The Magnitude of the Mess We're In

[cybrsage]

Because they've been indoctrinated and conditioned into thinking they need them. Sad are the times we live in(though this could be said about all times).

They take a lot of money from my paycheck every year for SS...if they are going to take SS away, the tax specifically for SS must go with it.

 

[Franz316]

I tend to think that our economic troubles are systemic and independent of whoever is in charge. Small policy changes will not stop the course that the economy is taking, it has too much inertia. At this point the problems run too deep and too close to the fundamental level for any policy to fix. I think we are in for a wild ride during the next decade.

This was posted on Zerohedge today and is extremely relevant to this topic. It's a great read on our current economic situation. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-are-you-seeing-what-im-seeing

On a side note, if an entirely outside observer came to Earth and saw our current situation they would think we are idiots. Our entire predicament is completely artificial and self imposed. All this money and debt doesn't even exist in the first place, it is just a game that humans play. It is as real as a unicorn.

 

[jstern01]

The hard solutions have been pushed back and back. When do you think they will be brought up? With a forced sequestration?

If the Democrats had made the effort to reduce spending and had proposed a substantive plan to control any of the excesses itemized in the OP, I would be an avid supporter.

They have not. We have had year after year of blame heaped on the prior Administration while the purportedly emergency, quick fix, temporary and otherwise deceptively described spending continues unabated. And now new entitlements like Obamacare are rearing their ugly head.

The regulatory impact is almost as disturbing. Let's impose more cost burdens on business and then expect them to invest in growth - this only makes sense to the slavering Democrat base of know-nothings.

So much anger and ignorance. Let's stop feeding the trolls. Republicans can not see past the next election when it comes to long term planning, and the Democrats are too weak will to play hard ball politics.

It was not to long ago, that politics was the art of negotiating and compromise. With the both sides willing to cut and raise revenue when it was necessary. Simpson-Boles commission was nothing more than a stall tactic by both parties. No matter what they suggested/recommended neither party would be support it.

 

[bfdd]

They take a lot of money from my paycheck every year for SS...if they are going to take SS away, the tax specifically for SS must go with it.

sounds good to me. i'm against many of those big forced programs. IMO everything should be an opt-in or not offered at all.

 

[lotus503]

Anyone who thinks Mitt Romney is magically going to shrink the deficit and the debt is a buffoon.

News Flash: Democrats AND Republicans are big government.

True, but not nearly as stimulating as endless partisan bickering I guess.

If we had someone decent in the whitehouse all of the forum asshats would jump out of windows absent all the mental masterbation.

 

[amish]

ha, it would be nice if we could just get a budget passed.

 

[Jaskalas]

The Magnitude of the Mess We're In

Let me clarify the magnitude of the mess we're in.

The ballot box is stacked with the same two assholes that got us into this mess. Neither one will get us out of it. Voting will not solve our problems. Ergo, our problems will not be solved.

This country does not have a functioning government even as it is growing larger than ever. This dysfunction is systemically trashing our economy as the tendrils of corruption suck the wealth out of everything.

The pot is boiling. Civil unrest and rioting is our future. This risks the store shelves... if those go empty, no limit to our suffering.

Mad Max: Beyond America.

 

[lotus503]

Let me clarify the magnitude of the mess we're in.

The ballot box is stacked with the same two assholes that got us into this mess. Neither one will get us out of it. Voting will not solve our problems. Ergo, our problems will not be solved.

This country does not have a functioning government even as it is growing larger than ever. This dysfunction is systemically trashing our economy as the tendrils of corruption suck the wealth out of everything.

The pot is boiling. Civil unrest and rioting is our future. This risks the store shelves... if those go empty, no limit to our suffering.

Mad Max: Beyond America.

as much as I would love to make fun of your pessimism, you are right!

 

[bfdd]

Let me clarify the magnitude of the mess we're in.

The ballot box is stacked with the same two assholes that got us into this mess. Neither one will get us out of it. Voting will not solve our problems. Ergo, our problems will not be solved.

This country does not have a functioning government even as it is growing larger than ever. This dysfunction is systemically trashing our economy as the tendrils of corruption suck the wealth out of everything.

The pot is boiling. Civil unrest and rioting is our future. This risks the store shelves... if those go empty, no limit to our suffering.

Mad Max: Beyond America.

You're right the majority of us voting won't do any good because like you said ballot is stuffed with the same two assholes. They have spent decades running amok with their ideals, shitting all over the US constitution. I'm talking about Democrats and Republicans who have STOLEN OUR GOVERNMENT. It's so sad to see so many continually playing their game while the rest of us are marginalized. Probably one of the reasons I find it so funny is because so many people whine about money being involved etc and they want to get it out, but the people feeding them all their ideas, running their causes are all the monied interests that they're whining about.

 

[lotus503]

You're right the majority of us voting won't do any good because like you said ballot is stuffed with the same two assholes. They have spent decades running amok with their ideals, shitting all over the US constitution. I'm talking about Democrats and Republicans who have STOLEN OUR GOVERNMENT. It's so sad to see so many continually playing their game while the rest of us are marginalized. Probably one of the reasons I find it so funny is because so many people whine about money being involved etc and they want to get it out, but the people feeding them all their ideas, running their causes are all the monied interests that they're whining about.

I do find some solace that at least a few people get it, too bad its only a few.

 

[lotus503]

You're right the majority of us voting won't do any good because like you said ballot is stuffed with the same two assholes. They have spent decades running amok with their ideals, shitting all over the US constitution. I'm talking about Democrats and Republicans who have STOLEN OUR GOVERNMENT. It's so sad to see so many continually playing their game while the rest of us are marginalized. Probably one of the reasons I find it so funny is because so many people whine about money being involved etc and they want to get it out, but the people feeding them all their ideas, running their causes are all the monied interests that they're whining about.

while the production quality and some of the antics are stupid and Some fo the truther crap.

this cat lays it out there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tTxkrFdLiQ&feature=relmfu

 

[Darwin333]

No matter what Obama proposed the House repugs wouldn't support anyhow.

Exactly, so why should he bother proposing anything right?

 

[Darwin333]

President Obama's "fiscal mediocrity" was much better than President Bush's "Fiscal Disaster"

President Obama had to preside over the reversal of severe job loss rates and help enact policies that would reverse it.

Of course we know that the Republicans in congress have been very helpful with that don't we?

From what I've read, the entries on site this chart comes from is actually fairly even keeled.

Why does it start at the beginning of the recession instead of the beginning of Bush's presidency?

 

[Darwin333]

Until the House Republicans are at least willing to talk about revenue (taxes) as a component of addressing the fiscal situation all further conversation is beyond pointless.

The math doesn't agree with you. Obviously revenue needs to be increased and the House needs to get on board with that but the revenue increase will be an absurdly small percentage of our current deficits. We are talking in the 5% range or so and while that is definitely a start it is in no way significant on its own.

Now if the Dems are proposing to increase taxes on more than just the rich maybe we can hit 10% but I highly doubt the Dems would propose that. Hell, I will be insanely impressed if the latest "temporary" tax cuts are allowed to expire.

 

[Darwin333]

Yes, it is sort of hard to eliminate extremely popular programs like SS and Medicare. The electorate has clearly said they want these things to exist at least in some form.

Medicare and medicaid costs have been rising at roughly 9% a year. Throw that into your spreadsheet of choice and tell me what they will cost in a decade.

We will only see what the electorate truly want when they are forced to actually pay for them. Until then of course they love programs that they only pay a very small portion of the benefits that they receive. Who the hell wouldn't?

 

[piasabird]

I think we should be willing to cut ss and medicare the same way we cut defense. If the rest of America is suffering and making less money, why shouldnt we cut SS as well? Why is it sacred? There are no guarantees in life. Cut welfare also.

 

[bfdd]

while the production quality and some of the antics are stupid and Some fo the truther crap.

this cat lays it out there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tTxkrFdLiQ&feature=relmfu

I'll check it out, thanks. We'll see how far out he goes into the truther stuff, hope it's not all that crazy.

 

[umbrella39]

And for very good reasons. :awe:

Yup. Being only half white has it's drawbacks...

 

[K1052]

Medicare and medicaid costs have been rising at roughly 9% a year. Throw that into your spreadsheet of choice and tell me what they will cost in a decade.

We will only see what the electorate truly want when they are forced to actually pay for them. Until then of course they love programs that they only pay a very small portion of the benefits that they receive. Who the hell wouldn't?

Re-read the last five words of my post. Long term changes to these programs have been on the table before. They will not however happen while a vocal faction of the house refuses to raise any rev go with them and the remainder are so scared of loosing their seats to people even more conservative that they will not compromise.

 

[Mursilis]

Yes, it is sort of hard to eliminate extremely popular programs like SS and Medicare. The electorate has clearly said they want these things to exist at least in some form.

Yes, but then again a good portion of the electorate is a bunch of idiots who have zero financial self-discipline (see the housing bubble and tech bubble before that) and just like "free" federal benefits.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Compromise...isn't that what you guys call the dems demanding the reps do as they say? BOTH sides need to compromise, not just "the other side".

Obama is simply reaping what he sowed. He sowed seeds of "f-ck you" and excluded the reps when he could, now he finds he has sacks full of "f-ck you fruit" for his labors. No one should be surprised.

Wow, ignorance is strong in this one.

Looking back at the facts of the last budget crisis, Obama compromised well over 50% of the way between his ideas and the GOP. But in your twisted troll-mind, that doesn't count? LOL

 

[airdata]

Oh hai guys. Lets just do unlimited Quantitative easing. That'll um.... ' fix ' everything!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Because they've been indoctrinated and conditioned into thinking they need them. Sad are the times we live in(though this could be said about all times).

You have no clue.....

 

[Darwin333]

Re-read the last five words of my post. Long term changes to these programs have been on the table before. They will not however happen while a vocal faction of the house refuses to raise any rev go with them and the remainder are so scared of loosing their seats to people even more conservative that they will not compromise.

The long term changes are neither substantial enough nor likely to actually go into effect as up and coming politicians promise the electorate to roll back the "draconian" cuts.

I agree that revenue needs to go up but its bailing out the Titanic with a very small bucket without serious reforms to the mandatory spending items along with the DOD (which means a much better energy policy that is unlikely to happen as well).

Hell, I seriously doubt the long term cuts you are talking about would even cover a quarter of the 9% a year increase.

Edit: And that still doesn't really address my main point. Tax the fuck out of the rich and it still won't even come close to covering the costs of these extremely popular programs. Until such time as the electorate is forced to pay for the services they desire in the here and now nothing will be fixed.

 

[werepossum]

The long term changes are neither substantial enough nor likely to actually go into effect as up and coming politicians promise the electorate to roll back the "draconian" cuts.

I agree that revenue needs to go up but its bailing out the Titanic with a very small bucket without serious reforms to the mandatory spending items along with the DOD (which means a much better energy policy that is unlikely to happen as well).

Hell, I seriously doubt the long term cuts you are talking about would even cover a quarter of the 9% a year increase.

Edit: And that still doesn't really address my main point. Tax the fuck out of the rich and it still won't even come close to covering the costs of these extremely popular programs. Until such time as the electorate is forced to pay for the services they desire in the here and now nothing will be fixed.

Well said.