because it works better with their workflow, ignore the consequences as best they can and then run massive media campaigns to make people think they shouldn't complain, and the media as we know swallowed the BS hook, line and sinker, and even invented BS to disparage the injured person. The obvious conclusion is that we have a mostly left-wing liberal media!

There is more.

The temp was not above industry standard nor above recommended brewing temps.

That kinda makes the entire basis of the case bunk.

Everyone still brews and serves coffee at those temps.

So no change in the industry except more idiot warnings. That's it. The entire case hinged on the misconception that McDonald's served their coffee at temps above the industry standard and above the recommended brewing temp. Those are both demonstrably false.

McDonald's did not take this case seriously. They got owned. Notice there hasn't been a case won like this since even though there has been an explosion in coffee houses since and all serve their coffee at the recommended brewing temps? (195 - 205f)

Edit: it should be noted that coffee poured into a cold cup at 195 is 185-175 or so by the time the pouring is done. So in reality, no coffee is served at the brewing temp as it loses a lot of heat energy in the serving process.

The entire industry still goes straight from brewing temp to serve. Exactly fuck all has changed.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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There is more.

The temp was not above industry standard nor above recommended brewing temps.

That kinda makes the entire basis of the case bunk.

Everyone still brews and serves coffee at those temps.

So no change in the industry except more idiot warnings. That's it. The entire case hinged on the misconception that McDonald's served their coffee at temps above the industry standard and above the recommended brewing temp. Those are both demonstrably false.

McDonald's did not take this case seriously. They got owned. Notice there hasn't been a case won like this since even though there has been an explosion in coffee houses since and all serve their coffee at the recommended brewing temps? (195 - 205f)

Wiki page seems to align with your statements as well:

In 1994, a spokesman for the National Coffee Association said that the temperature of McDonald's coffee conformed to industry standards.[2] An "admittedly unscientific" survey by the LA Times that year found that coffee was served between 157 and 182 °F (69 and 83 °C), and that two coffee outlets tested, one Burger King and one Starbucks, served hotter coffee than McDonald's.[32]

Since Liebeck, McDonald's has not reduced the service temperature of its coffee. McDonald's policy today is to serve coffee at 80–90 °C (176–194 °F),[33] relying on more sternly worded warnings on cups made of rigid foam to avoid future liability, though it continues to face lawsuits over hot coffee.[33][34] The Specialty Coffee Association of America supports improved packaging methods rather than lowering the temperature at which coffee is served. The association has successfully aided the defense of subsequent coffee burn cases.[35] Similarly, as of 2004, Starbucks sells coffee at 175–185 °F (79–85 °C), and the executive director of the Specialty Coffee Association of America reported that the standard serving temperature is 160–185 °F (71–85 °C).
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
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There is more.

The temp was not above industry standard nor above recommended brewing temps.

That kinda makes the entire basis of the case bunk.

Everyone still brews and serves coffee at those temps.

So no change in the industry except more idiot warnings. That's it. The entire case hinged on the misconception that McDonald's served their coffee at temps above the industry standard and above the recommended brewing temp. Those are both demonstrably false.

McDonald's did not take this case seriously. They got owned. Notice there hasn't been a case won like this since even though there has been an explosion in coffee houses since and all serve their coffee at the recommended brewing temps? (195 - 205f)

Edit: it should be noted that coffee poured into a cold cup at 195 is 185-175 or so by the time the pouring is done. So in reality, no coffee is served at the brewing temp as it loses a lot of heat energy in the serving process.

The entire industry still goes straight from brewing temp to serve. Exactly fuck all has changed.

Yeah, as an avowed leftist there are plenty of things to dislike about McDonalds, but this isn't one of them. Accidents happen and a sane society would take care of people and not stick them with tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills because of a horrific accident. This is much more a story about universal health care than anything else.

I also thought that the "700 complaints about burns from their coffee" statistic was pretty meaningless without any kind of context about how much coffee they serve.
 
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If I remember correctly that McDonalds was warned/fined multiple times about coffee being too hot
I think I remember something about it being served at or close to boiling a tempature no human could drink
 

Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
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If I remember correctly that McDonalds was warned/fined multiple times about coffee being too hot
I think I remember something about it being served at or close to boiling a tempature no human could drink

It's at the temperature where you get the most out of the beans, the other option is boiling the coffee beans and then filtering them which will result in pretty much the same temperature.

You can't make good coffee at a lower temperature and if you spill it on yourself because you are acting like a retard and fiddling with cups between your legs while driving (which is illegal in and of itself) then you should not just get burned, you should get a free hysterectomy/castration.

We don't need fuckers as stupid as that breeding.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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It's at the temperature where you get the most out of the beans, the other option is boiling the coffee beans and then filtering them which will result in pretty much the same temperature.

You can't make good coffee at a lower temperature and if you spill it on yourself because you are acting like a retard and fiddling with cups between your legs while driving (which is illegal in and of itself) then you should not just get burned, you should get a free hysterectomy/castration.

We don't need fuckers as stupid as that breeding.

She got 3rd degree burns (again if I remember correctly)
Below is an example of a 3rd degree burn

unknown-2.jpeg
 

Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
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She got 3rd degree burns (again if I remember correctly)
Below is an example of a 3rd degree burn

unknown-2.jpeg

I know what a third degree burn looks like, my father fell through a roof of a burning building and sustained 3'rd degree burns on 70% of his body.

How is this an argument for brewing coffee? You're trying to make it into something it's not by going emotional and showing horrific burns but it's fucking COFFEE, it's going to be real fucking hot and if you're too dumb to understand that then you shouldn't be allowed to drive in the first place.

I mean, if you don't get that coffee = hot then you probably don't get that sidewalk = not for driving your car on.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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I know what a third degree burn looks like, my father fell through a roof of a burning building and sustained 3'rd degree burns on 70% of his body.

How is this an argument for brewing coffee? You're trying to make it into something it's not by going emotional and showing horrific burns but it's fucking COFFEE, it's going to be real fucking hot and if you're too dumb to understand that then you shouldn't be allowed to drive in the first place.

I mean, if you don't get that coffee = hot then you probably don't get that sidewalk = not for driving your car on.

You started it

if you spill it on yourself because you are acting like a retard and fiddling with cups between your legs while driving (which is illegal in and of itself) then you should not just get burned, you should get a free hysterectomy/castration.

If someone serves me a coffee, I expect to be able to drink it and if it can't be drank I need a warning its impossible to drink because of the temperature.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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I know what a third degree burn looks like, my father fell through a roof of a burning building and sustained 3'rd degree burns on 70% of his body.

How is this an argument for brewing coffee? You're trying to make it into something it's not by going emotional and showing horrific burns but it's fucking COFFEE, it's going to be real fucking hot and if you're too dumb to understand that then you shouldn't be allowed to drive in the first place.

I mean, if you don't get that coffee = hot then you probably don't get that sidewalk = not for driving your car on.

Speaking of sidewalks, I think that this often relates to things such as when I had some issues with the sidewalk outside my house. People online were advising me to put up an orange cone over the hole in the sidewalk for fear that someone might trip and try to sue me for them hurting themselves. How is this much different? At the end of the day, it is HANDS DOWN one's own negligence for the situation occurring. Regardless of the hotness of the coffee - damage cannot occur without ones own negligence.

Just trying to compare this to other things, curious what P&Ns thoughts are in comparison.
 

Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
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You started it

I started what? You are going emotional with gore pics while I stated how good coffee is brewed, how in the fuck did I start it?

If someone serves me a coffee, I expect to be able to drink it and if it can't be drank I need a warning its impossible to drink because of the temperature.

Yeah, well if you get black drip it's going to be extremely hot no matter where you get it from. Doesn't matter if it's from Starbucks, McD's or from your own brewer.

That's how I take my coffee and it's not drinkable for at least 10 minutes, EVERYONE knows this.
 

Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
586
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Speaking of sidewalks, I think that this often relates to things such as when I had some issues with the sidewalk outside my house. People online were advising me to put up an orange cone over the hole in the sidewalk for fear that someone might trip and try to sue me for them hurting themselves. How is this much different? At the end of the day, it is HANDS DOWN one's own negligence for the situation occurring. Regardless of the hotness of the coffee - damage cannot occur without ones own negligence.

Just trying to compare this to other things, curious what P&Ns thoughts are in comparison.

It's not on your land so you are not liable for any injuries occurring on that sidewalk. You might want to talk to the city about it though if you have kids or people you like walking there. If people you don't like are walking there you could probably make it bigger and deeper in the middle of the night and blame natural erosion. ;)

But you have no responsibility to do anything about it and you're not liable if someone would be hurt on public property.
 
Nov 25, 2013
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It's at the temperature where you get the most out of the beans, the other option is boiling the coffee beans and then filtering them which will result in pretty much the same temperature.

You can't make good coffee at a lower temperature and if you spill it on yourself because you are acting like a retard and fiddling with cups between your legs while driving (which is illegal in and of itself) then you should not just get burned, you should get a free hysterectomy/castration.

We don't need fuckers as stupid as that breeding.

Drop the hysterics. She was a passenger in the car. The car was parked. She had placed the coffee between her legs to secure the cup as she tried to get the lid off. That's when the coffee spilled.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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I started what? You are going emotional with gore pics while I stated how good coffee is brewed, how in the fuck did I start it?



Yeah, well if you get black drip it's going to be extremely hot no matter where you get it from. Doesn't matter if it's from Starbucks, McD's or from your own brewer.

That's how I take my coffee and it's not drinkable for at least 10 minutes, EVERYONE knows this.

I have never been burned by coffee in 30 years, never. How does everyone else manage to make coffee that doesn't cause a hospital emergency room visit for drinking the coffee. Additionally I'd wager that if I asked you in 1992(?) who made the best coffee, I highly doubt you would say McDonald's.
again going from memory:
The coffee was served at an unreasonably high temperature
That McDonald's had been warned about its coffee being too hot, they chose to do nothing about it
McDonald's admitted it had multiple other burn cases and settled with all of them, they decided it was easier to settle than replace their equipment.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
17,401
136
Speaking of sidewalks, I think that this often relates to things such as when I had some issues with the sidewalk outside my house. People online were advising me to put up an orange cone over the hole in the sidewalk for fear that someone might trip and try to sue me for them hurting themselves. How is this much different? At the end of the day, it is HANDS DOWN one's own negligence for the situation occurring. Regardless of the hotness of the coffee - damage cannot occur without ones own negligence.

Just trying to compare this to other things, curious what P&Ns thoughts are in comparison.

better example is you put a metal plate on the sidewalk, more than one person has tripped on the metal plate, the town has asked you to move the metal plate, then someone trips on it and needs an ER trip for a major wound.
 

Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
586
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I have never been burned by coffee in 30 years, never. How does everyone else manage to make coffee that doesn't cause a hospital emergency room visit for drinking the coffee. Additionally I'd wager that if I asked you in 1992(?) who made the best coffee, I highly doubt you would say McDonald's.
again going from memory:
The coffee was served at an unreasonably high temperature
That McDonald's had been warned about its coffee being too hot, they chose to do nothing about it
McDonald's admitted it had multiple other burn cases and settled with all of them, they decided it was easier to settle than replace their equipment.

A normal coffee brewer drips it at 207F and the plate holds it at that temperature. If you can drink that straight up you're not a human being.

Of course, if you have a shit brewer or order shit coffee that isn't brewed at the right temperature then you won't have that problem but OTOH you might sue for getting shit coffee.
 

Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
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Drop the hysterics. She was a passenger in the car. The car was parked. She had placed the coffee between her legs to secure the cup as she tried to get the lid off. That's when the coffee spilled.

My apologies for getting it wrong. It's wholly my mistake but my point still stands, coffee is hot and if you don't get that then you should probably never procreate.

I mean, that is Trump voter level stupid.
 

Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
586
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better example is you put a metal plate on the sidewalk, more than one person has tripped on the metal plate, the town has asked you to move the metal plate, then someone trips on it and needs an ER trip for a major wound.

He'd be responsible whether the town had asked him to move it or not. You're not allowed to fix potholes on your own when they are on public grounds.

Don't fuck with public property, just call the city and have them fix it and if you have people you don't want to get hurt passing through just tell them about it or mark the area with orange pothole paint.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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I have never been burned by coffee in 30 years, never. How does everyone else manage to make coffee that doesn't cause a hospital emergency room visit for drinking the coffee. Additionally I'd wager that if I asked you in 1992(?) who made the best coffee, I highly doubt you would say McDonald's.
again going from memory:
The coffee was served at an unreasonably high temperature
That McDonald's had been warned about its coffee being too hot, they chose to do nothing about it
McDonald's admitted it had multiple other burn cases and settled with all of them, they decided it was easier to settle than replace their equipment.

Here's a project:

Make coffee or buy coffee from any coffee house.

Sit in a car bucket seat.

Pour the coffee in your lap within minutes of getting it. Do not move for 10 minutes.

I don't care where you buy your coffee, you'll have 3rd degree burns.

The McDonald's lawsuit was a joke. McDonald's didn't take it seriously.

Nothing, and I mean nothing in the industry has changed, with the exception of more idiot warnings.

Coffee is still ideally brewed at 195-205F. Coffee is still ideally served directly after brewing. By the time it's been poured in a cold cup and served it is 185-175F. Which, BTW, is the ideal serving temp.

Feel free to educate yourself on coffee. Look up any gourmet coffee site. Check their recommended temps.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
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No competent company serves coffee to a customer that can cause a 3rd degree burn.

Full.

Stop.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,156
14,695
136
if you spill it on yourself because you are acting like a retard and fiddling with cups between your legs while driving (which is illegal in and of itself) then you should not just get burned, you should get a free hysterectomy/castration.

It's clear you haven't watched the video. She wasn't driving, she wasn't the driver, and the car was parked.

But you've provided a living example of why I started this thread, that McDonalds was helped in their aim of pulling off a huge piece of fake news about this case and that the obviously not mostly left-wing liberal media lapped it up instead of investigating its veracity and even helped them make up more BS.
 
Last edited:
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Here's a project:

Make coffee or buy coffee from any coffee house.

Sit in a car bucket seat.

Pour the coffee in your lap within minutes of getting it. Do not move for 10 minutes.

I don't care where you buy your coffee, you'll have 3rd degree burns.

The McDonald's lawsuit was a joke. McDonald's didn't take it seriously.

Nothing, and I mean nothing in the industry has changed, with the exception of more idiot warnings.

Coffee is still ideally brewed at 195-205F. Coffee is still ideally served directly after brewing. By the time it's been poured in a cold cup and served it is 185-175F. Which, BTW, is the ideal serving temp.

Feel free to educate yourself on coffee. Look up any gourmet coffee site. Check their recommended temps.

Gourmet sites aren’t the standard, it would be the local board or health or business inspectors.
If they say the coffee is too damn hot then it’s too hot. Ignore them at your own risk.