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Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: aidanjm
Also, your approach is unbalanced. For example, there are people (in positions to know) saying the 1993 case was a frame job perpetrated by the LA (?) police department.

I trust that you have a valid, reputable link source to tell us all about the "frame-up job"?

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: Grunt03
the sad thing about the entire situation, no matter what good MJ has done in the past, no matter how many children he helped, the current situation will forever change the way people look, treat and react to MJ.
He and he alone has created this situation, I wonder where all of the staff were? You know the body guards, his manager, any of the ones who are traveling with him. Oh wait they are there for the ride and for the money.

I think that should MJ survive this one, he should fire everyone on his staff, and start fresh.

I know I would.....

One other thing: He should never, *ever* invite another child to Neverland and should *never* contribute a DIME to helping another one again. IF he's innocent, of course.

Jason
 

Grunt03

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2000
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I dont know if I would agree that it was a set up, perhaps things were tampered with, but a set up is reaching a bit.

 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
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Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Also, your approach is unbalanced. For example, there are people (in positions to know) saying the 1993 case was a frame job perpetrated by the LA (?) police department.

I trust that you have a valid, reputable link source to tell us all about the "frame-up job"?

Jason

I guess I could google and try to find the link. But why bother - no-one else is bothering to back up their fact claims in this thread. :disgust:
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
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Son of Jackson maid says tickling escalated to fondling

Monday, April 4, 2005

SANTA MARIA, California (CNN) -- The son of Michael Jackson's former personal maid testified Monday that Jackson initiated tickling sessions which escalated to the pop star fondling the boy -- after which Jackson would give him a $100 bill and tell him not to tell his mother about the money.

The young man, now 24, told jurors in Jackson's child molestation trial that the first incident took place when he was about 7 years old, at Jackson's apartment hideaway in Hollywood.

The young man said he told no one about what had happened until he was 13 -- about two years after his mother stopped working for Jackson -- when investigators looking into other allegations against Jackson interviewed him.

After finally revealing what had happened, he said went into counseling until he was 18.

"It took a lot of counseling to get over," he said -- a remark that was stricken after the defense objected.

His family later reached an out-of-court settlement with Jackson, before a lawsuit was filed, but he said he wasn't consulted about the legal action. He did not reveal the amount of the settlement; the trial judge had earlier ruled jurors could be told previous cases were settled, but not for how much.

The testimony came during the beginning of the sixth week of testimony in the singer's child molestation trial. Jackson was indicted last April by a state grand jury on 10 felony counts for incidents that allegedly occurred in February and March 2003.

The 46-year-old singer is accused of molesting a boy -- now 15 years old -- at Neverland Ranch, giving him alcohol and conspiring to hold the boy's family captive in 2003.

Jackson has pleaded not guilty to the charges.

Tearful testimony

Nervous and emotional, Monday's witness, who now works as a youth counselor and pastor, grew tearful and his voice broke as he described what he says happened with Jackson more than 15 years ago.

"This is going to be hard for me to get through. I'm sorry," he said at one point.

The witness described three incidents of alleged fondling by Jackson:

When he was about 7, at Jackson's Hollywood apartment, Jackson started tickling him, and the boy started tickling Jackson back. But at some point, Jackson began tickling "my little private region around my crotch area," above his clothes. He said he was laughing from the tickling and thought to himself that "I'm laughing too much."

Several weeks later, Jackson initiated another tickling session leading to genital contact, after sending his mother the store. The witness said he thought to himself that "it's not right." Jackson, as he had after the first alleged incident, gave him a $100 bill, the young man said.

When he was 10, he and Jackson were alone together in a loft in the arcade at Neverland Ranch when Jackson began tickling him while they were in a "spooning" position together on a couch. This time, he said, Jackson reached into his shorts and fondled his testicles, in an episode that lasted two or three minutes. He said Jackson did not give him money on this occasion.

The former maid's son was the first of nine witnesses the prosecution plans to call in an effort to show Jackson had a pattern of grooming young boys for sexual abuse.

Over strong defense objections, Santa Barbara County Superior Court Judge Rodney Melville has allowed prosecutors to present evidence about prior allegations, which date back more than a decade and involve five boys between 10 and 13 whom Jackson allegedly singled out.

The young man who testified Monday will be the only one of the five who will testify. Santa Barbara County District Attorney Tom Sneddon said details of Jackson's conduct toward the other four boys, including child movie star Macaulay Culkin, would come from third-party witnesses who say they witnessed improper behavior.

Culkin, now 24, has said that nothing of a sexual nature happened between him and Jackson. He has not been called as a witness by either side, according to his publicist, and he has expressed a strong desire not to become involved in the case.


House manager says he served alcohol

Earlier Monday, the former house manager at Jackson's Neverland Ranch testified he saw the pop star intoxicated in the presence of children "quite a few times" and once saw him emerge from the ranch's arcade with a group of drunk boys. The arcade has a wine cellar in the basement.

Jesus Salas also told jurors that on one occasion, he took a bottle of wine and four glasses to Jackson's bedroom, where he was staying with several children, including his teenage accuser in the current criminal case and the boy's younger brother.

However, Salas also said Jackson ordered sodas in addition to the wine. When prosecutor Gordon Auchincloss pointed out that he had not mentioned sodas in his police statement about the incident, Salas responded, "It just flipped up into my mind."

Salas also said that while he saw Jackson intoxicated, he didn't see him actually drink. The former manager also said that he once saw Jackson's accuser intoxicated at Neverland at a time when Jackson wasn't there.

Salas described Jackson's oversight of the ranch as hands-on, saying his level of control was "very high." He said Jackson approved all guests who stayed there, including children, and that most of the kids who stayed were boys around 10 or 11 years old.

Salas also said that during a period of time the prosecution alleges the accuser and his family were being held against their will at Neverland in February 2003, the boy's mother never complained about being held captive. Family members left the ranch twice and came back, before leaving for good the third time, he said.

In the first departure, Salas said, he drove the mother, at her request, to Los Angeles in a Rolls Royce. During the ride, she complained about two Jackson associates but said she respected and liked the pop star, Salas said.

On the two subsequent departures, he did not drive the family from the ranch himself because, "I was told not to do that anymore." But he did order a limousine for them when the family left the last time.


Jackson's current accuser has testified that on at least two occasions in February or March 2003, Jackson molested him while they were sleeping alone together at his Neverland Ranch. His younger brother testified that he witnessed two other incidents of molestation of the accuser when he walked into Jackson's bedroom.

CNN's Miguel Marquez and Dree De Clamecy contributed to this report.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
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He paid off people in the past. That became public knowlege.
I think the parents who knowingly exposed their children to a complete stranger with this potential history should be equally as responsible, if not moreso. I for one, think that it was done to use their children as pawns, to gain some notoriety or advantage. That truly disgusts me.
I think he is a troubled individual, a real shame considering his past accomplishments and talent. Looking at him,no parent in their right mind would leave their kids with that guy. No way.
 

Grunt03

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2000
3,131
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aidanjm
Monday, April 4, 2005

SANTA MARIA, California (CNN) -- The son of Michael Jackson's former personal maid testified Monday that Jackson initiated tickling sessions which escalated to the pop star fondling the boy -- after which Jackson would give him a $100 bill and tell him not to tell his mother about the money.

The young man, now 24, told jurors in Jackson's child molestation trial that the first incident took place when he was about 7 years old, at Jackson's apartment hideaway in Hollywood.

The young man said he told no one about what had happened until he was 13 -- about two years after his mother stopped working for Jackson -- when investigators looking into other allegations against Jackson interviewed him.

After finally revealing what had happened, he said went into counseling until he was 18.

"It took a lot of counseling to get over," he said -- a remark that was stricken after the defense objected.

His family later reached an out-of-court settlement with Jackson, before a lawsuit was filed, but he said he wasn't consulted about the legal action. He did not reveal the amount of the settlement; the trial judge had earlier ruled jurors could be told previous cases were settled, but not for how much.

The testimony came during the beginning of the sixth week of testimony in the singer's child molestation trial. Jackson was indicted last April by a state grand jury on 10 felony counts for incidents that allegedly occurred in February and March 2003.

The 46-year-old singer is accused of molesting a boy -- now 15 years old -- at Neverland Ranch, giving him alcohol and conspiring to hold the boy's family captive in 2003.

Jackson has pleaded not guilty to the charges.

Tearful testimony

Nervous and emotional, Monday's witness, who now works as a youth counselor and pastor, grew tearful and his voice broke as he described what he says happened with Jackson more than 15 years ago.

"This is going to be hard for me to get through. I'm sorry," he said at one point.

The witness described three incidents of alleged fondling by Jackson:

When he was about 7, at Jackson's Hollywood apartment, Jackson started tickling him, and the boy started tickling Jackson back. But at some point, Jackson began tickling "my little private region around my crotch area," above his clothes. He said he was laughing from the tickling and thought to himself that "I'm laughing too much."

Several weeks later, Jackson initiated another tickling session leading to genital contact, after sending his mother the store. The witness said he thought to himself that "it's not right." Jackson, as he had after the first alleged incident, gave him a $100 bill, the young man said.

When he was 10, he and Jackson were alone together in a loft in the arcade at Neverland Ranch when Jackson began tickling him while they were in a "spooning" position together on a couch. This time, he said, Jackson reached into his shorts and fondled his testicles, in an episode that lasted two or three minutes. He said Jackson did not give him money on this occasion.

The former maid's son was the first of nine witnesses the prosecution plans to call in an effort to show Jackson had a pattern of grooming young boys for sexual abuse.

Over strong defense objections, Santa Barbara County Superior Court Judge Rodney Melville has allowed prosecutors to present evidence about prior allegations, which date back more than a decade and involve five boys between 10 and 13 whom Jackson allegedly singled out.

The young man who testified Monday will be the only one of the five who will testify. Santa Barbara County District Attorney Tom Sneddon said details of Jackson's conduct toward the other four boys, including child movie star Macaulay Culkin, would come from third-party witnesses who say they witnessed improper behavior.

Culkin, now 24, has said that nothing of a sexual nature happened between him and Jackson. He has not been called as a witness by either side, according to his publicist, and he has expressed a strong desire not to become involved in the case.

House manager says he served alcohol

Earlier Monday, the former house manager at Jackson's Neverland Ranch testified he saw the pop star intoxicated in the presence of children "quite a few times" and once saw him emerge from the ranch's arcade with a group of drunk boys. The arcade has a wine cellar in the basement.

Jesus Salas also told jurors that on one occasion, he took a bottle of wine and four glasses to Jackson's bedroom, where he was staying with several children, including his teenage accuser in the current criminal case and the boy's younger brother.

However, Salas also said Jackson ordered sodas in addition to the wine. When prosecutor Gordon Auchincloss pointed out that he had not mentioned sodas in his police statement about the incident, Salas responded, "It just flipped up into my mind."

Salas also said that while he saw Jackson intoxicated, he didn't see him actually drink. The former manager also said that he once saw Jackson's accuser intoxicated at Neverland at a time when Jackson wasn't there.

Salas described Jackson's oversight of the ranch as hands-on, saying his level of control was "very high." He said Jackson approved all guests who stayed there, including children, and that most of the kids who stayed were boys around 10 or 11 years old.

Salas also said that during a period of time the prosecution alleges the accuser and his family were being held against their will at Neverland in February 2003, the boy's mother never complained about being held captive. Family members left the ranch twice and came back, before leaving for good the third time, he said.

In the first departure, Salas said, he drove the mother, at her request, to Los Angeles in a Rolls Royce. During the ride, she complained about two Jackson associates but said she respected and liked the pop star, Salas said.

On the two subsequent departures, he did not drive the family from the ranch himself because, "I was told not to do that anymore." But he did order a limousine for them when the family left the last time.

Jackson's current accuser has testified that on at least two occasions in February or March 2003, Jackson molested him while they were sleeping alone together at his Neverland Ranch. His younger brother testified that he witnessed two other incidents of molestation of the accuser when he walked into Jackson's bedroom.

CNN's Miguel Marquez and Dree De Clamecy contributed to this report.

The problem I have with this si that most of these people who are being called back have done one of the two.

1. They have received money from MJ in some form of settlement. Allowing them to apperar in court and make statements should not be allowed. If they would like to see justice done, then give away all of the settlement money or return it to MJ. Then they have the right to speak out.

2. They have tried to get money from MJ. Most of his former workers have taken him to court and tried to get paid but in the end lost.

The sick thing about the entire situation is the parents of the children.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
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Originally posted by: Tabb
Jackon Showered with 8 year old

Disgusting...

that article raises more questions than it answers:


Who knows what she actually saw?:

Interrogated at length about how she knew who was in the shower when the door was clouded, the witness said she was certain that she saw "Mr. Jackson and little kid" through the steam.


What are her motives in testifying against Jackson? (has she benefitted financially):

"The former maid testified as part of a prosecution effort to show that the pop star had a pattern of molesting or otherwise behaving inappropriately with other boys. The woman's own son received a $2.4 million settlement from Jackson in 1994 after claiming the pop star groped him."


Changing stories:

"Under cross-examination Tuesday, he acknowledged in his 1993 interview that he initially said Jackson did not molest him. Mesereau asked whether investigators became aggressive and began calling Jackson a "molester" and cursing. The witness said he did not remember details of the interview. "It was only after you were pushed real hard by the sheriffs that you began to say anything like that," Mesereau said.


Culkin has apparently denied ever having been molested by Jackson - however the prosecution are using him as one of the 5 boys allegedly abused by Jackson:

Although the prosecution was allowed to present testimony about Culkin, the defense has asserted that the "Home Alone" star has denied being molested.


 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
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It's interesting that the boys he is supposedly molesting are not actually teenagers... they are more in the 8-10 year old range. So if the allegations are true, his "preferences" or orientation can accurately be described as pedophilic (i.e., attracted to pre-teenage children).
 

RobCur

Banned
Oct 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: piasabird
Why make excuses for some rich guy????

Funny how you envied bill gates but you treat michael differently. He's rich because he can do what most cannot, and that's sing and dance like their's no tomorrow.
I think that someone is going to keep screwing with him until he is dead broke. Hell, it's not even funny. I know it happen to regular people like me and you as well who have just some savings for a rainy day and it's all gone due to word of mouth, a scam.
Last, would you want this to happen to you if you have a lot of money and some who knows about it will do anything to get it, be it " lies, spreading rumors about you."
 

RobCur

Banned
Oct 4, 2002
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I think this thread has lost it's steam, RIP :)
rose.gif
 

Yellow Dog

Banned
Apr 1, 2005
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doesn't even warrent the attention that it receives here much less the media's obcession over the story.
 

Grunt03

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2000
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thanks to all of you for making this such an interesting post...

On to the next one.........