The necessity of total public video surveillance, is that where we are heading?

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
10,176
1,920
126
With all of the violence across America in recent time, the riots, the protests, Rittenhouse, Ahmaud Arbery, and now todays Atlanta airport incident where the guy simply took off and ran away, is it time for America to impose a nationwide video surveillance program much like that in China?

Video surveillance is the decider in many a court cases, that is... when video surveillance is available. And the police are required to wear video cams, and every self respecting business has full video surveillance installed outside, and in. But is that enough? It looks like America should, and probably will have no option but to commit the money and the resources and the funding to make America the worlds number one video surveillance nation. So much so where an individual, any and every individual, can be tracked using video surveillance wherever one might venture to "within public". From the point of entering one's car parked in the driveway, or one leaving the front door. No matter who, where, or when... as long as that person is outside exposed in public then they will be under video surveillance.

Imagine, no longer able to get away with anything with the governments ability to surveillance every nook and cranny? All necessary for the safety of society and for the security of the public. Maybe then, we'd have no Rittenhouse's or Ahmaud Arbery's or crime where the criminal simply walking away disappearing into the crowd.

Just imagine if Joe Biden had foreseen this need coming and had included a national video surveillance program in his BBB agenda? Well, we know that Fox News would call this communism or socialism or a government takeover, and so would the followers. They would not like this one bit because it would mean the end to their terrorism, the end to their insurrections, and the end to their vigilante tactics. We the people know who you are and we know what you did. We know what you did, Donald Trump.

Despite my exaggerated narrative, and only considering the issue of the video surveillance, maybe we need this? And to say we need this "especially now" is to admit that we will definitely need this in the near future. I mean, we all know that things will only get worse, a lot worse, and the very security of America will demand that we know what everyone is up to and what everyone has been involved in. Think about it.... we have a potentially extremely violent election coming up, actually two, and as the movie title goes THERE WILL BE BLOOD. For the sake of national security, law enforcement, and the courts.... our government will need to know exactly what people have been up to, who the criminals are, where they ran off to, and where they are hiding.
 

Lezunto

Member
Oct 24, 2020
168
87
61
It does not matter who wants total surveillance. It will be used only against certain people and when it matters, the footage will mysteriously be fuzzy, missing crucial moments or the cameras will be turned off.

In a way, we already have this with increasingly reliance on background checks, cyber and satellite communications. People always want to believe the worst about individuals.

If it's not there, it can be faked.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,722
3,897
126
It seems inevitable. Creating proper Legal/Privacy/Ethical boundaries to prevent abuse will take time and probably will produce some bad situations until accomplished.
 

gothuevos

Senior member
Jul 28, 2010
831
545
136
No it will just be like that Black Mirror episode where everything you see is recorded.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,036
878
126
It seems inevitable. Creating proper Legal/Privacy/Ethical boundaries to prevent abuse will take time and probably will produce some bad situations until accomplished.
Patriot Act and secret warrants must be new to you. The less surveillance the better because only dictators and authoritarians demand more ways to track people.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
6,974
6,070
136
With all of the violence across America in recent time, the riots, the protests, Rittenhouse, Ahmaud Arbery, and now todays Atlanta airport incident where the guy simply took off and ran away, is it time for America to impose a nationwide video surveillance program much like that in China?

Video surveillance is the decider in many a court cases, that is... when video surveillance is available. And the police are required to wear video cams, and every self respecting business has full video surveillance installed outside, and in. But is that enough? It looks like America should, and probably will have no option but to commit the money and the resources and the funding to make America the worlds number one video surveillance nation. So much so where an individual, any and every individual, can be tracked using video surveillance wherever one might venture to "within public". From the point of entering one's car parked in the driveway, or one leaving the front door. No matter who, where, or when... as long as that person is outside exposed in public then they will be under video surveillance.

Imagine, no longer able to get away with anything with the governments ability to surveillance every nook and cranny? All necessary for the safety of society and for the security of the public. Maybe then, we'd have no Rittenhouse's or Ahmaud Arbery's or crime where the criminal simply walking away disappearing into the crowd.

Just imagine if Joe Biden had foreseen this need coming and had included a national video surveillance program in his BBB agenda? Well, we know that Fox News would call this communism or socialism or a government takeover, and so would the followers. They would not like this one bit because it would mean the end to their terrorism, the end to their insurrections, and the end to their vigilante tactics. We the people know who you are and we know what you did. We know what you did, Donald Trump.

Despite my exaggerated narrative, and only considering the issue of the video surveillance, maybe we need this? And to say we need this "especially now" is to admit that we will definitely need this in the near future. I mean, we all know that things will only get worse, a lot worse, and the very security of America will demand that we know what everyone is up to and what everyone has been involved in. Think about it.... we have a potentially extremely violent election coming up, actually two, and as the movie title goes THERE WILL BE BLOOD. For the sake of national security, law enforcement, and the courts.... our government will need to know exactly what people have been up to, who the criminals are, where they ran off to, and where they are hiding.
I think this is probably right, ultimately. It's kind of an upside-down 1984. Instead of the State watching everyone to keep everyone in line, it's going to be up to everyone to record the State to make sure they're acting in line.

Especially once the Republicans have nullified the voting process and use the police and military to suppress protests against fascism.

Ubiquitous cameras, file compression and streaming/cloud storage will help identify State abuse, but Republicans will be looking to China for ideas and strategies to limit and restrict those abuses from being broadcast elsewhere.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,722
3,897
126
Patriot Act and secret warrants must be new to you. The less surveillance the better because only dictators and authoritarians demand more ways to track people.
I agree that less is better. That won't ensure that "Less" is achieved though. Which is why limiting frameworks need to exist.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
49,051
10,570
136
Patriot Act and secret warrants must be new to you. The less surveillance the better because only dictators and authoritarians demand more ways to track people.
Better put that smartphone down then!

But seriously, you completely misunderstand the issue, as usual. The trend in surveillance is not govts, but with private citizens. Everyone has a smartphone with a camera, more and more houses and most businesses have cameras, and dashcams are increasingly popular.
And that's not authoritarian, quite the opposite.

BTW, how do you reconcile your opinions with the prior administration's massive surveillance programs? I mean, you do understand that Peter Thiel, the head of Palantir, the company that actually does track everyone for the fed govt, heavily backed Trump for a reason, right? You do know that the anti-mask campaigns were backed by the companies that own the facial recognition technologies, right?
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
18,833
5,806
136
I think this is probably right, ultimately. It's kind of an upside-down 1984. Instead of the State watching everyone to keep everyone in line, it's going to be up to everyone to record the State to make sure they're acting in line.

Especially once the Republicans have nullified the voting process and use the police and military to suppress protests against fascism.

Ubiquitous cameras, file compression and streaming/cloud storage will help identify State abuse, but Republicans will be looking to China for ideas and strategies to limit and restrict those abuses from being broadcast elsewhere.
That's why the car camera thing came out of Russia. To protect themselves from the state.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
13,622
10,524
136
If I was a progressive or an American American, I would not trust surveillance when in the hands of the right leaning police nor in any jurisdiction run by Republicans. Ultimately progressives and blacks need personal body cams always backing up to the cloud, where corrupt conservatives can't tamper with it.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
28,895
14,943
136
I saw a story where cops turned off their body cams before beating up a black man.

If it weren't for recordings Derick Chauvin would have gone free. Why? Black people are not given the same credibility by the CJS

Recordings didn't even help for...

John Crawford
Tamir Rice
Eric Garner
Philando Castilo
 
Last edited:

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
13,622
10,524
136
I saw a story where cops turned off their body cams before beating up a black man.

If it weren't for recordings Derick Chauvin would have gone free. Why? Black people are given the same credibility by the CJS

Recordings didn't even help for...

John Crawford
Tamir Rice
Eric Garner
Philando Castilo
Or Rodney King. I mean he lived, but they got convicted of nothing.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
34,590
13,590
146
I saw a story where cops turned off their body cams before beating up a black man.

If it weren't for recordings Derick Chauvin would have gone free. Why? Black people are given the same credibility by the CJS

Recordings didn't even help for...

John Crawford
Tamir Rice
Eric Garner
Philando Castilo
Body cameras should be mandatory, turning it off should be immediate termination and forfeiture of all benefits.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,662
21,781
146
maybe. living among so many violent and murderous conservatives isn't how I originally expected the next decades of my life to pan out, but that is the reality on the ground.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,985
13,953
126
Surveillance is not the necessity. The necessity is a much better country where we dont need constant surveillance. Unfortunately any time we try to do something that might actually make America a better place, the fucking republicans block it, or disobey it.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,395
163
106
I think I want a car camera, a coworkers kid got in a car accident while driving, according to the teenager 'on a scooter at night' it was entirely the drivers fault
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,662
21,781
146
Surveillance is not the necessity. The necessity is a much better country where we dont need constant surveillance. Unfortunately any time we try to do something that might actually make America a better place, the fucking republicans block it, or disobey it.
4 decades of the republican direct assault on education and mental health (keep everyone dumb and terrified; shut down the mental institutions, flood the streets with the sick, unleash the police to murder them), has worked well at keeping their supporters in line, and as violent and obedient as their masters require.

I mean, just look at these sociopaths. 74 million of them voted for an ambulatory cucumber that literally stole their pensions in front of them, and they begged for more. This country is filled with such diseased people. They have no capacity for critical thought, and they are only getting more terrified and more violent.

Just look at these forums--we've got one nutjob that creams his sheets at night just thinking about murdering babies. What the fuck? All of this is actually real.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
17,545
7,099
136
I record most of my day… sound only, you never know… its like the dashcam but with audio for the bio-vehicle
 

Harry_Wild

Senior member
Dec 14, 2012
571
59
91
Just watch again the surveillance action drama - Person Of Interest! That is were we are heading with Mr. "X" controlling society through technology and social media behind the scenes.
 

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