The irony of the BP spill

[cubby1223]

Have any of you noticed that every time cable news outlets gets a conservative talking head versus a "progressive" talking head in a "debate" on the spill cleanup...

The conservative, low taxes, limited government guy screams that the federal government needs to step up and do more to clean up this spill

The "progressive", big government, generally anti-corporation guy screams that the federal government should not be involved in the cleanup efforts, lay it all on the hands of the private industry

We truly are living in bizarro world...




And just a comment on my own, I do believe the biggest problem we have now, is that both the government and B.P. are being super extra cautious in the cleanup efforts to make the strongest case possible as to who is responsible for what liabilities. Instead of just cleaning up the mess we seem to be more concerned over taking care of who's responsibility and liability it is first before any efforts are made. Like the video footage of B.P. workers along the beaches taking frequent breaks throughout the day - on one hand you can call that laziness, on the other hand you can call that protection from the workers lawsuits over heat-related health issues.

If we did not concern ourselves over who is responsible, I would bet the cleanup effort would be going three times as fast as it currently is. But that is just my opinion.

And yes, no news link for the forum police to take note of

 

[child of wonder]

I agree. Far too much finger pointing going on. No one wants to step and do the right thing because they'll lose more money.

 

[Attic]

I agree. Far too much finger pointing going on. No one wants to step and do the right thing because they'll lose more money.

No one acting like a true leader.

 

[rudder]

Have any of you noticed that every time cable news outlets gets a conservative talking head versus a "progressive" talking head in a "debate" on the spill cleanup...

The conservative, low taxes, limited government guy screams that the federal government needs to step up and do more to clean up this spill

The "progressive", big government, generally anti-corporation guy screams that the federal government should not be involved in the cleanup efforts, lay it all on the hands of the private industry

We truly are living in bizarro world...

Just a few points:

1) The United States Code (section 33 forget the specific chapter) tasks the U.S. Government with responding to and cleaning up oil spills. There is even a fund set up for such events: http://uscg.mil/npfc/About_NPFC/osltf.asp?tag=contentMain;contentBody

2) The Federal government issued the drill permit.

3) This is affecting more than one state.

This is why the Federal Government should have been involved from day 1. Why people continue to present it as a "haha look at the limited government loons running to the Federal government" argument... I will never know.

EDIT for point #1:

USC Sec 33
1321(c)...

The President shall, in accordance with the National
Contingency Plan and any appropriate Area Contingency Plan,
ensure effective and immediate removal of a discharge, and
mitigation or prevention of a substantial threat of a discharge,
of oil or a hazardous substance -

If a discharge, or a substantial threat of a discharge, of
oil or a hazardous substance from a vessel, offshore facility, or
onshore facility is of such a size or character as to be a
substantial threat to the public health or welfare of the United
States (including but not limited to fish, shellfish, wildlife,
other natural resources, and the public and private beaches and
shorelines of the United States), the President shall direct all
Federal, State, and private actions to remove the discharge or to
mitigate or prevent the threat of the discharge.

 

[Linflas]

Just a few points:

1) The United States Code (section 33 forget the specific chapter) tasks the U.S. Government with responding to and cleaning up oil spills. There is even a fund set up for such events: http://uscg.mil/npfc/About_NPFC/osltf.asp?tag=contentMain;contentBody

2) The Federal government issued the drill permit.

3) This is affecting more than one state.

This is why the Federal Government should have been involved from day 1. Why people continue to present it as a "haha look at the limited government loons running to the Federal government" argument... I will never know.

Because they purposely confuse the call for a limited, efficient government operating within the confines of the enumerated powers outlined in the Constitution as a dislike of all government.

 

[frostedflakes]

Thank partisanship. It has nothing to do with principles and everything to do with making the other side look bad.

 

[Schadenfroh]

<--- Righty that does not want the government to handle it. Fine them and force them to clean it up, then let companies that lost money (ie fishermen) slap lawsuits on them for lost income.

I remember how wasteful and inefficient FEMA and other government agencies were during Katrina (my county sustained heavy damage). For natural disasters, use the National Guard to provide law and order (martial law), the let private charities and citizens deal with the rest on their own.

For man-made disasters (similar to this one), fine the company responsible and force them to clean it up. Let the courts deal with the damages in regards to lost revenue.

 

[Sclamoz]

Just a few points:

1) The United States Code (section 33 forget the specific chapter) tasks the U.S. Government with responding to and cleaning up oil spills. There is even a fund set up for such events: http://uscg.mil/npfc/About_NPFC/osltf.asp?tag=contentMain;contentBody

2) The Federal government issued the drill permit.

3) This is affecting more than one state.

This is why the Federal Government should have been involved from day 1. Why people continue to present it as a "haha look at the limited government loons running to the Federal government" argument... I will never know.

EDIT for point #1:

USC Sec 33
1321(c)...

The President shall, in accordance with the National
Contingency Plan and any appropriate Area Contingency Plan,
ensure effective and immediate removal of a discharge, and
mitigation or prevention of a substantial threat of a discharge,
of oil or a hazardous substance -

If a discharge, or a substantial threat of a discharge, of
oil or a hazardous substance from a vessel, offshore facility, or
onshore facility is of such a size or character as to be a
substantial threat to the public health or welfare of the United
States (including but not limited to fish, shellfish, wildlife,
other natural resources, and the public and private beaches and
shorelines of the United States), the President shall direct all
Federal, State, and private actions to remove the discharge or to
mitigate or prevent the threat of the discharge.

http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/faqs/cleanup/oil/index.html

5. Who is responsible for cleanup costs incurred under the Oil Pollution Act (OPA)?

Section 1001(32)(B) of the Oil Pollution Act (OPA) states that in the case of an onshore facility, any person owning or operating the facility is the responsible party.

6. Who can be ordered to cleanup an oil spill?

EPA can enter into an agreement or order any person who owns or operates a facility to perform a cleanup under Section 311(c) and/or (e) of the Clean Water Act (CWA), as amended by the Oil Pollution Act (OPA).

 

[Lemon law]

We are basically at week six of the oil spill. But it took over a month for very the first of the oil to travel from the well head to the actual gulf coast, a distance of over 100 miles.

So now that the first 10 days of all has hit the coast and can be cleaned, we have over 50 days of oil that has not made it yet. And months left to go after that because the well is only 50&#37; contained.

And only a tiny bit of that oil is on the ocean surface where it can be contained, skimmed, or burned off well short of land. And now the coast line cleanup is just at a start where BP and other entities can start cleaning it from the land sea border with various oil absorbing materials.

And even that will be wackomole, as soon as we get oil partially cleaned in a given area, more new oil will come in each and every day.

No doubt about it folks, this is by far the biggest oil spill in US history and we have no precedents to guide us in gauging the total damage.

 

[Darwin333]

<--- Righty that does not want the government to handle it. Fine them and force them to clean it up, then let companies that lost money (ie fishermen) slap lawsuits on them for lost income.

I remember how wasteful and inefficient FEMA and other government agencies were during Katrina (my county sustained heavy damage). For natural disasters, use the National Guard to provide law and order (martial law), the let private charities and citizens deal with the rest on their own.

For man-made disasters, fine the company responsible and force them to clean it up. Let the courts deal with the damages in regards to lost revenue.

Because that is working so well right now... Between BPs inability or unwillingness to act quick enough when oil is approaching land and the various Federal agencies sheer incompetence preventing mitigation and cleanup efforts we might be better off with the Girl Scouts running the show.

With that said, do you really think its a good idea to let a private company be in charge of protecting our national security from am imminent threat? What about an explosion at a refinery, do you wait for the private company put the fire out and risk burning down half the city or do you send in the government paid firefighters to put out the fire?

You also do realize that BP will never be able to fully pay for the damages that have been done right? The loss of tourism income to the Gulf states alone will be staggering. The loss of revenue and the 10's of thousands of jobs lost due to the retarded moratorium will be huge as well. BP will go bankrupt before they ever pay the true cost of this mess but the really tragic part is it didn't have to be nearly this bad. A lot of the damages that have occurred could have been mitigated had the Feds gave a shit.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Flawed argument. Conservatives don't believe in NO government, they believe in LIMITED government. I think this situation, as it impacts the entire country and multiple states directly by the oil itself, it makes sense for the Feds to have a role as I don't believe BP has the financial resources to make SURE its stopped and make SURE its cleaned up. I am all for making BP pay for it, but if BP closes shop and goes out of business, then what?

What conservatives have a problem with is government telling us we can't purchase food with a certain about of salt in it, or the feds saying we can open a business and allow smoking, or the feds telling us we can't own a gun in our own homes to protect ourselves. Entirely different than saying the Feds SHOULD get involved in the biggest oil spill in our history.

 

[IGBT]

the eco-KOOKS own this disaster. it' their policies that resulted drilling rigs being pushed out into deeper risk laden waters. This is a serra club disaster.

 

[JSt0rm]

the eco-KOOKS own this disaster. it' their policies that resulted drilling rigs being pushed out into deeper risk laden waters. This is a serra club disaster.

Thats what I said about that bitch who got raped. That skirt was so short she wanted it...yeah. ()

 

[0roo0roo]

you think thats bad, you should have watched uk news. it was all about a supposed anti british sentiment in the us because of the obama comment there couldn't have been more of a journalism fail there. I guess its because they have an underlying anti american sentiment in their country so if the shoe was on the other foot they really would hate us

 

[dammitgibs]

So if the city wants all the cops to mow everyone's lawn and I get upset about that, then when I get robbed and I call the cops to come help me the people who were in favor of the lawn mowing will say "oh you were against the cops then but now you want them to help"

Yah that seems about right

 

[Jaskalas]

Americans are smart enough to know there&#8217;s a big difference between how the government reacts in a major disaster, or a war, versus how it encroaches into their lives more and more on any given day.

For the OP.

 

[StageLeft]

the eco-KOOKS own this disaster. it' their policies that resulted drilling rigs being pushed out into deeper risk laden waters. This is a serra club disaster.

Heh, they cared TOO MUCH about the environment. Should have just left it up to the corporations, eh!

 

[Jaskalas]

Heh, they cared TOO MUCH about the environment. Should have just left it up to the corporations, eh!

Should have let them drill in safer locations, is the argument.

 

[Danube]

Have any of you noticed that every time cable news outlets gets a conservative talking head versus a "progressive" talking head in a "debate" on the spill cleanup...

The conservative, low taxes, limited government guy screams that the federal government needs to step up and do more to clean up this spill

The "progressive", big government, generally anti-corporation guy screams that the federal government should not be involved in the cleanup efforts, lay it all on the hands of the private industry

We truly are living in bizarro world...

As usual the lbs got things backwards. With Katrina the state and locals were first in line of responsibility. Now it's the feds job to handle a huge problem 40 miles off shore. States don't have the resources that Army Corps of Engineers can provide.

 

[JSt0rm]

Should have let them drill in safer locations, is the argument.

and a fail argument considering non of the same tactics used worked in 200 feet of water.

 

[StageLeft]

Should have let them drill in safer locations, is the argument.

I know, but it's just all so ridiculous. Like a teenager telling her dad she's pregnant and him getting mad and her saying "well, I wanted to have him over to snuggle and watch and a movie and you said no so instead we went into his car and made a baby".

Nobody forced BP to do a fvcking damn thing in deep water. It was given an option to drill there or not, took it, screwed up, it's that simple. Now, if all its employees were on the brink of starvation maybe there's a case, but they weren't, it was simply chasing money as companies do and it severely miscalculated what the hell it was doing.

 

[bfdd]

I know, but it's just all so ridiculous. Like a teenager telling her dad she's pregnant and him getting mad and her saying "well, I wanted to have him over to snuggle and watch and a movie and you said no so instead we went into his car and made a baby".

Nobody forced BP to do a fvcking damn thing in deep water. It was given an option to drill there or not, took it, screwed up, it's that simple. Now, if all its employees were on the brink of starvation maybe there's a case, but they weren't, it was simply chasing money as companies do and it severely miscalculated what the hell it was doing.

You're missing a crucial piece to your last paragraph "then the government signed off on it."

The better idea though instead of chasing tails so we can find someone to point the finger at is to actually fix the problem then worry about it later. Fixing the problem is well a whole other problem itself. The only thing I wish would happen is everyone who has no fucking clue about anything would shut the fuck up.

 

[Anarchist420]

The only thing the government should do is force BP to pay all the estimated damages.

 

[Nemesis 1]

What is the damages for destroying ever americans life. You see how fair this judgement is the world is being poisened and all you care about is the $$$$$$$.

Its a horrafing thing for me to look out my door and see the same ever where. His will be done his judgement is rightious.