the mcse is a great marketing effort.

[hans007]

so , at work i do web development part time for internal pages.

and well, i use php, postgres, mysql yada yada.

now all our servers are running windows 2000 terminal server or 2003. and our IT people really want to put sql server on there.

a lot of other people i know at other companies, always here a big amount of fuss about , moving to asp.net or sql server if they are on apache/linux etc. and usually the push is from IT or CTOs etc.


so i figured its the mcse and microsoft. they just have all these MCSE cert types who get all these free tshirts and msdn junk etc, and they are basically like this squad of cheerleaders. now i know thers tons of mcses who are really open minded and really know what they are doing but there are a much larger quantity who dont.

that said, it is like an extra built in reason to be on Microsoft stuff. its always the recommended thing gbecause the mcse is probably one of the easier certs to get. and everyone is familiar with it. i mean postgres is probably as good as sql server and it is free, and most unix servers are even more stable but most people dont know how to set it up.

i actually had an argument with my IT guy, since i said we needed to use postgres so i could have sub selects and a few other things. then he asked me WHAT postgres was. he also said we should use ASP because "it might be difficult to install php i am not sure how hard that is to do".

anyway that is my theory. / rant.

 

[AdamSnow]

Back in the NT4 days, MCSE was an amazing certification to have...

Now, it seems that everyone and their dog has their MCSE, and 90% of them don't know anything about the systems they want to work on...

 

[ZoomStop]

Just proves a point (as if it needs any more) that certifications are worthless if you need people that actually know what the hell they are doing.
Some people like dumping tons of money and system downtime into micro$oft.
Give me mySQL & PHP anyday.

 

[GrammatonJP]

got mine in 98.. right out of college... now it's worthless.. tought i wouldn't mind taking a look at the text for next gen os (vista stuff)..

when I took my mcse.. the guy next to me was a chef.. he thinks after taking the exam he can make 90k.. i was dying.

 

[NissanGurl]

I know this has been posted before, but it fits this thread so well:
Enjoy

 

[tfinch2]

ASP has benefits over PHP if you are looking for the bloat and constant handholding that MS provides.

 

[classy]

Easy cert to get, lol, let me guess you DON'T have one? Hmm everyone and their dog has one? There have been a little over 700,000 total mcse certs awarded, that includes all NT, 2000, and 2003 worldwide. There are more than 10 million people who work in IT in the US alone. Probably more than 20 million worldwide. So that means less than 10% of the IT workforce has earned a MCSE certification. Let me repeat that is less than 10%. But I know you guys meet one around every corner :roll:

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: classy
There have been a little over 700,000 total mcse certs awarded, that includes all NT, 2000, and 2003 worldwide.
There are more than 10 million people who work in IT in the US alone.

Apparently 9.3M of them are freaking liars.

 

[Koing]

That IT guy doesn't seem to know much...

Koing

 

[mk52]

BIAS is everywhere, I hear just as much nonsense form PHP\linux fanbois as from MS guys. People just love to complain....

If you've every tried to use ASP.NET\IIS you'll see that it's just as stable and fast as PHP\Apache combinations. Now I personally am much more productive on .NET and the new bells and whistles SQL2005, ATLAS, .... make my life a lot easier. Some people just love to hammer code all day to tweak out 0.05% more speed.

Both platform are very capable and fast, in this day and age it should only matter which one can deliver a product faster (RAD).

 

[classy]

This is what I don't get. I live in NJ, the tri-state region, one of the most densely populated areas in the country. I have work in several IT departments and all have been at companies with at least 1200 or so people. One even had around 10,000 poeple in it with 300 or so IT folks in it. I have personally spoken with 150 or so folks over the last 3-4 years and out of all of the places I have been, people I meant in classes, work, family, and job interviews, I can say I met a whopping 11 people who claimed to possess a MCSE cert. That's it. 2 of them were NT and one was an admin interviewing me. One guy who claimed to be a 2000 mcse, I don't really believe he was. That's it. I see a couple dozen or so top companies that get couple hundred apps a day probably, that when they advertise many many times specifically ask for a person to be MCSE certified. So all this I meet one around every corner is bs. Ain't no damn way, because if that was true I would be seeing the same thing.

 

[TreyRandom]

Most of the techs I know are not MCSE-certified.

That being said, those who certify thinking that they're going to be given a huge salary are in for a rude awakening. Certifications are great, and they can get your resume noticed... but they can't hold a candle to real-world experience.

 

[classy]

I did some more depth checking and got some better numbers. My numbers are high but my percentages are close to what I stated before. In the US alone there are 3.472 million people who have been classified IT professionals. Worldwide the IT numbers appear to be between 10-15 million. I am not able to find out how many people are MCSE certified in the US. I would assume that probably 45-50% probably come from the US, which would make approximately 10% of the US IT professionals are MCSE certified which clearly debunks the idea one is around every corner. And consider this Microsoft has 55% (as of 2002) or more of the server OS market and over 90% of the desktop enviroment. IT professionals had an unemployment rate of 2.5% in the US, which is very good. There is about a 720,000 people who earned a MCSE cert. That includes all NT, 2000, and 2003 MCSE. 2003 is still less than 45K.

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: tfinch2
ASP has benefits over PHP if you are looking for the bloat and constant handholding that MS provides.

i think the one real benefit using something like asp.net has is if you use c# or something its a pretty powerful language, not to mention visual studio is about the best IDE one can program in.

that said, asp3 or asp classic sucks balls. it isnt even really easy to use or quick to script in.

and i'd have to say mysql really isnt perfect either. it has a lot of things missing that postgres provides. seeing as postgres is also free , might as well just use that.


and no, i don't have an MCSE. i do have a degree, not to mention i'm a software engineer, so the mcse doesn't really apply.

that said having worked with tons of microsoft free tshirt wearers (i went to a school that microsoft gave free MS everything to including retail box vs6 pro) i tend to think they really are just marketing their products, since a lot of their stuff is vastly inferior, but with so many "decision makers" having MS certs and free tshirts swaying them you end up forced to use it.

and as much as i dont like it, the IT guy no matter how uninformed he is, usually is the decision maker as he has the ear of whatever cto / vp he works for. don't get me wrong there are good IT guys. but the mcse, all microsoft or nothing, ms shirt wearing ones are basically just microsoft sales reps.

 

[rh71]

For some managers/small companies, they want to see those letters before feeling right about paying you your higher salary. It doesn't make it right, but that's the way business goes. Some people simply certify to cross a barrier.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: classy
Easy cert to get, lol, let me guess you DON'T have one? Hmm everyone and their dog has one? There have been a little over 700,000 total mcse certs awarded, that includes all NT, 2000, and 2003 worldwide. There are more than 10 million people who work in IT in the US alone. Probably more than 20 million worldwide. So that means less than 10% of the IT workforce has earned a MCSE certification. Let me repeat that is less than 10%. But I know you guys meet one around every corner :roll:

One tenth of a workforce is huge.

Looks at the stats of how many people carry a CCIE, or CISSP, or even a GIAC cert.

I do have to state that understanding a windows network inside and out and properly maintaining one is very valuable (Active Directory, security policies, DNS, etc.) - the problem is that most windows networks are setup poorly and maintained poorly but still work.

Even still, behold the Power of Microsoft Certs!