The muslim view of women..... have a question

thespeakerbox

Platinum Member
Nov 19, 2004
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What, in your opinion is the muslim view of women - meaning how they should be treated.

Someone at work went off today on how they beat women, treat them like crap, i mean , she really made a scene at the restaurant. We just ended entire lunch because it upset so many people.

What is the true view of muslims on this issue?

I honestly dont want this to get out of hand, and if this post is offensive to others, let me know.
 

AreaCode707

Lifer
Sep 21, 2001
18,440
101
91
Originally posted by: thespeakerbox

I honestly dont want this to get out of hand, and if this post is offensive to others, let me know.

Hopefully the people who would normal point fingers view this as a chance to educate rather than start a flame war.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
My personal opinion is:
They dont treat women well and they dont repect them.
That goes for the religion itself and many of the people who follow it.
 

burr4392

Member
Mar 4, 2004
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In short - A great many tend to treat women with little respect, IMO.

I have been living and working in Bahrain for the past 18 months. I have made a great many observations in this time and spoken to quite a few Bahraini ladies about this topic, mainly those near my own age group (20-25). To give you an idea....

If a Bahraini man is seen walking with a european lady or any lady for that matter (even bahraini), the attitude is "way to go man!" or "Nice!" However, if a Bahraini lady is seen just walking next to say an American the assumption is that she is a slut. No questions. Slut period. So if they are seen just walking with an american by a member of their family/extended family they can get in a lot of trouble. Which can mean... beatings, loss of their car, etc or worse. I personally know of one young lady who was nearly killed by her father when she asked what they though of her dating an american. BTW She is 21. And even though 21 is the age when they are considered their own woman by the government, if a young lady were to move out they would automatically be labeled a slut unless they were married, even if they lived alone.

All of the girls I have spoken with absolutely hate the double standard. They just want to be able to go out and see their friends, hang out, go to bars/clubs, whatever, without being automatically labeled a slut.

The joys of living here!
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
Originally posted by: burr4392
In short - A great many tend to treat women with little respect, IMO.

I have been living and working in Bahrain for the past 18 months. I have made a great many observations in this time and spoken to quite a few Bahraini ladies about this topic, mainly those near my own age group (20-25). To give you an idea....

If a Bahraini man is seen walking with a european lady or any lady for that matter (even bahraini), the attitude is "way to go man!" or "Nice!" However, if a Bahraini lady is seen just walking next to say an American the assumption is that she is a slut. No questions. Slut period. So if they are seen just walking with an american by a member of their family/extended family they can get in a lot of trouble. Which can mean... beatings, loss of their car, etc or worse. I personally know of one young lady who was nearly killed by her father when she asked what they though of her dating an american. BTW She is 21. And even though 21 is the age when they are considered their own woman by the government, if a young lady were to move out they would automatically be labeled a slut unless they were married, even if they lived alone.

All of the girls I have spoken with absolutely hate the double standard. They just want to be able to go out and see their friends, hang out, go to bars/clubs, whatever, without being automatically labeled a slut.

The joys of living here!

It's better there than over the causeway...
 

JohnSpencer01

Junior Member
Jan 19, 2007
6
0
0
ok lets get this straight, i'm a muslim and islamically women should be treated the same as men! No where does it say that women are second class citizens or that they should lead a secluded life.

What you see in the real world is more to do with culture aspect of these countries, these people treat women like servants, i dont know why this happens and wouldnt even like to go in to the whole debate.

I just thought that i'd shed some light in to this, oh and for the record what you see happening in this world under the banner of islam has nothing to do with the real islam, its more about people and their greed for power and money.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,713
12
56
Originally posted by: JohnSpencer01
ok lets get this straight, i'm a muslim and islamically women should be treated the same as men! No where does it say that women are second class citizens or that they should lead a secluded life.

What you see in the real world is more to do with culture aspect of these countries, these people treat women like servants, i dont know why this happens and wouldnt even like to go in to the whole debate.

I just thought that i'd shed some light in to this, oh and for the record what you see happening in this world under the banner of islam has nothing to do with the real islam, its more about people and their greed for power and money.
thanks!

i think most of us realize we hear much more about muslim extremists who are the minority of the Muslim community than about people like yourself.

 

6000SUX

Golden Member
May 8, 2005
1,504
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Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: JohnSpencer01
ok lets get this straight, i'm a muslim and islamically women should be treated the same as men! No where does it say that women are second class citizens or that they should lead a secluded life.

What you see in the real world is more to do with culture aspect of these countries, these people treat women like servants, i dont know why this happens and wouldnt even like to go in to the whole debate.

I just thought that i'd shed some light in to this, oh and for the record what you see happening in this world under the banner of islam has nothing to do with the real islam, its more about people and their greed for power and money.
thanks!

i think most of us realize we hear much more about muslim extremists who are the minority of the Muslim community than about people like yourself.

True, but his post is far from establishing that the majority view of all muslims is that women should be treated equally. If I were forced to guess, at this moment, I'd guess that the majority view is that women are inferior. (Also, extremists are usually going to be in the minority by definition...)
 

thespeakerbox

Platinum Member
Nov 19, 2004
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What i want to know is the view of Islam based on some of their scripture. Does any of their scripture/sacred texts etc, actually say women should be treated unequal - not in the sense of financial matters, inheritance, etc but rather culturally.

Someone yesterday blew up saying " THEIR BIBLE TELL THEM TO BEAT AND TREAT WOMEN LIKE SLAVES" ....i just didnt buy it so easily.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,778
126
Originally posted by: leftyman
thus enforcing my belief that all religions suck.
I believe that too! We should get together some time and talk about it. You busy Sunday at 10:30am?
 
May 31, 2001
15,326
1
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Originally posted by: JohnSpencer01
ok lets get this straight, i'm a muslim and islamically women should be treated the same as men! No where does it say that women are second class citizens or that they should lead a secluded life.

What you see in the real world is more to do with culture aspect of these countries, these people treat women like servants, i dont know why this happens and wouldnt even like to go in to the whole debate.

I just thought that i'd shed some light in to this, oh and for the record what you see happening in this world under the banner of islam has nothing to do with the real islam, its more about people and their greed for power and money.

What about Muslims born and raised in the U.S. that act this way? I had a former co-worker that was like this.
 

leftyman

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2000
7,076
3
81
Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
Originally posted by: leftyman
thus enforcing my belief that all religions suck.
I believe that too! We should get together some time and talk about it. You busy Sunday at 10:30am?

Sundays are free. :)
 

imported_cheapdude

Senior member
Mar 4, 2007
423
0
0
I think statistically they have a higher rate of women abuse, that and the koreans.
Most of my korean friend have some kind of domestic violence problem where their dad will smack their mom around quite a bit.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
A common problem is that the Islamic view of women is misconstrued as the cultural view of women in parts of the world where Islam is the dominant religion. However, the two are not one and the same.

The fourth "chapter" of the Koran, which is canon for the Islamic faith (the be-all and end-all, stands alone and trumps all priests) is entitled The Women. That chapter itself doesn't get into the actual status of women as equals, but that's laid out explicitly as well. Keep in mind that the Koran is a book to be taken literally.

Oddly, that chapter of the Koran does authorize men to beat women, which is something I doubted until the Koran on my bookshelf confirmed what the online version said (verse 4:34). Ah well. :p
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
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My dad was muslim for a quite some time... dropped like a bad habit after about 10 years or so because of his experiences in the middle east and even in the US.

Muslims in the US, Canada, and EU have to treat their women with respect... you hit your wife in the US you are, at best, going to be divorced and lose your house...at worst, you'll serve some time.

In muslim dominated countries, women are generally treated like ****** and it is often encouraged in Islamic teaching. It may not be "the Koran", but it is what is commonly taught and practiced in the middle east.

When I start hearing Muslim's in the US, Canada, EU unite and openly and publicly condemn (in no uncertain terms) the treatment of women in middle eastern societies (where applicable), then I'll believe that muslims in these countries really think the treatment of women in certain ME societies is wrong. As of yet, I am unconvinced
 

TheWart

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2000
5,219
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I recommend the book Infidel, by Ayaan Hirsi Ali....highly interesting read, and she deals a lot with this subject (she is a Somali-born ex-Muslim)
 

hookinitup

Member
Jan 26, 2005
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0
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Originally posted by: yllus
....

Oddly, that chapter of the Koran does authorize men to beat women, which is something I doubted until the Koran on my bookshelf confirmed what the online version said (verse 4:34). Ah well. :p

This needs to be put into context. The lives of all the prophets (Muhammad, Moses, Jesus, etc, peace be upon them all) are used as examples of how to put what the Qur'an says into practice. Alot of scholars are asked to explain what the above poster mentioned. They use the example of one of the prophets (i forget which one, i'll update later) who was upset with his wife and procured an extremely long and thin stick, which he held at one end and tapped his wife with the other end.

In essence, "the beating" is supposed to be symbolic in nature as a means to express the husbands extreme displeasure at his wife.

When Islam was introduced it instituted great advances in the area of womens rights. At the time in many areas of the world infanticide was liberally practiced, which is the practice of killing babies after birth. This was generally done to control the gender of the offspring, i.e. a girl was thought of being just another mouth to feed and killed as a matter of convenience. Islam forbade this from its inception, and also established her role in being able to establish contracts, own land, etc. In comparison the right of women to own land in England, France and USA was only granted in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Ultimately, most of what you hear about the treatment of women in arabia this day and age does not reflect what Islam teaches. However, in places like India and Malaysia the representation is more accurate.

cliffs:
a person will think what they want to regardless of the facts.
 

JohnSpencer01

Junior Member
Jan 19, 2007
6
0
0
lol i hear ya people, Islam dictates that paradis elies under the feet of mothers, and he who disobeys or hurts his own mother will never enter heaven, it also says in the Koran that a husband who doesnt treat his wife with respect and doesnt treat her the same as he likes to be treated will also never enter heaven.

The problem we have is that islam in predominant in countries where there has allways been a problem with women being abuse and treated like filth.

anyway religion or not, those who mistreat women should have their bawls chopped off lol!
 

tmc

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2001
1,116
1
81
go here:

http://www.justlanded.com

see the info. on any of the middle east countries.

samples:

- a man can have upto 4 wives
- man can divorce very easily, but very difficult for women

pathetic, IMHO.
 

6000SUX

Golden Member
May 8, 2005
1,504
0
0
Originally posted by: JohnSpencer01
lol i hear ya people, Islam dictates that paradis elies under the feet of mothers, and he who disobeys or hurts his own mother will never enter heaven, it also says in the Koran that a husband who doesnt treat his wife with respect and doesnt treat her the same as he likes to be treated will also never enter heaven.

The problem we have is that islam in predominant in countries where there has allways been a problem with women being abuse and treated like filth.

anyway religion or not, those who mistreat women should have their bawls chopped off lol!

Aren't there numerous places in the Quran explicitly stating that women are not equal to men?
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
When I start hearing Muslim's in the US, Canada, EU unite and openly and publicly condemn (in no uncertain terms) the treatment of women in middle eastern societies (where applicable), then I'll believe that muslims in these countries really think the treatment of women in certain ME societies is wrong. As of yet, I am unconvinced

Good point.