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The New American - Trading Away Jobs and Liberty

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Trading Away Jobs and Liberty

??Outsourcing," "offshoring," "human resource realignment," "training your replacement." These are words that send chills through millions of workers in IT ("information technology") and other hi-tech industries. They also send waves of anger and depression. In the tragic case of Kevin Flanagan, they are being blamed for his suicide. For months, the 41-year-old Silicon Valley software programmer had been anticipating a layoff announcement from his employer, Bank of America.

"He knew that Bank of America was sending jobs overseas," Contra Costa Times reporter Ellen Lee wrote in a May 13th article. "He had seen his friends and coworkers leave until only he and one other person remained on the last project Flanagan worked on." On the April afternoon after he had been told his job was terminated, Kevin Flanagan went outside and shot himself dead in the parking lot of the Bank of America?s Concord Technology Center.

The General Agreement on Trade in Services will affect virtually all service industries and service jobs, which means virtually all American businesses and jobs. The Office of the U.S. Trade Representative, which takes the lead in negotiating trade agreements, provides this answer to its own question, "What are services?":

Services are what most Americans do for a living. Service industries account for nearly 80 percent of U.S. employment and GDP. U.S. exports of commercial services (i.e., excluding military and government) were $246 billion in 1998, supporting over 4 million services and manufacturing jobs in the United States.

GATS targets all of these service industries, including insurance, banking, legal services, accounting, engineering, teaching, real estate, tourism, consulting, energy distribution, transportation, telecommunications, courier and postal services, and much, much more.

This is the essence of the message delivered to U.S. corporate leaders in an influential 2003 report from Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu, a CFR corporate member. Entitled The Cusp of a Revolution: How offshoring will transform the financial services industry, the Deloitte report tells CEOs that they had better get their companies aboard the offshore express before they miss out completely on this "transformational" opportunity and are left in the dust.

"The shifting of activities to lower-cost locations," it claims, "ignites the possibility of transforming the structure of the financial-services industry. Indeed, it offers a once-in-a-generation opportunity to reduce significantly the operating costs of the majority of financial institutions." According to the report, "$356 billion of cost for the global financial-services industry will be relocated offshore within the next five years. We calculate that this will translate into a bottom-line annual cost savings of $138 billion (or $1.4 billion each) for the world?s top 100 financial-services companies by 2008."

Estimating that 13 million people are employed in financial services jobs in "mature industrial economies," the Deloitte analysis predicts a "potential movement of up to two million jobs" offshore. Cusp of a Revolution notes: "In 5 years GE Capital has offshored 11,000 positions to India and is now considering the impact of commercializing their offshore capabilities on their competitive advantage."

Relatively little organized opposition to these schemes has materialized, except for that led by the left-wing anti-globalization forces. Most Republicans and conservative, patriotic Americans, still enamored of President Bush, have bought into the nonsensical arguments of the administration that these FTAs are the ticket to ever-expanding prosperity.

But that is changing rapidly, as more and more Americans are feeling the harsh reality of the planned "new world order" or are beginning to see the writing on the wall concerning their own jobs, businesses, and professions.

By attacking virtually every segment of society simultaneously, the one-worlders may be miscalculating; they risk awakening, angering, and activating an immense resistance involving Americans from all socio-economic backgrounds and every walk of life. These newly awakened Americans can be reached and organized into a formidable force to upset the subversive globalist agenda and preserve our independence. But we have no time to waste.

The NewAmerican.com - Engineered Extinction
 
IT is over priced for an equivalent amount of training and it's starting to show in the market.

Word of advice: get your masters, and then expect as much pay as anyone else with a masters.

Actually, during the 70s psychoanalysis went through something very similar;
You could get a good job with not much more than an associates degree, or a little studying from a book

As more people went into the field, prices paid fell. As that happened the level of education demanded increased dramatically. Now you can?t do much of anything without a dr. in psychoanalysis, and then your only half educated w/out being an actual medical doctor who can prescribe medication.

Expect the same in IT.
 
Wait, I thought the left was all for globalism and that the U.S. shouldn't be "going it alone", that we should secede our sovereignty to the U.N. and that we should do something to help the impoverished nations of the world, etc. etc. Isn't this exactly what they've been asking for?
 
Originally posted by: Format C:
Wait, I thought the left was all for globalism and that the U.S. shouldn't be "going it alone", that we should secede our sovereignty to the U.N. and that we should do something to help the impoverished nations of the world, etc. etc. Isn't this exactly what they've been asking for?


I think the "left" you are thinking about would respond that they want global cooperation of people, not global cooperation of corporations. Of course, not all left-wingers are anti-free trade.
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Format C:
Wait, I thought the left was all for globalism and that the U.S. shouldn't be "going it alone", that we should secede our sovereignty to the U.N. and that we should do something to help the impoverished nations of the world, etc. etc. Isn't this exactly what they've been asking for?


I think the "left" you are thinking about would respond that they want global cooperation of people, not global cooperation of corporations. Of course, not all left-wingers are anti-free trade.
So helping people is good... unless it's getting them jobs so they can support a society and not starve to death... if your doing that, then it's bad.. Because it 'destroys the environment'...

I get it! We all just need to live in trees like elves! Then we'll be good, no hurting Mother Nature, and everyone can have nifty magic powers!
 
Offshoring of jobs will continue well into the future. Although the government is very short sighted on this issue. With such a large amount of high paying jobs being set to leave the country over the next 5-10 years there will be a large gap in income tax they are receiving. State governments have already seen this and as such have had a hard time gripping with thier large deficits. I have no problem with offshoring as a whole, there just needs to be new high paying jobs available for those that get laid off. There is a common misconception that those that got laid off aren't highly trained and educated, but that just isn't the case at all. Go to the job fairs and see for yourself. I have known personally a few that have trained others to fill thier posistion. Cough....hp employee...... It seems to be a very degrading thing to do to someone. The quick fix would be to completely kill the h1b visas in the industries that are doing this the most. Maybe even making the companies pay the same as the US worker would have make, also supplying them with medical benefits and healthcare. That would certainly make it less desireable. Maybe the government should make the companies provide thier offshore workers with healthcare benefits. In the end there needs to be some serious thought by the moron....ooops I mean government, since this will inevitably effect the way they continue to do business. Less high paying jobs means that they should all take a pay cut to offset the loss in revenue. This would mean that the president would give back the 200k raise he gave himself when he took office. Congress and the senate would also have to give back thier last raise. Then finally they might understand the current plight of the worker here in the US. Maybe just maybe we should offsource every other job in the federal government, including the congress and senate. Not only would we be paying a 1/3 of what we are paying them now, but they would probably get more done on a daily basis. Whats good for the gander is good for the goose. The current government as a whole just doesn't see that this will become a serious long term issue on the growth and economy in the US. Unless we all start to see some heavy deflation.
 
With such a large amount of high paying jobs being set to leave the country over the next 5-10 years there will be a large gap in income tax they are receiving.
man.. a shrink in the size of government.. talk about wonderful unforeseen consequences!

I have no problem with offshoring as a whole, there just needs to be new high paying jobs available for those that get laid off.
Perot wasn't lying when he said you'd hear a giant sucking sound coming from the south w/ NAFTA.

fact is free triad just balances America out with the rest of the world. Only question now: how do we make the rest of the world nicer.

ough....hp employee...... It seems to be a very degrading thing to do to someone.
how does an emotional appeal change someone's usefulness in society? fact is: you don?t have a job, your not worth hiring. how's that for 'degrading'? It's a fact, cold hard, just like life.

Maybe the government should make the companies provide thier offshore workers with healthcare benefits.
so we try to force socialism on the world.. yea, right.

This would mean that the president would give back the 200k raise he gave himself when he took office. Congress and the senate would also have to give back their last raise.
What makes you think that the chump-change that floats around as pay is all that important? it's nothing compared to the overall budget.

If someone is better in public service than the private sector we should pay them in-step with what they?d get if they where captain of industry instead of captain of government.


Then finally they might understand the current plight of the worker here in the US. Maybe just maybe we should offsource every other job in the federal government, including the congress and senate.
ha-ha, point made, let's import Indians to serve as senators; I?m sure they'd do a much better job of it.

The current government as a whole just doesn't see that this will become a serious long term issue on the growth and economy in the US. Unless we all start to see some heavy deflation.
what with international good being much cheaper: that's exactly what we've been seeing; though gas is a sticking point.

but i don't know that it'd help US production, lower inflation = higher savings = less consumption = less production = less employment.

The economic miracle of deflation hasn?t much helped the Japanese.
 
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
IT is over priced for an equivalent amount of training and it's starting to show in the market.

Word of advice: get your masters, and then expect as much pay as anyone else with a masters.
[ ... ]
That may be true in some areas of computer science. In mainstream business IT, however, I've seen virtually no correlation between education and value to the business. Some of the best IT pros I've seen have no university training. Similarly, people with advanced degrees may or may not be competent in IT. It really depends more on personal qualities and innate talent, especially initiative, a drive to learn, a logical, analytical mind, and a knack for solving problems.

That's not to say a degree is of no value. It's a good place to build the education foundation one needs and to demonstrate to employers you have the commitment to get things done. It helps one get in the door compared to people with less education. Nonetheless, it is a poor predictor of how people will perform on the job.

In many ways, I think a talent for IT is analagous to acting talent or sports talent. Some people have it, some don't. The ones who are most valuable to the business are those who have the talent, degree or not. They are worth compensating for that talent. That doesn't mean seven-figure salaries. It does mean you don't pay IT people based on their education. You pay them based on their value.
 
They do get paid what they are worth, at least for government outsourcing, unless your me.

There is 4 major outsourcing companies operating in my place of work. How lucky I am to be stuck with the only one that guts our pay and eliminates any benefits.

The big thing right now, with election promises, is that outsourced government jobs are going back into the government, here in Canada. What they don't tell you is that there is already talk of outsourcing us poor IT folk yet again and we haven't even been taken back yet, which is only coming next year.

The best part? Companies charge anywhere from 20-200% more per hour for IT positions that are outsourced to them. Who does the job? Usually the same person. The job usually only changes hands when some outsourcing company cuts pay and cuts benefits to inflate their profits before going onto the next contract.

20% may not sound so bad but why are you even paying 20% more for work that could be done for 20% less then what the contractor is charging? Its the same person doing the same job.

Answer: Government gets to tell ignorant taxpayers that they have reduced the size of government, which is false since cutting government jobs 99% of the time means it hits public services, many of which are considered essential, therefore they cannot afford to cut government jobs because that would collapse many services.

Solution: Don't outsource jobs that are paid for by tax payers. I don't think they would appreciate some manager handing a contract to his/her bum buddy that charges $75 an hour for a $24 an hour job.

Oh one last thing, you think a contracting company pays even a large fraction of that $75 an hour to the person doing the job? No. Its a common misconception. If they are lucky the person doing the job gets a very modest raise. Usually there is no raise.
 
Imagine the cost of dismantling the current global trade system. Can you imagine the backlash?

The only problem I see with global worker exploitation is loyalty. Who decides to punish a guy half way across the world that decides to debit $.01 off every checking account to some offshore account, like in the Cayman Islands? We can only have so many Grenada invasions to quell these pirate banks. Oh, yeah, Grenada was about rescueing students. 😉
 
The only problem I see with global worker exploitation is loyalty.

The only problem I see is that we aren't playing by the same set of rules. Foreign countries have no where near the OSHA and environmental standards we have. And don't think for a minute that those types of things don't effect you - we live in a very small world.

Just wait until the companies move their jobs around at a quickening pace. India too expensive? Try some other 3rd world hell-hole.

What happens in a few years when the US workers wake up and really fight this trend? You guessed it - the mega-corporations will be asking for MORE handouts...
 
From my experience you do not get what you pay for by hiring cheap imported labor.
A immigrant construction worker who makes 12$ an hour gets about 1/5 as much work done as an American construction worker who makes 20$ an hour. No exageration there that is just how it is. These people cannot keep up to the hard work pace.
From my experience dealing with India call centers the 2$ an hour they pay these people is overpriced because they offer 0 help at all.
They would be more cost effective to have no support at all since that is exactly what we get from Indians.
American workers are the best value by far.
 
Originally posted by: Wolfdog
This would mean that the president would give back the 200k raise he gave himself when he took office.


Actually, Clinton signed the bill authorizing the Presidential pay raise to $400,000/year in September, 1999.
 
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Then finally they might understand the current plight of the worker here in the US. Maybe just maybe we should offsource every other job in the federal government, including the congress and senate.
ha-ha, point made, let's import Indians to serve as senators; I?m sure they'd do a much better job of it.


That's hilarious. 😀
 
Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
From my experience dealing with India call centers the 2$ an hour they pay these people is overpriced because they offer 0 help at all. They would be more cost effective to have no support at all since that is exactly what we get from Indians.

American workers are the best value by far.

Perhaps its an extension of the current TELECOM industry model? I get absolutely no support calling them. Hell, I cannot even reach humans at my telecom unless I need internet account help, and then only after I get a call back when they have time.
 
Originally posted by: Bowmaster
The only problem I see with global worker exploitation is loyalty.

The only problem I see is that we aren't playing by the same set of rules. Foreign countries have no where near the OSHA and environmental standards we have. And don't think for a minute that those types of things don't effect you - we live in a very small world.

Its all part of the master 3rd world conspiracy plan. Sabotage the U.S., payoff the CEO's, setup substandard wok rules to keep costs down, make the children work to keep costs down, and the jobs will come...

😛
 
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