The many-worlds interpretation, quantum suicide, and living forever

[Leros]

According to the many-worlds interpretation, every possible outcome of every event exists in its own world. There is a world for every possible outcome of every possible thing.

According to the article on quantum suicide, if one were to die due to a chance occurrence, then there would be two worlds where both outcomes occurred. In one world, you would die and in the other you would live. In the world where you survive, it would seem to you that nothing happened.

There are events that occur in our life that cause us to die. For each of these events, there exists a world where the event did not happen. It would seem that there exists at least one world, where none of these death-causing events happened and you are still alive.

I think I am correct in saying that there is a world where you will be alive forever. Thus, to your perception, you will never die.

 

[Gatt]

But the first problem is what is conciousness(Mind) and can it "Die".

That has yet to be determined, and until it is, your postulate isn't entirely correct. If conciousness exist beyond the body ceasing to function, then technically you can't die, and you'll always be alive forever.

 

[DyslexicHobo]

Originally posted by: Gatt
But the first problem is what is conciousness(Mind) and can it "Die".

That has yet to be determined, and until it is, your postulate isn't entirely correct. If conciousness exist beyond the body ceasing to function, then technically you can't die, and you'll always be alive forever.

But if you consider dying only in a physical sense (brain stops), then it's a pretty interesting thought. In my opinion, a little bit useless to think about, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[CSMR]

First of all there is no life in quantum mechanics. But if you associated "living for ever" with some zero-probability quantum mechanical event then the answer would not be defined. The so-called many worlds "interpretation" just instead of using the word "state space" uses the phrase "set of worlds". Now you can take out any event from the state space or add any event with probability zero without affecting the probabilistic conclusions of the theory. So whether "living for ever" is given any events or not in the state space or equivalently in the "set of worlds" is not something that the theory defines.

 

[KingGheedora]

Originally posted by: Leros

I think I am correct in saying that there is a world where you will be alive forever. Thus, to your perception, you will never die.

Incorrect. Death is not a chance event. It is inevitable. Everyone dies.

 

[Leros]

Originally posted by: KingGheedora

Originally posted by: Leros

I think I am correct in saying that there is a world where you will be alive forever. Thus, to your perception, you will never die.

Incorrect. Death is not a chance event. It is inevitable. Everyone dies.

I'd like to hear you prove that.

 

[KingGheedora]

Aging is not a chance event. What is the probability of a person living 200 years? 300? 1000? 10,000? 1,000,000? Forever?

I am talking out of my ass. But it still seems like everyone dies. Would aging be considered a quantum event? It doesn't seem like it. It's an inevitable process.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: KingGheedora
Aging is not a chance event. What is the probability of a person living 200 years? 300? 1000? 10,000? 1,000,000? Forever?

I am talking out of my ass. But it still seems like everyone dies. Would aging be considered a quantum event? It doesn't seem like it. It's an inevitable process.

'Aging' is largely the result of free radical-driven reactions within the body. Chemical reactions are very much stochastic processes (Google 'collision theory' for the basis of elementary chemical rate laws), so theoretically the free radicals could stick around forever and never react.

But this many-worlds hypothesis has always seemed completely ridiculous to me as a scientific theory, as it is simply not falsifiable (at least, not using any notion currently available to us, nor can I conceive of a case where it might become falsifiable). I would also argue that it breaks Occam's Razor into tiny pieces.

 

[DyslexicHobo]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: KingGheedora
Aging is not a chance event. What is the probability of a person living 200 years? 300? 1000? 10,000? 1,000,000? Forever?

I am talking out of my ass. But it still seems like everyone dies. Would aging be considered a quantum event? It doesn't seem like it. It's an inevitable process.

'Aging' is largely the result of free radical-driven reactions within the body. Chemical reactions are very much stochastic processes (Google 'collision theory' for the basis of elementary chemical rate laws), so theoretically the free radicals could stick around forever and never react.

But this many-worlds hypothesis has always seemed completely ridiculous to me as a scientific theory, as it is simply not falsifiable (at least, not using any notion currently available to us, nor can I conceive of a case where it might become falsifiable). I would also argue that it breaks Occam's Razor into tiny pieces.

But according to the theory, in one world, they would have PROVEN that this theory is false. Correct? So the many worlds interpretation = paradox?

Edit: *Doesn't know anything about this theory, just going off what's been said in this topic *

 

[BionicSniper]

Your thinking of 4th dimension splits

 

[verndewd]

paralell universe theory.Fred Allen wolf wrote a nice book on that.

Actually the theory has abstract relevance in some theological texts including the bible.
But why would I want to go into that? There is only one you,and even in many instances of you all would be different to the degree of bieng unique.

That said, once you die you die;If there is more, youll find out before all of us guessers will.

I believe there is a paralelism in existence;I do not believe its worth tapping into on the basis that its potentially as destructive as it would be interesting. Should we ever get to the place where we can observe it, It could change the very nature of our existence.And we could spend eternity looking for a wormhole out of it.

Now that my daydream on this fantasy has ended; I think the whole Idea is BS.

 

[verndewd]

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: KingGheedora

Originally posted by: Leros

I think I am correct in saying that there is a world where you will be alive forever. Thus, to your perception, you will never die.

Incorrect. Death is not a chance event. It is inevitable. Everyone dies.

I'd like to hear you prove that.

Leros how old are you? will your physical manifestation walk this earth immortally?Have you aged since birth? Will you age beyond function? Or will your mortal shell go back to the soill it was made from as all things on the earth do, Before age removes function?

The proof is existence itself from volcano to erosion to soil to man to the point where bones become dust again. We are breathing neros last breath and men of the future will breath ours.

Death is guaranteed to all men, there is no chance involved. Manner of demise is chance.
.

 

[BladeVenom]

Death is certain only in our reality, in other realities living forever may be possible.

 

[Leros]

Originally posted by: verndewd
Leros how old are you? will your physical manifestation walk this earth immortally?Have you aged since birth? Will you age beyond function? Or will your mortal shell go back to the soill it was made from as all things on the earth do, Before age removes function?

The proof is existence itself from volcano to erosion to soil to man to the point where bones become dust again. We are breathing neros last breath and men of the future will breath ours.

Death is guaranteed to all men, there is no chance involved. Manner of demise is chance.
.

What does my age have to do with anything? Sure, I have aged. Sure, everybody around me has aged. Sure, everybody I know who has gotten really old has died. But that doesn't prove that everybody ages or that everybody dies. It sure seems that they do, but we cannot prove it.

You are not taking a very scientific approach by just saying "well it seems that way so it must be". That was how people came to believe the universe rotated around the earth.

 

[DyslexicHobo]

Death is caused by something wrong with our bodies--that makes our brain stop sending electrical impulses.

This something wrong is something of chance, and the chances do approach 100% but is never certain. In one of these parallel universes, you have made that tiny chance of survival every single time.

Think of it this way: what is the oldest possible age one can live to be? 100? 105? 110? Well whichever you choose, it's possible to live one year longer; there is just a very small chance of that happening, and has never happened in what we know as our universe.

 

[liquid51]

Originally posted by: DyslexicHobo
Death is caused by something wrong with our bodies--that makes our brain stop sending electrical impulses.

This something wrong is something of chance, and the chances do approach 100% but is never certain. In one of these parallel universes, you have made that tiny chance of survival every single time.

Think of it this way: what is the oldest possible age one can live to be? 100? 105? 110? Well whichever you choose, it's possible to live one year longer; there is just a very small chance of that happening, and has never happened in what we know as our universe.

Yes, it's interesting that in the billions of people who have ever lived, our universe is not one where even one of those people have made it to even 200 (biblical references aside).

 

[DyslexicHobo]

Originally posted by: liquid51

Originally posted by: DyslexicHobo
Death is caused by something wrong with our bodies--that makes our brain stop sending electrical impulses.

This something wrong is something of chance, and the chances do approach 100% but is never certain. In one of these parallel universes, you have made that tiny chance of survival every single time.

Think of it this way: what is the oldest possible age one can live to be? 100? 105? 110? Well whichever you choose, it's possible to live one year longer; there is just a very small chance of that happening, and has never happened in what we know as our universe.

Yes, it's interesting that in the billions of people who have ever lived, our universe is not one where even one of those people have made it to even 200 (biblical references aside).

Yes... but what is billions of billions of people when considering an INFINITE number of universes? You're taking an infinitesimally small sample and making a conclusion based just on that sample (even though in the everyday world trillions of people sounds like a lot, when compared to trillions of people times an infinite number of universes, it's small).

Edit: This is, of course, saying that one believes in this "many-worlds" theory. I have not read up on it, so correct me if I'm wrong. From what I know, it basically means that for any time there is a chance of something happening, all possible chances happen but in a different, parallel universe?

 

[Leros]

Originally posted by: DyslexicHobo

Originally posted by: liquid51

Originally posted by: DyslexicHobo
Death is caused by something wrong with our bodies--that makes our brain stop sending electrical impulses.

This something wrong is something of chance, and the chances do approach 100% but is never certain. In one of these parallel universes, you have made that tiny chance of survival every single time.

Think of it this way: what is the oldest possible age one can live to be? 100? 105? 110? Well whichever you choose, it's possible to live one year longer; there is just a very small chance of that happening, and has never happened in what we know as our universe.

Yes, it's interesting that in the billions of people who have ever lived, our universe is not one where even one of those people have made it to even 200 (biblical references aside).

Yes... but what is billions of billions of people when considering an INFINITE number of universes? You're taking an infinitesimally small sample and making a conclusion based just on that sample (even though in the everyday world trillions of people sounds like a lot, when compared to trillions of people times an infinite number of universes, it's small).

Edit: This is, of course, saying that one believes in this "many-worlds" theory. I have not read up on it, so correct me if I'm wrong. From what I know, it basically means that for any time there is a chance of something happening, all possible chances happen but in a different, parallel universe?

Pretty much. From what I understand it means there are many many worlds of chaos where energy is just flying around everywhere. We are just lucky enough to continue being in one where everything is stable.

Of course, I have a hard time believing that, but who knows.

 

[DyslexicHobo]

Yeah... IMHO it's just as bad as believing that The Matrix is real. People are free to believe whatever they want, but I choose to believe that reality is only exactly what is presented to me--the things that I can see, feel, and sense-- there is nothing more.

This way, I don't over-think what could possibly be out there. I leave that to the philosophers.

 

[verndewd]

If you want to attach paralell universe theory to existence you need to also attach individuality to each existence of any one person and their alledged iterations.

Lets say there are 20million instances of you;Not one of them are truly you they are seperate free moral agents and very uniques to their own space time area.

As infinitely varied as the upbringing could be and the circumstanes could be;It would clearly indicate that as much as the variation is you, it is also not even remotely you and a different person altogether.

We could use atomic structure as a reference; Take any one atom and add remove and swap any piece of it. just from a quark and gluon perspective it changes everything to change one thing. Then add nuetrons and electrons etc.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: DyslexicHobo
But according to the theory, in one world, they would have PROVEN that this theory is false. Correct? So the many worlds interpretation = paradox?

I read something once talking about something along these lines, and it gave the following explanation:

You can have an infinite number of apples without having any oranges.

Just because there are an 'infinite' number of worlds does not mean that there must exist some world where any particular thing happens.

Of course, any theories along these lines are highly speculative guesses at best. This is really more a philosophical question than a scientific one (at least unless someone actually proves the existence of parallel universes and/or a way to interact with them).

 

[Oceandevi]

I suppose our cells could be perfect and never fail at what they do, reproducing without error for eons.....


But they do fail, we age, after 30 your body is falling apart. Your cells are fighting a losing battle trying to rebuild what is being torn down by time. Nothing goes on forever.

One of the laws of thermodynamics explains this.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: Leros
I think I am correct in saying that there is a world where you will be alive forever. Thus, to your perception, you will never die.

To your perception, you will die. To the perception of at least one of your instances you won't die. You might get lucky once, but don't count on it.

Some may say there's no distinguishable difference between this instance of you and any other near-identical instance, by some measure it could be one and the same. If anything, it doesn't indicate that you won't die right here and right now if you tried to kill yourself, from your point of view, but it does indicate that death itself is very insignificant. A death as we know it could very well be an insignificant blip in one's entire existence, a mere extinguished photon from all the rays of the sun. Indeed if at least time is infinite, but not necessarily space, it's the only explanation that makes sense.