The Magnitude of the Mess We're In

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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While we have several threads going at the moment congratulating Obama for his fiscal mediocrity and lowering our expectations in time for the elections, the fact is that we are facing a "come to Jesus meeting" real soon now.

An emergency stimulus and bailout has turned into the new baseline for federal spending and the rationale for escalating government entitlements.

Massive amounts of short term borrowing at historically low interest rates will soon have to be refinanced at ever increasing rates as the creditworthiness of the US sinks ever lower.

The pending expiration of the Bush tax cuts and the mandates of sequestration are the elephants you can now clearly hear stomping in the next room.

The Obama campaign is in full swing, no time to take the necessary actions. No interest in proposing what those are even going to be when no ideas are even being considered. Other than tax and spend, of course.

The hard choices have been long delayed for political expediency and, since 2008, the Democrat Party need to pay off their constituent base. Now those choices are even tougher and are being pushed onto what will shortly be a lame duck Congress and, should Obama be re-elected, a President that clearly does not accept what has to be done.

A Republican win of the Senate and the Presidency will offer no quick fix, but at least House Republicans have taken the steps of seriously considering and passing budgets over the last few years, even if the Senate Democrats and the President refuse to consider them. These can be a head start.

And we can sure use that.

The Magnitude of the Mess We're In

The next Treasury secretary will confront problems so daunting that even Alexander Hamilton would have trouble preserving the full faith and credit of the United States.

By George P. Shultz, Michael J. Boskin, John F. Cogan, Allan H. Meltzer and John B. Taylor

Wall Street Journal - September 16, 2012, 7:03 p.m. ET

Sometimes a few facts tell important stories. The American economy now is full of facts that tell stories that you really don't want, but need, to hear.

Where are we now?

Did you know that annual spending by the federal government now exceeds the 2007 level by about $1 trillion? With a slow economy, revenues are little changed. The result is an unprecedented string of federal budget deficits, $1.4 trillion in 2009, $1.3 trillion in 2010, $1.3 trillion in 2011, and another $1.2 trillion on the way this year. The four-year increase in borrowing amounts to $55,000 per U.S. household.

The amount of debt is one thing. The burden of interest payments is another. The Treasury now has a preponderance of its debt issued in very short-term durations, to take advantage of low short-term interest rates. It must frequently refinance this debt which, when added to the current deficit, means Treasury must raise $4 trillion this year alone. So the debt burden will explode when interest rates go up.

The government has to get the money to finance its spending by taxing or borrowing. While it might be tempting to conclude that we can just tax upper-income people, did you know that the U.S. income tax system is already very progressive? The top 1% pay 37% of all income taxes and 50% pay none.

Did you know that, during the last fiscal year, around three-quarters of the deficit was financed by the Federal Reserve? Foreign governments accounted for most of the rest, as American citizens' and institutions' purchases and sales netted to about zero. The Fed now owns one in six dollars of the national debt, the largest percentage of GDP in history, larger than even at the end of World War II.

The Fed has effectively replaced the entire interbank money market and large segments of other markets with itself. It determines the interest rate by declaring what it will pay on reserve balances at the Fed without regard for the supply and demand of money. By replacing large decentralized markets with centralized control by a few government officials, the Fed is distorting incentives and interfering with price discovery with unintended economic consequences.

Did you know that the Federal Reserve is now giving money to banks, effectively circumventing the appropriations process? To pay for quantitative easing—the purchase of government debt, mortgage-backed securities, etc.—the Fed credits banks with electronic deposits that are reserve balances at the Federal Reserve. These reserve balances have exploded to $1.5 trillion from $8 billion in September 2008.

The Fed now pays 0.25% interest on reserves it holds. So the Fed is paying the banks almost $4 billion a year. If interest rates rise to 2%, and the Federal Reserve raises the rate it pays on reserves correspondingly, the payment rises to $30 billion a year. Would Congress appropriate that kind of money to give—not lend—to banks?

The Fed's policy of keeping interest rates so low for so long means that the real rate (after accounting for inflation) is negative, thereby cutting significantly the real income of those who have saved for retirement over their lifetime.

The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is also being financed by the Federal Reserve rather than by appropriations, severing the checks and balances needed for good government. And the Fed's Operation Twist, buying long-term and selling short-term debt, is substituting for the Treasury's traditional debt management.

This large expansion of reserves creates two-sided risks. If it is not unwound, the reserves could pour into the economy, causing inflation. In that event, the Fed will have effectively turned the government debt and mortgage-backed securities it purchased into money that will have an explosive impact. If reserves are unwound too quickly, banks may find it hard to adjust and pull back on loans. Unwinding would be hard to manage now, but will become ever harder the more the balance sheet rises.

The issue is not merely how much we spend, but how wisely, how effectively. Did you know that the federal government had 46 separate job-training programs? Yet a 47th for green jobs was added, and the success rate was so poor that the Department of Labor inspector general said it should be shut down. We need to get much better results from current programs, serving a more carefully targeted set of people with more effective programs that increase their opportunities.

Did you know that funding for federal regulatory agencies and their employment levels are at all-time highs? In 2010, the number of Federal Register pages devoted to proposed new rules broke its previous all-time record for the second consecutive year. It's up by 25% compared to 2008. These regulations alone will impose large costs and create heightened uncertainty for business and especially small business.

This is all bad enough, but where we are headed is even worse.

President Obama's budget will raise the federal debt-to-GDP ratio to 80.4% in two years, about double its level at the end of 2008, and a larger percentage point increase than Greece from the end of 2008 to the beginning of this year.

Under the president's budget, for example, the debt expands rapidly to $18.8 trillion from $10.8 trillion in 10 years. The interest costs alone will reach $743 billion a year, more than we are currently spending on Social Security, Medicare or national defense, even under the benign assumption of no inflationary increase or adverse bond-market reaction. For every one percentage point increase in interest rates above this projection, interest costs rise by more than $100 billion, more than current spending on veterans' health and the National Institutes of Health combined.

Worse, the unfunded long-run liabilities of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid add tens of trillions of dollars to the debt, mostly due to rising real benefits per beneficiary. Before long, all the government will be able to do is finance the debt and pay pension and medical benefits. This spending will crowd out all other necessary government functions.

What does this spending and debt mean in the long run if it is not controlled? One result will be ever-higher income and payroll taxes on all taxpayers that will reach over 80% at the top and 70% for many middle-income working couples.

Did you know that the federal government used the bankruptcy of two auto companies to transfer money that belonged to debt holders such as pension funds and paid it to friendly labor unions? This greatly increased uncertainty about creditor rights under bankruptcy law.

The Fed is adding to the uncertainty of current policy. Quantitative easing as a policy tool is very hard to manage. Traders speculate whether and when the Fed will intervene next. The Fed can intervene without limit in any credit market—not only mortgage-backed securities but also securities backed by automobile loans or student loans. This raises questions about why an independent agency of government should have this power.

When businesses and households confront large-scale uncertainty, they tend to wait for more clarity to emerge before making major commitments to spend, invest and hire. Right now, they confront a mountain of regulatory uncertainty and a fiscal cliff that, if unattended, means a sharp increase in taxes and a sharp decline in spending bound to have adverse effect on the economy. Are you surprised that so much cash is waiting on the sidelines?

What's at stake?

We cannot count on problems elsewhere in the world to make Treasury securities a safe haven forever. We risk eventually losing the privilege and great benefit of lower interest rates from the dollar's role as the global reserve currency. In short, we risk passing an economic, fiscal and financial point of no return.

Suppose you were offered the job of Treasury secretary a few months from now. Would you accept? You would confront problems that are so daunting even Alexander Hamilton would have trouble preserving the full faith and credit of the United States. Our first Treasury secretary famously argued that one of a nation's greatest assets is its ability to issue debt, especially in a crisis. We needed to honor our Revolutionary War debt, he said, because the debt "foreign and domestic, was the price of liberty."

History has reconfirmed Hamilton's wisdom. As historian John Steele Gordon has written, our nation's ability to issue debt helped preserve the Union in the 1860s and defeat totalitarian governments in the 1940s. Today, government officials are issuing debt to finance pet projects and payoffs to interest groups, not some vital, let alone existential, national purpose.

The problems are close to being unmanageable now. If we stay on the current path, they will wind up being completely unmanageable, culminating in an unwelcome explosion and crisis.

The fixes are blindingly obvious. Economic theory, empirical studies and historical experience teach that the solutions are the lowest possible tax rates on the broadest base, sufficient to fund the necessary functions of government on balance over the business cycle; sound monetary policy; trade liberalization; spending control and entitlement reform; and regulatory, litigation and education reform. The need is clear. Why wait for disaster? The future is now.

The authors are senior fellows at Stanford University's Hoover Institution. They have served in various federal government policy positions in the Treasury Department, the Office of Management and Budget and the Council of Economic Advisers.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
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President Obama's "fiscal mediocrity" was much better than President Bush's "Fiscal Disaster"

President Obama had to preside over the reversal of severe job loss rates and help enact policies that would reverse it.

Of course we know that the Republicans in congress have been very helpful with that don't we? :rolleyes:

liberal-total-private-jobs-worldview-may-2012-data.jpg


From what I've read, the entries on site this chart comes from is actually fairly even keeled.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
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Anyone who thinks Mitt Romney is magically going to shrink the deficit and the debt is a buffoon.

News Flash: Democrats AND Republicans are big government.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
President Obama's "fiscal mediocrity" was much better than President Bush's "Fiscal Disaster"

President Obama had to preside over the reversal of severe job loss rates and help enact policies that would reverse it.

Of course we know that the Republicans in congress have been very helpful with that don't we? :rolleyes:

liberal-total-private-jobs-worldview-may-2012-data.jpg


From what I've read, the entries on site this chart comes from is actually fairly even keeled.

I've always enjoyed watching how leftists claim Obama is not responsible for the FY2009 budget, yet credit him for the 2009 employment numbers.
 

Schmide

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2002
5,718
994
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I've always enjoyed watching how leftists claim Obama is not responsible for the FY2009 budget, yet credit him for the 2009 employment numbers.

Dude. Just because they are blue doesn't make them good. All of 2009 was bad.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,455
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So... we have to elect Romney to get a budget?

A Republican budget would still have to pass a Democrat Senate, and even if it could - compromises would trash the whole point. They could take government growth and cut it in half, it'd still be rising out of control indefinitely.

Mark my words. Republicans aren't going to do a damn thing. Big-gov Neocons control them.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Until the House Republicans are at least willing to talk about revenue (taxes) as a component of addressing the fiscal situation all further conversation is beyond pointless.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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Until the House Republicans are at least willing to talk about revenue (taxes) as a component of addressing the fiscal situation all further conversation is beyond pointless.

Getting rid of all the socialism is to hard to do. Both the Republicans and Democrats want it and they have no problem infringing on anyone else to get their form of socialism to be the dominate one.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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But, the huge mess we were in, the biggest recession since the depression, you expected a quick fix for that. Okay.
The hard solutions have been pushed back and back. When do you think they will be brought up? With a forced sequestration?

If the Democrats had made the effort to reduce spending and had proposed a substantive plan to control any of the excesses itemized in the OP, I would be an avid supporter.

They have not. We have had year after year of blame heaped on the prior Administration while the purportedly emergency, quick fix, temporary and otherwise deceptively described spending continues unabated. And now new entitlements like Obamacare are rearing their ugly head.

The regulatory impact is almost as disturbing. Let's impose more cost burdens on business and then expect them to invest in growth - this only makes sense to the slavering Democrat base of know-nothings.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Getting rid of all the socialism is to hard to do. Both the Republicans and Democrats want it and they have no problem infringing on anyone else to get their form of socialism to be the dominate one.

Yes, it is sort of hard to eliminate extremely popular programs like SS and Medicare. The electorate has clearly said they want these things to exist at least in some form.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,780
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I've always enjoyed watching how leftists claim Obama is not responsible for the FY2009 budget, yet credit him for the 2009 employment numbers.

Read what I said.... before you make a stupid post.

and help enact policies that would reverse it.

Bush did help start the initial stimulus which is why I said "and help enact policies that would reverse it."

If you think that republicans were helpful after the 2009 budget ended, I've got a good investment in a bridge you might be interested in.


*edit* ok ok you might not like that source so here's another one....

http://articles.businessinsider.com...-administration-mitt-romney#mod-ctr-lt-in-top

Meanwhile, Romney waxes nostalgically about the dream-like economy during the Bush Administration, before the Democrats ruined everything. He promises a return to those years.
So here's a quick quiz:
How many jobs were created per month during the Bush Administration?
We'll look at two different answers.
First, we'll look at the number of jobs created on average in the first 7 years of the Bush Administration, before the disastrous last year, when the economy fell off a cliff.
And, second...
We'll look at the number of jobs created on average during the Bush Administration including the disastrous last year.
And for a special bonus, here's another question: In how many months of the 96 months of the Bush Administration were there 500,000 or more jobs created?
Have your guesses ready?
Great. Then scroll down for the answers...

AVERAGE NUMBER OF JOBS CREATED PER MONTH BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION: 20,000
AVERAGE NUMBER OF JOBS CREATED PER MONTH BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION EXCLUDING THE DISASTROUS LAST YEAR: 65,000
NUMBER OF MONTHS IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION IN WHICH THERE WERE 500,000 OR MORE JOBS CREATED: 0.
(In fact, there were no months in the Bush Administration in which there were 400,000 jobs created).
Source: The BLS
UPDATE: A reader asks that we "be fair" and exclude 2002 from the Bush years, presumably on the theory that that bad year was the Clinton Administration's fault. So here goes...


pixel.gif

Excluding 2002, there were 58,000 jobs created per month during the Bush Administration.
Excluding 2002 and 2008--which seems unfair, given that the Bush Administration had 7 years to shape the economy in the way they wanted leading up to 2008--there were 130,000 jobs created per month during the Bush Administration. This, it seems worth noting, is almost exactly the same as the 131,000 jobs created per month during the Obama Administration (excluding 2009).
So maybe the conclusion should be that Presidents aren't worth a jar of warm spit. In decent years these days, the economy creates about 130,000 jobs a month, regardless of who's in office.


Happy now?
 
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Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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Until the House Republicans are at least willing to talk about revenue (taxes) as a component of addressing the fiscal situation all further conversation is beyond pointless.

And many are of the opinion that until Congressional Dems are willing to talk about spending cuts "all further conversation is beyond pointless", especially that of increased taxes.

Fern
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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And many are of the opinion that until Congressional Dems are willing to talk about spending cuts "all further conversation is beyond pointless", especially that of increased taxes.

Fern

They were talking about spending cuts until Simpson-Bowles collapsed. The Tea Party faction is going sink any real compromise.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
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You actually have people on here applauding Obama's economic numbers. lol. So much stupid, it really cant be fixed. Bring out the mongol hordes.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
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I don't care to hear about job gains we have had since 2008 without knowing how many people retired during that same period. You know the baby boomers . I doubt their has been any New Jobs at all. The infrastructure of our cities is rotting away . It was built rather cheaplly . Replacing what was once cheap is going to cost trillions upon trillions. water mains breaking all over America
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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Anyone who thinks Mitt Romney is magically going to shrink the deficit and the debt is a buffoon.

News Flash: Democrats AND Republicans are big government.
Agreed. Plus, no one really has a solution to our underlying systemic problems, or at least, not one without more pain (at least short term) than we as a nation are willing to endure. The Democrats want to throw confiscated money to their core constituencies and hope the economy someone fixes itself - at which point they will take credit and use that to justify even more borrowing and spending. The Republicans want to throw tax cuts to their core constituencies and hope the economy someone fixes itself - at which point they will take credit and use that to justify even more tax cuts and spending. Both sides are willing to cut the other party's preferred spending as long as they can maintain their own. I usually prefer the Republicans as the lesser evil, but we shouldn't fool ourselves; the two parties are much more similar than not, no matter how they squabble.

And many are of the opinion that until Congressional Dems are willing to talk about spending cuts "all further conversation is beyond pointless", especially that of increased taxes.

Fern
The Dems are willing to make spending cuts as long as they are D.C. cuts, meaning we'll spend more but the increased spending will be a "cut" with respect to our baseline budget. Thus a 7.5% spending increase can be styled a cut - or even a draconian cut, if the Pubbies are in power.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
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One side won't eliminate temporary tax cuts and neither side will cut much of anything.

They should just have across the board 10% cuts in everything. Get rid of the Bush tax cuts too.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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But, the huge mess we were in, the biggest recession since the depression, you expected a quick fix for that. Okay.

Obama promised one...if you thnk he is an idiot for doing so, don't vote for him this time around.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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Yes, it is sort of hard to eliminate extremely popular programs like SS and Medicare. The electorate has clearly said they want these things to exist at least in some form.

Because they've been indoctrinated and conditioned into thinking they need them. Sad are the times we live in(though this could be said about all times).
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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They were talking about spending cuts until Simpson-Bowles collapsed. The Tea Party faction is going sink any real compromise.

Compromise...isn't that what you guys call the dems demanding the reps do as they say? BOTH sides need to compromise, not just "the other side".

Obama is simply reaping what he sowed. He sowed seeds of "f-ck you" and excluded the reps when he could, now he finds he has sacks full of "f-ck you fruit" for his labors. No one should be surprised.