The key next step: regulating the financial industry

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
There have been two key components to the government response to the financial meltdown.

The first was the 'emergency bailout' and 'stiumuls' response, which come with whatever questions about especially helping the banking industry.

The second is the need to not allow 'too big to fail' to blackmail the government again (see my sig from Bernie Saunders).

President Obama has spoken strongly on his committment to this second phase, and he's right about it.

However, these are extremely powerful lobbying efforts against that reform, and Obama has not done much to reassure on his Wall Street resistance.

Sometimes, President Obama has seemed to say the right thing but not act on it. We don't want that to happen on the reform for the financial industry.

I encourage everyone to contact their Congressperson and Senators and encourage them to insist on strong reform.

Here's today's Paul Krugman article on Goldman Sachs as a reminder of the problem.

(The Rolling Stone stone article on Goldman Sachs is highly recommended to everyone and was just published online, for free, this week here.)

The Joy of Sachs
by Paul Krugman

The American economy remains in dire straits, with one worker in six unemployed or underemployed. Yet Goldman Sachs just reported record quarterly profits ? and it?s preparing to hand out huge bonuses, comparable to what it was paying before the crisis. What does this contrast tell us?

First, it tells us that Goldman is very good at what it does. Unfortunately, what it does is bad for America.

Second, it shows that Wall Street?s bad habits ? above all, the system of compensation that helped cause the financial crisis ? have not gone away.

Third, it shows that by rescuing the financial system without reforming it, Washington has done nothing to protect us from a new crisis, and, in fact, has made another crisis more likely.

Let?s start by talking about how Goldman makes money.

Over the past generation ? ever since the banking deregulation of the Reagan years ? the U.S. economy has been ?financialized.? The business of moving money around, of slicing, dicing and repackaging financial claims, has soared in importance compared with the actual production of useful stuff. The sector officially labeled ?securities, commodity contracts and investments? has grown especially fast, from only 0.3 percent of G.D.P. in the late 1970s to 1.7 percent of G.D.P. in 2007.

Such growth would be fine if financialization really delivered on its promises ? if financial firms made money by directing capital to its most productive uses, by developing innovative ways to spread and reduce risk. But can anyone, at this point, make those claims with a straight face? Financial firms, we now know, directed vast quantities of capital into the construction of unsellable houses and empty shopping malls. They increased risk rather than reducing it, and concentrated risk rather than spreading it. In effect, the industry was selling dangerous patent medicine to gullible consumers.

Goldman?s role in the financialization of America was similar to that of other players, except for one thing: Goldman didn?t believe its own hype. Other banks invested heavily in the same toxic waste they were selling to the public at large. Goldman, famously, made a lot of money selling securities backed by subprime mortgages ? then made a lot more money by selling mortgage-backed securities short, just before their value crashed. All of this was perfectly legal, but the net effect was that Goldman made profits by playing the rest of us for suckers.

And Wall Streeters have every incentive to keep playing that kind of game.

The huge bonuses Goldman will soon hand out show that financial-industry highfliers are still operating under a system of heads they win, tails other people lose. If you?re a banker, and you generate big short-term profits, you get lavishly rewarded ? and you don?t have to give the money back if and when those profits turn out to have been a mirage. You have every reason, then, to steer investors into taking risks they don?t understand.

And the events of the past year have skewed those incentives even more, by putting taxpayers as well as investors on the hook if things go wrong.

I won?t try to parse the competing claims about how much direct benefit Goldman received from recent financial bailouts, especially the government?s assumption of A.I.G.?s liabilities. What?s clear is that Wall Street in general, Goldman very much included, benefited hugely from the government?s provision of a financial backstop ? an assurance that it will rescue major financial players whenever things go wrong.

You can argue that such rescues are necessary if we?re to avoid a replay of the Great Depression. In fact, I agree. But the result is that the financial system?s liabilities are now backed by an implicit government guarantee.

Now the last time there was a comparable expansion of the financial safety net, the creation of federal deposit insurance in the 1930s, it was accompanied by much tighter regulation, to ensure that banks didn?t abuse their privileges. This time, new regulations are still in the drawing-board stage ? and the finance lobby is already fighting against even the most basic protections for consumers.

If these lobbying efforts succeed, we?ll have set the stage for an even bigger financial disaster a few years down the road. The next crisis could look something like the savings-and-loan mess of the 1980s, in which deregulated banks gambled with, or in some cases stole, taxpayers? money ? except that it would involve the financial industry as a whole.

The bottom line is that Goldman?s blowout quarter is good news for Goldman and the people who work there. It?s good news for financial superstars in general, whose paychecks are rapidly climbing back to precrisis levels. But it?s bad news for almost everyone else.
 

BigDH01

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2005
1,631
88
91
There was never going to be any reform and the people responsible will never be punished. It was a foregone conclusion. Without a lobbying firm to back your efforts, you might as well hang it up because you don't matter.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
They want to push healthcare reform and cap and trade down our throats before they bother fixing what caused this mess. Remember, dont waste a good crisis. Those were Rahm's words, not mine.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
I agree with Krugman here. However nothing will be done. Politicians don't want to regulate Wall Street. They get rich off of Wall Street.
 

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
0
0
Along with trial lawyers Wall Street was Obama's major contributor. Lefties always thinks Wall St is a GOP subgroup but it's not.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
The best quote in that RS article is this:

"If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain ? an extremely unfortunate loophole in the system of Western democratic capitalism, which never foresaw that in a society governed passively by free markets and free elections, organized greed always defeats disorganized democracy."
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
I hope something is done. I heard today that Germany has over $1T in USD toxic crap on theirs but nobody is seriously talking about reform there, either (and honestly they aren't in the US, either). Seems like touching a hot stove twice.

I don't understand the GS profits or any of these other ones recently but something seems extremely vulgar about it.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
Originally posted by: BoberFett
I agree with Krugman here. However nothing will be done. Politicians don't want to regulate Wall Street. They get rich off of Wall Street.

The founders provided ample regulation in the constitution. No central bank, honest money, and limited gov't.
 

Beattie

Golden Member
Sep 6, 2001
1,774
0
0
All this article says is that it's a bad idea to bail out companies... I don't see what is so interesting about that.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Beattie
All this article says is that it's a bad idea to bail out companies... I don't see what is so interesting about that.

That's a bizarrely wrong misreading of the article in saying it only had that one point - but perhaps most surprising is that it doesn't even say the one thing you think it said.

this article says is that it's a bad idea to bail out companies...

You can argue that such rescues are necessary if we?re to avoid a replay of the Great Depression. In fact, I agree.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,398
8,567
126
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: BoberFett
I agree with Krugman here. However nothing will be done. Politicians don't want to regulate Wall Street. They get rich off of Wall Street.

The founders provided ample regulation in the constitution. No central bank, honest money, and limited gov't.

why do you ignore history?
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: BoberFett
I agree with Krugman here. However nothing will be done. Politicians don't want to regulate Wall Street. They get rich off of Wall Street.

The founders provided ample regulation in the constitution. No central bank, honest money, and limited gov't.

Are you saying the founders were infallable in their 18th century thinking?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: BoberFett
I agree with Krugman here. However nothing will be done. Politicians don't want to regulate Wall Street. They get rich off of Wall Street.

The founders provided ample regulation in the constitution. No central bank, honest money, and limited gov't.

Are you saying the founders were infallable in their 18th century thinking?

Are you saying our current government is infallible?
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: BoberFett
I agree with Krugman here. However nothing will be done. Politicians don't want to regulate Wall Street. They get rich off of Wall Street.

The founders provided ample regulation in the constitution. No central bank, honest money, and limited gov't.

Are you saying the founders were infallable in their 18th century thinking?

Are you saying our current government is infallible?

No, but I am making the point that what they knew then isn't what we know now, especially when it comes to the economy. 18th century economics was largely based on smaller barter and/or monetary transactions for agricultural goods. Most transactions were done on a local level with very little international trade, except for luxury goods. Most companies were family owned with very little capital, but even then, were still argicultural based. Primary forms of investment came in land (which is one reason many historians think that the founders went to war, because the British were locking down their land for sale), mostly farmland. It is silly to think that their ideas should apply to our current, or the world's current, economy.

The implications of regulatation or "free markets" were much more narrowly defined then compared to now. To think that the industry could regulate itself is foolish, it is 18th century thinking and deserves to stay there, that is, unless you want to return to kings and queens, or a regional agricultural economy.

If you want that, then go live in Montana in a shack, you have no place here.

The founders also thought that black people were worthless, ignorant, and stupid, and shouldn't vote. Same thing with women.

But hey, we should just adhere strictly to what the Constitution had in it when originally drafted, right?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
The founders also thought that black people were worthless, ignorant, and stupid, and shouldn't vote. Same thing with women.

But hey, we should just adhere strictly to what the Constitution had in it when originally drafted, right?

If you want to amend the constitution there is a clearly laid out process for doing so.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: BoberFett
I agree with Krugman here. However nothing will be done. Politicians don't want to regulate Wall Street. They get rich off of Wall Street.

The founders provided ample regulation in the constitution. No central bank, honest money, and limited gov't.

Are you saying the founders were infallable in their 18th century thinking?

Are you saying our current government is infallible?

No, but I am making the point that what they knew then isn't what we know now, especially when it comes to the economy. 18th century economics was largely based on smaller barter and/or monetary transactions for agricultural goods. Most transactions were done on a local level with very little international trade, except for luxury goods. Most companies were family owned with very little capital, but even then, were still argicultural based. Primary forms of investment came in land (which is one reason many historians think that the founders went to war, because the British were locking down their land for sale), mostly farmland. It is silly to think that their ideas should apply to our current, or the world's current, economy.

The implications of regulatation or "free markets" were much more narrowly defined then compared to now. To think that the industry could regulate itself is foolish, it is 18th century thinking and deserves to stay there, that is, unless you want to return to kings and queens, or a regional agricultural economy.

If you want that, then go live in Montana in a shack, you have no place here.

The founders also thought that black people were worthless, ignorant, and stupid, and shouldn't vote. Same thing with women.

But hey, we should just adhere strictly to what the Constitution had in it when originally drafted, right?

Not strictly true, as anybody who took a little history knows.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: BoberFett
I agree with Krugman here. However nothing will be done. Politicians don't want to regulate Wall Street. They get rich off of Wall Street.

The founders provided ample regulation in the constitution. No central bank, honest money, and limited gov't.

Are you saying the founders were infallable in their 18th century thinking?

Are you saying our current government is infallible?

No, but I am making the point that what they knew then isn't what we know now, especially when it comes to the economy. 18th century economics was largely based on smaller barter and/or monetary transactions for agricultural goods. Most transactions were done on a local level with very little international trade, except for luxury goods. Most companies were family owned with very little capital, but even then, were still argicultural based. Primary forms of investment came in land (which is one reason many historians think that the founders went to war, because the British were locking down their land for sale), mostly farmland. It is silly to think that their ideas should apply to our current, or the world's current, economy.

The implications of regulatation or "free markets" were much more narrowly defined then compared to now. To think that the industry could regulate itself is foolish, it is 18th century thinking and deserves to stay there, that is, unless you want to return to kings and queens, or a regional agricultural economy.

If you want that, then go live in Montana in a shack, you have no place here.

The founders also thought that black people were worthless, ignorant, and stupid, and shouldn't vote. Same thing with women.

But hey, we should just adhere strictly to what the Constitution had in it when originally drafted, right?

Not strictly true, as anybody who took a little history knows.

Not strictly, but many did and it is shown in their papers and ultimate actions.
 

Beattie

Golden Member
Sep 6, 2001
1,774
0
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Beattie
All this article says is that it's a bad idea to bail out companies... I don't see what is so interesting about that.

That's a bizarrely wrong misreading of the article in saying it only had that one point - but perhaps most surprising is that it doesn't even say the one thing you think it said.

this article says is that it's a bad idea to bail out companies...

You can argue that such rescues are necessary if we?re to avoid a replay of the Great Depression. In fact, I agree.

I'll admit I only read every like third paragraph, but

Third, it shows that by rescuing the financial system without reforming it, Washington has done nothing to protect us from a new crisis, and, in fact, has made another crisis more likely.
...
And the events of the past year have skewed those incentives even more, by putting taxpayers as well as investors on the hook if things go wrong.
...
But the result is that the financial system?s liabilities are now backed by an implicit government guarantee.

His point is that goldman profits by abusing the system. And that since the government prevents them from being destroyed by their own failures it enables them to continue to abuse people.

If you?re a banker, and you generate big short-term profits, you get lavishly rewarded ? and you don?t have to give the money back if and when those profits turn out to have been a mirage. You have every reason, then, to steer investors into taking risks they don?t understand.

And the events of the past year have skewed those incentives even more, by putting taxpayers as well as investors on the hook if things go wrong.