The Kiss(inger) of Death.

[tommywishbone]

Sure... your facts are correct, but KennedyJohnsonNixon never had a "Mission accomplished" banner, so the people could not tell that the USA had actually won. Silly KennedyJohnsonnNixon.

Japans venture into China... The US venture into southeast asia... The Soviet venture into Afghanistan... I see a pattern developing here.

 

[Thump553]

At least they are astute enough to keep him under wraps. Can you image the number of Vietnam flashbacks seeing Kissinger on the tube every night would cause?

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Vietnam was unwinnable.(period)

Isn't this the same rhetoric we're now being spoon fed by the MSM regarding Iraq?

And is the logic here that since we can't defeat them, we may as well throw in the towel? That's ridiculous.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: sandorski
Vietnam was unwinnable.(period)

Isn't this the same rhetoric we're now being spoon fed by the MSM regarding Iraq?

And is the logic here that since we can't defeat them, we may as well throw in the towel? That's ridiculous.

So get up off of your dumb ass and go over there and win the war singlehanded yourself.
You're too dense to understand war policies and governmental politics.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
So get up off of your dumb ass and go over there and win the war singlehanded yourself.

Yes sir, keyboard commando.

You're too dense to understand war policies and governmental politics.

Get the mirror closer.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: sandorski
Vietnam was unwinnable.(period)

Isn't this the same rhetoric we're now being spoon fed by the MSM regarding Iraq?

And is the logic here that since we can't defeat them, we may as well throw in the towel? That's ridiculous.

Well we seem to do much better at fighting wars when the cause is just, not just cause we decided to go to war.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Your "fact sheet" is generally right, but Kissinger is wrong on one point. He says we "lost our will". BS. We lost because we allowed propaganda to take over.

Incidentally, we're fighting the propaganda again now. And many of the same people are at the helm.

Lmao. The Iraq war is the propaganda war par excellence. Never has there been such a propaganda campaign as the one the Bush administration launched as is continuing to this day. You, Pabster, is one of it's main victims.

Mushroom clouds, WMD, Saddam Hussein, Islamofascism, Jennifer Lynch, 9/11, 9/11, Islamofascism, 9/11, 9/11, Islamofascsim, 9/11 etc and so on ad nauseam. All this ring a bell?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Your "fact sheet" is generally right, but Kissinger is wrong on one point. He says we "lost our will". BS. We lost because we allowed propaganda to take over.

Incidentally, we're fighting the propaganda again now. And many of the same people are at the helm.

Yeah right, 50,000 American Servicemens lives weren't wasted on that BS war. Even if we had won we would have lost because if we had won we'd still be losing American Servicemen at a high rate. The Vietnamese had been fight against super powers for a thousand years and never gave up. First it was the Chinese, then it was the French, then the Japanese, again the French and finally us. There was no way in hell they were going to give up. They might have calmed down for a bit but after awhile they would have started up again.

Anyway, besides all the American Lives lost, not winning that war really didn't turn out that bad for us and actually helped Cambodia get rid of a real asshole in Pol Pot whom the Vietnamese helped overthrow and it led to us getting rid of a corrupt President in Nixon.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
So get up off of your dumb ass and go over there and win the war singlehanded yourself.

Yes sir, keyboard commando.

You're too dense to understand war policies and governmental politics.

Get the mirror closer.

Having spent time in the mid 60's stationed in Vietnam with the 1st Cav and actually 'being there',
along with presently waiting for my son to return from Iraq from his second deployment there -
coupled with the fact that I know what is going on, I don't think that it quallifies me as a 'Keyboard Commando'.

What mirror do you think I need to get closer too - the one where I can look over my sholder and see the cowards
like yourself hiding behind false premisises and pushing a flawed agenda with no risk to themselves?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
So get up off of your dumb ass and go over there and win the war singlehanded yourself.

Yes sir, keyboard commando.

You're too dense to understand war policies and governmental politics.

Get the mirror closer.

Having spent time in the mid 60's stationed in Vietnam with the 1st Cav and actually 'being there',
along with presently waiting for my son to return from Iraq from his second deployment there -
coupled with the fact that I know what is going on, I don't think that it quallifies me as a 'Keyboard Commando'.

What mirror do you think I need to get closer too - the one where I can look over my sholder and see the cowards
like yourself hiding behind false premisises and pushing a flawed agenda with no risk to themselves?

Ouch!!!

 

[umbrella39]

One thing that this thread should nail home is the fact that the warmongers revisionist history not only includes things that only happened 1-5 years ago, but it extends all the way back to Vietnam as well. I am not at all surprised.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
So get up off of your dumb ass and go over there and win the war singlehanded yourself.

Yes sir, keyboard commando.

You're too dense to understand war policies and governmental politics.

Get the mirror closer.

Having spent time in the mid 60's stationed in Vietnam with the 1st Cav and actually 'being there',
along with presently waiting for my son to return from Iraq from his second deployment there -
coupled with the fact that I know what is going on, I don't think that it quallifies me as a 'Keyboard Commando'.

What mirror do you think I need to get closer too - the one where I can look over my sholder and see the cowards
like yourself hiding behind false premisises and pushing a flawed agenda with no risk to themselves?

Very well put sir. Young Mr. Pabster could learn a lot from you if he weren't so busy making an ass of himself all the time.

 

[Lemon law]

Point made---Capt Kirk is not a keyboard commando---and has put his life on the line---and now his sons life is on the line---but the policy still failed in VietNam--its failing in Iraq.

The question is and remains---what is the wiser way to win these type fights?---and perhaps the inescapable conclusionsis is that the Kissinger approach of directly confronting the enemy does not work. And more subtle approaches might---but why do we have to put ourselves at odds with the natural force of nationalism when we might use that force to be part of it.

2020 hindsight---the world in the form of the victorious allied forces post ww2 partitioned VietNam.
Dividing one people into two--ineveitable it wanted to reunite---we opposed that and lost.

But now West and East Germany are reunited--without a shot being fired---can we so nudge the two Koreas?

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
So get up off of your dumb ass and go over there and win the war singlehanded yourself.

Yes sir, keyboard commando.

You're too dense to understand war policies and governmental politics.

Get the mirror closer.

Having spent time in the mid 60's stationed in Vietnam with the 1st Cav and actually 'being there',
along with presently waiting for my son to return from Iraq from his second deployment there -
coupled with the fact that I know what is going on, I don't think that it quallifies me as a 'Keyboard Commando'.

What mirror do you think I need to get closer too - the one where I can look over my sholder and see the cowards
like yourself hiding behind false premisises and pushing a flawed agenda with no risk to themselves?

He won't be back after that blistering comment. GJ! :beer:

 

[CaptnKirk]

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/07/31/nixon_considered_nukes_in_viet_war/">Possibly the ONLY thing that Kissinger really did that was constructive,
was to talk Nixon out of using Nukes in Vietnam</a>

He did end up settling the war in 1973 for LESS than he could have obtained on 1969.

 

[DaveSimmons]

As a follow up, there's an AP article today on how taking our attention off of finishing up in Afghanistan is losing us that country too:
5 years later, taliban resurgance

I supported the war in Afghanistan, as did most of the world. If we'd stopped there instead of invading Iraq we might have been able to do a better job winning the peace there as well as keeping the respect of the international community.

 

[Lemon law]

If you care to bring up Afganistan---where the road to 911 started---when we trained and aided the terrorist in ousting the the mean old Russian bear---and then let the country slide into a decade long civil war as we abandoned them as now useless tools that did something useful---but no longer needed now----how is it different from Iraq---or VietNam---same type political problems---same type of leaders who do it for the interests of the US---and don't care about the native peoples.

But same results every time---goes over like lead balloon---anyone notice a pattern here?---even though--in every case---we have the kick butt military power.