• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

The issue of "Moderate" Muslims

cwjerome

Diamond Member
There have been references on P&N to a dearth of so-called "moderate" followers of Islam. Given that the term "moderate" carries some negative baggage (e.g., regarded as synonymous with "lukewarm" or "compromised", etc.) I'll borrow a term I've read before: Adaptive.

Sunday, 28 Jan the NYT published a front page profile entitled "A Cleric's Journey Leads to a Suburban Frontier," which describes the adaptation of Sheik Reda Shata to his new post as Imam of the Masjid Al-Aman mosque in Middletown, New Jersey. Middletown, New Jersey is quite an interesting place with much diversity. BTW, Middletown was hard-hit by 9/11, with 37 residents killed.

Yesterday's article is a follow-up to a 2005 profile done by the NYT of Sheik Shata's experiences as an Imam in Brooklyn. As described in the first NYT profile, he came to Brooklyn from Egypt, by way of Germany. Publication in the 2005 NYT of his adaptations to the realities of the modern world have created some controversy "back home" in Egypt. Coincidentally, in an unrelated article published in the NYT yesterday, the NYT described Egypt as retreating into nostalgic yearnings for the old ways, so in all likelihood, yesterday's profile will make him even more controversial create among the "immoderates" (unadaptive) in Egypt and elsewhere.

Obviously, there are Islamic communities with interest in Imams who can adapt. The orthodoxy of the establishment is often weakest on the "frontier." Clearly, places like the US and Canada will be the center of gravity for Islamic reform.

However, I am not overly optimistic that any of these sprinklings will do much good internationally for many many years. I would also keep a little skepticism when discussing or labeling someone as a "moderate' Muslim. Remember Al-Taqiya; a concept based on Quran 3:28 *2* and 16:106 *3* (as well as extensive hadith, tasfir literature and judicial commentaries) which permits, and encourages, precautionary dissimulation as a means for, among other things, hiding true faith in times of persecution or deception when penetrating the enemy camp.

Precautionary dissimulation is a form of defensive or offensive hiding under false appearances, concealment by feigning, false pretension, or hypocrisy. It's common to exploit cognitive dissonance; Islamic spokesman can baffle interviewers, listeners and readers by using double talk, clichés and platitudes concerning Islam. Perhaps the most famous example was Arafat talking like a reasonable diplomat to western media while whispering "get the bombs" to his henchman under is breath.

Plus, the articles fit well with the NYT philosophy, which editorializes everything. I would be more convinced if I actually saw raw translations of what they tell their flock, rather than reporters. If I were a hard-line imam, I would tell the NYT the same thing.


 
We know it already, you hate muslims.. you pretty much admitted it in the "was 9/11 that bad thread"... do you really need me to quote it? Get over it, all religions, especially christian, have major issues.
 
Why does anyone religious think it is ok to kill another religious person.. YES .. this applies to all of them .. BUT it also directly applies to the Shiite and Sunni BULLSH!T in the middle east right now.. they are total fcktards for killing other due to their beliefs.. they will be recycled by Allah if he/she/it is real....
 
Originally posted by: dahunan
Why does anyone religious think it is ok to kill another religious person.. YES .. this applies to all of them .. BUT it also directly applies to the Shiite and Sunni BULLSH!T in the middle east right now.. they are total fcktards for killing other due to their beliefs.. they will be recycled by Allah if he/she/it is real....

Well, that particular feud is a 1200+ years old, so I don't see that going away anytime soon. Many groups simply believe it's perfectly fine to kill the other side... even more so in some cases because they have to address the enemy within (or believe the other side has lost it's way, like Al-Qaeda killing fellow Sunnis). Same thing happened for a long time with Christianity back in the day.

This is what makes the future somewhat dismal in my mind. We are basically going back to the "normal" routine of mankind. For a strange 200 or so years, the great battles have been ideological (like Hitler, Stalin, Mao). People can change that fairly easily. When conducting a counter-insurgency, you can convince some Malaysian villagers that the Marxist guerillas are bad news. But religion is a whole different animal... it goes to the core of a person's being or soul.
 
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
We know it already, you hate muslims.. you pretty much admitted it in the "was 9/11 that bad thread"... do you really need me to quote it? Get over it, all religions, especially christian, have major issues.

I thought you were going to pull your head outta your ass and spit the sh*t outta your lying mouth already?

Just STFU, because I'm not going to stop talking about issues just because some PC Brownshirt wants to stifle discussion by ad-hom lies.

EDIT: I'll do it for you-- Here's my posts in the thread you claim:

"That's exactly why it's significant... they're NOT representing a country (although countries can be complicit).

The fact that non-government actors will make up a large part of the future threat means a lot of changes about the way we think and the way we conduct business. We are still working through those problems and will be for a long time to come.

Overall it depends on what "that bad" means. I would basically say yes."

AND

"ou are a little right and a lot wrong.

You're a little right in the general gist that 9/11 was pulled off by a small group of low-tech people. The fact that a small group of low-tech people can cause what they did is monumental. It changes... everything. It is simply incredible that our enemies and attacks upon us may not come from nation states but rather groups of people... operating everywhere, including our own USA. This means more than you can imagine to the military, our intel assets, and law enforcement. It is beyond significant.

Your a lot wrong in your dismissal of the attackers as unsophisticated "gang" members. The various extremist groups have an amazingly effective command and control that provide purpose, direction, and motivation.... and always with PSYOPs in mind. They have strategic, operational, and tactical objectives. They take into account a multitude of factors and often have external resources for moral, political, supply, and sanctuary needs. They have various cell organizational patterns that follow complex branches with a variety of cell types (intel, logistical, auxiliary, maneuver, and integrated among others). They have complicated communications networks and strategies.

Oh yes, they are creative and ruthless also
."


 
Why did you bump his thread?

In the other thread he failed to recognize any responsbility the U.S. had in legitimizing and supplying the ME dictators with money and couldn't comprehend that this is why the ME is against the U.S. He is clueless. Let the thread and his bigotry die.
 
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Why did you bump his thread?

In the other thread he failed to recognize any responsbility the U.S. had in legitimizing and supplying the ME dictators with money and couldn't comprehend that this is why the ME is against the U.S. He is clueless. Let the thread and his bigotry die.

 
There are millions of Muslims in the U.S.
Some might come to your rescue when you need help. Some might heal your family when they need healing.

.... They live peacefully with the rest of us.
 
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Why did you bump his thread?

In the other thread he failed to recognize any responsbility the U.S. had in legitimizing and supplying the ME dictators with money and couldn't comprehend that this is why the ME is against the U.S. He is clueless. Let the thread and his bigotry die.

LOL, you sure do spend a lot of effort trying to shut me up by calling me a bigot and admonishing others for contributing to a thread. Have you earned your SS stripes yet? You seriously need to look in the mirror you little PC Nazi.
 
Back
Top