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The latest farce from the Clinton Camp

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
0
71
Can she dig any lower? Does anyone have the statistics on how close she is to completing the hole through the earth to China? I've heard of scorched earth before, but this is rediculous. I wonder what her future in the party will be after this crap.

http://politicalticker.blogs.c...florida-michigan-case/

(CNN) ? A day before the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee is set to determine how to seat the delegations of Florida and Michigan, the Clinton campaign's chief lawyer said the committee is compelled to seat both delegations fully and not award Barack Obama any delegates from Michigan.

In a letter addressed to the co-chairs of the RBC, Clinton lawyer Lyn Utrecht said both states have already been sufficiently punished because of lack of campaign activity.

"It is a bedrock principle of our Party that every vote must be counted, and thereby every elected delegate should be seated," Utrecht wrote. "The States have already been punished because no campaign activity was conducted in Florida or Michigan. There is no requirement or need to punish their duly elected delegates who represent the 2.3 million voters in Michigan and Florida who participated in the nominating process."

Utrecht also made clear the campaign will not accept a resolution in Michigan that awards Obama any delegates, since the Illinois senator took his name off the ballot there.

"Neither the DNC Rules nor the Michigan Delegate Selection Plan allow arbitrary reallocation of Uncommitted delegates to a candidate or arbitrary reallocation of delegates from one candidate to another," he wrote.

The Clinton campaign also said Friday that former Michigan Gov. Jim Blanchard and Florida State Senator Arthenia Joyner will make the case for the campaign at the hearing Saturday.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
FL and Mi will be counted, after Obama gets the nomination. Under DNC rules the winner can seat those two states. :) So don't worry, they will be counted in the end :beer:
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
doesn't really matter, Obama's won.

still, it does strike a weird cord with me if Obama were to seat the delegations magnanimously after riding so hard on the "rules are rules" train.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
18
81
Shit, Obama should let them seat the FL/MI delegates however Clinton wants and he'd still win. And he'd look like a hero in the process, entertaining the whimsy of a spoiled child. Way to go out with a whimper Hill.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: jonks
Shit, Obama should give her all of FL and MI and he'd still easily win. And he'd look like a hero in the process, entertaining the whimsy of a spoiled child. Way to go out with a whimper Hill.
new name, new attitude? :p
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
18
81
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: jonks
Shit, Obama should let them seat the FL/MI delegates however Clinton wants and he'd still win. And he'd look like a hero in the process, entertaining the whimsy of a spoiled child. Way to go out with a whimper Hill.
new name, new attitude? :p
Just tryin to drop some weight, figured shaving a few letters of the handle would be a nice symbolic start :)

And read my back posts, I've never supported Hillary going after FL/MI, and repeatedly criticized her for it.

I still think she's the better candidate and would make the stronger president, but we had a nomination process and Obama has won, even if it was close. I'm not going to vote McCain for chrissake, time to stitch the party up instead of making last minute ridiculous arguments.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
So does that mean that Hillary is then open to all unpledged MI delegates becoming supers so that their vote is still heard? That would be the only fair thing to do, amirite?
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Administrator
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
29
86
Originally posted by: Gobadgrs

Topic Summary: They want Obama to get 0 delegates from Michigan and won't accept any other compromise.
I hope the DNC tells 'em what to do if they can't take a joke. :cool:
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,521
4,198
126
Originally posted by: senseamp
How many votes did Obama get in MI?
Who cares? Hillary agreed their votes wouldn't count anyway. I'm sure she won't go back on what she committed to, would she?
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
So does that mean that Hillary is then open to all unpledged MI delegates becoming supers so that their vote is still heard? That would be the only fair thing to do, amirite?
we need to convert every NY/NJ delegate to super status, triple their vote, divide by zero, wait for the solar eclipse, and thus will Mechaclinton be raised from the depths of the ocean floor.
 

extra

Golden Member
Dec 18, 1999
1,947
6
81
Yeah, this is just sick. I don't get why the media isn't calling this for the b.s. that it is. I won't even be able to vote for Obama if hillary is in the VP slot she's left that much of a bad taste in my mouth. I can't even wrap my mind around how big someone's ego/entitlement complex must be to try to pull crap like this.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Don't worry, the forks' already been stuck in the pig. There's a photo of her swinging back a big glass of Whiskey on Drudge. She's done.
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Does this really surprise anyone? The Clintons will do absolutely ANYTHING to win this election. I wouldn't be surprised if this goes all the way to the convention. Thats how bad she thinks she deserves this.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Gobadgrs

Topic Summary: They want Obama to get 0 delegates from Michigan and won't accept any other compromise.
I hope the DNC tells 'em what to do if they can't take a joke. :cool:
to deny MI/FL is to say Kurt Kobain died in vein.

what do you have against Hitlerspidermanapplepie? :roll:
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
Obama used party rules to foil Clinton

By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER, Associated Press Writer


Unlike Hillary Rodham Clinton, rival Barack Obama planned for the long haul.

Clinton hinged her whole campaign on an early knockout blow on Super Tuesday, while Obama's staff researched congressional districts in states with primaries that were months away. What they found were opportunities to win delegates, even in states they would eventually lose.

Obama's campaign mastered some of the most arcane rules in politics, and then used them to foil a front-runner who seemed to have every advantage ? money, fame and a husband who had essentially run the Democratic Party for eight years as president.

"Without a doubt, their understanding of the nominating process was one of the keys to their success," said Tad Devine, a Democratic strategist not aligned with either candidate. "They understood the nuances of it and approached it at a strategic level that the Clinton campaign did not."

Careful planning is one reason why Obama is emerging as the nominee as the Democratic Party prepares for its final three primaries, Puerto Rico on Sunday and Montana and South Dakota on Tuesday. Attributing his success only to soaring speeches and prodigious fundraising ignores a critical part of the process.

Obama used the Democrats' system of awarding delegates to limit his losses in states won by Clinton while maximizing gains in states he carried. Clinton, meanwhile, conserved her resources by essentially conceding states that favored Obama, including many states that held caucuses instead of primaries.

In a stark example, Obama's victory in Kansas wiped out the gains made by Clinton for winning New Jersey, even though New Jersey had three times as many delegates at stake. Obama did it by winning big in Kansas while keeping the vote relatively close in New Jersey.

The research effort was headed by Jeffrey Berman, Obama's press-shy national director of delegate operations. Berman, who also tracked delegates in former Rep. Dick Gephardt's presidential bids, spent the better part of 2007 analyzing delegate opportunities for Obama.

"The whole Clinton campaign thought this would be like previous campaigns, a battle of momentum," said Thomas Mann, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, a Washington think tank. "They thought she would be the only one would who could compete in such a momentous event as Super Tuesday."

Instead, Obama won a majority of the 23 Super Tuesday contests on Feb. 5 and then spent the following two weeks racking up 11 straight victories, building an insurmountable lead among delegates won in primaries and caucuses.

What made it especially hard for Clinton to catch up was that Obama understood and took advantage of a nominating system that emerged from the 1970s and '80s, when the party struggled to find a balance between party insiders and its rank-and-file voters.

Until the 1970s, the nominating process was controlled by party leaders, with ordinary citizens having little say. There were primaries and caucuses, but the delegates were often chosen behind closed doors, sometimes a full year before the national convention. That culminated in a 1968 national convention that didn't reflect the diversity of the party ? racially or ideologically.

The fiasco of the 1968 convention in Chicago, where police battled anti-war protesters in the streets, led to calls for a more inclusive process.

One big change was awarding delegates proportionally, meaning you can finish second or third in a primary and still win delegates to the party's national convention. As long candidates get at least 15 percent of the vote, they are eligible for delegates.

The system enables strong second-place candidates to stay competitive and extend the race ? as long as they don't run out of campaign money.

"For people who want a campaign to end quickly, proportional allocation is a bad system," Devine said. "For people who want a system that is fair and reflective of the voters, it's a much better system."

Another big change was the introduction of superdelegates, the party and elected officials who automatically attend the convention and can vote for whomever they choose regardless of what happens in the primaries and caucuses.

Superdelegates were first seated at the 1984 convention. Much has been made of them this year because neither Obama nor Clinton can reach the number of delegates needed to secure the nomination without their support.

A more subtle change was the distribution of delegates within each state. As part of the proportional system, Democrats award delegates based on statewide vote totals as well as results in individual congressional districts. The delegates, however, are not distributed evenly within a state, like they are in the Republican system.

Under Democratic rules, congressional districts with a history of strong support for Democratic candidates are rewarded with more delegates than districts that are more Republican. Some districts packed with Democratic voters can have as many as eight or nine delegates up for grabs, while more Republican districts in the same state have three or four.

The system is designed to benefit candidates who do well among loyal Democratic constituencies, and none is more loyal than black voters. Obama, who would be the first black candidate nominated by a major political party, has been winning 80 percent to 90 percent of the black vote in most primaries, according to exit polls.

"Black districts always have a large number of delegates because they are the highest performers for the Democratic Party," said Elaine Kamarck, a Harvard University professor who is writing a book about the Democratic nominating process.

"Once you had a black candidate you knew that he would be winning large numbers of delegates because of this phenomenon," said Kamarck, who is also a superdelegate supporting Clinton.

In states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, Clinton won the statewide vote but Obama won enough delegates to limit her gains. In states Obama carried, like Georgia and Virginia, he maximized the number of delegates he won.

"The Obama campaign was very good at targeting districts in areas where they could do well," said former DNC Chairman Don Fowler, a Clinton superdelegate from South Carolina. "They were very conscious and aware of these nuances."

But, Fowler noted, the best strategy in the world would have been useless without the right candidate.

"If that same strategy and that same effort had been used with a different candidate, a less charismatic candidate, a less attractive candidate, it wouldn't have worked," Fowler said. "The reason they look so good is because Obama was so good."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...n_el_pr/obama_strategy

 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
141
116
Doesn't matter because even with Obama getting 0 delegates from Michigan, HE WILL STILL MAINTAIN A PLEDGED DELEGATE LEAD AFTER TUESDAY.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Originally posted by: senseamp
How many votes did Obama get in MI?
Sad. The thing is you really do deserve Clinton, but better people will ensure you don't get her. For your sake.

 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
"Twenty years ago, Thomas A. "Tad" Devine and Harold Ickes negotiated the Democratic Party's proportional method of allocating pledged delegates that has kept this race so tight." (Link)

(to be fair, though, Mark Penn, not Harold Ickes, was apparently Clinton's official campaign chair before Super Tuesday)

 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,035
5,121
126
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: senseamp
How many votes did Obama get in MI?
Sad. The thing is you really do deserve Clinton, but better people will ensure you don't get her. For your sake.
Thank you for rescuing me from another 8 years of Clinton peace and prosperity and giving me Jimmy Carter 2.0 instead.
 
Dec 10, 2005
21,283
2,873
126
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: senseamp
How many votes did Obama get in MI?
Sad. The thing is you really do deserve Clinton, but better people will ensure you don't get her. For your sake.
Thank you for rescuing me from another 8 years of Clinton peace and prosperity and giving me Jimmy Carter 2.0 instead.
Because electing either Obama or Clinton would guarantee your pre-conceived outcomes :roll:
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,183
610
126
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: senseamp
How many votes did Obama get in MI?
Sad. The thing is you really do deserve Clinton, but better people will ensure you don't get her. For your sake.
Thank you for rescuing me from another 8 years of Clinton peace and prosperity and giving me Jimmy Carter 2.0 instead.
Because electing either Obama or Clinton would guarantee your pre-conceived outcomes :roll:
Don't feed the troll.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,471
1
0
Originally posted by: senseamp
How many votes did Obama get in MI?
No one knows. Because he wasn't even registered as a write-in candidate, people who wrote in Obama had their votes thrown away :)

Good for Hillary :thumbsup:

Unfortunately, I think Michigan already picked their delegates for uncommitted :( There were 33 of them and I think most are for Obama anyway. The Clinton campaign addressed this already
 

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