The irony of communism

[ShawnD1]

I'm watching a video about North Korea. A North Korean man allowed to speak to the camera explains how the country relies on the strength of individuals. If the government cannot supply things like shovels or hoes for farming, it is up to individual to forge his own tools. If you need clothes, you make your own. If there is no petrol to run an engine, you find something else that will work in its place. Without a trace of intentional irony, the man says that the strength of Korea comes from the strength of the people.

Contrast that with your own culture. I did not make my own clothes, and I do not make my own tools. I completely rely on others to do those things for me. I turn on the faucet and I expect water. I plug things into the wall and I expect electricity. In a land where we champion individual strength, most of our strength comes from our ability to work together and rely on each other. Unlike the Koreans, most of us are not proficient in a broad range of skill sets. Can you name 5 people capable of making their own clothes? Have you ever needed to cast your own tools? We have formed a society where we completely rely on each other for survival. We have achieved the communist goals while the communists have not.

 

[Matt1970]

That's because they are led by a tyrannical madman and they are far more of a totalitarian Stalinist dictatorship than anything else.

 

[DrPizza]

I can name dozens of people who can make their own clothes. It's not that hard. Only a couple of decades ago, it was extremely common. Wow, and now that I think about it, in addition to knowing people who can run a sewing machine, I know a lot of people who crochet & knit.

As far as tools - again, I know many people who do make a least a few of their own tools; not as many as the number of people I know who can make their own clothes though.

 

[feralkid]

I can name dozens of people who can make their own clothes. It's not that hard. Only a couple of decades ago, it was extremely common. Wow, and now that I think about it, in addition to knowing people who can run a sewing machine, I know a lot of people who crochet & knit.

As far as tools - again, I know many people who do make a least a few of their own tools; not as many as the number of people I know who can make their own clothes though.

Absolutely the same here...I know people who make leather (buckskin, elk buffalo) moccasins, wallets, jackets, who know the people who actually tan the hides, which come from people who hunt and SLAUGHTER the beasts. I know people who can cast metal, forge tools, grow their own meat and veggies, brew their their own beer, rebuild aircraft engines, make their own fricken goat yogurt, hell; Lynn Rossetto Casper renders her own lard on PBS, We gotsa lotsa fresh chicken and duck eggs from some hippies out in the county who also supply local yupster restaurants..do you people live under a rock beneath Walmart? There's a whole world right under your feet if you bother to take notice.

 

[werepossum]

I can name dozens of people who can make their own clothes. It's not that hard. Only a couple of decades ago, it was extremely common. Wow, and now that I think about it, in addition to knowing people who can run a sewing machine, I know a lot of people who crochet & knit.

As far as tools - again, I know many people who do make a least a few of their own tools; not as many as the number of people I know who can make their own clothes though.

Absolutely the same here...I know people who make leather (buckskin, elk buffalo) moccasins, wallets, jackets, who know the people who actually tan the hides, which come from people who hunt and SLAUGHTER the beasts. I know people who can cast metal, forge tools, grow their own meat and veggies, brew their their own beer, rebuild aircraft engines, make their own fricken goat yogurt, hell; Lynn Rossetto Casper renders her own lard on PBS, We gotsa lotsa fresh chicken and duck eggs from some hippies out in the county who also supply local yupster restaurants..do you people live under a rock beneath Walmart? There's a whole world right under your feet if you bother to take notice.

His point though is still valid, though his example was badly selected. Civilization as we know it only became possible when agriculture could produce enough of a surplus, year after year, to support specialists. All those people you two name no doubt purchase the bulk of what they consume, just a smaller portion of it than do the rest of us. That's important because producing greater wealth depends on these specialists. Who really thinks that the average farmer, welder, etc. is more productive using his own home-made tools than using mass-produced tools? By taking so much from the common man, the North Korean Communist government has actually broken the cycle of civilization and progress.

I'm not sure I absolutely agree that it is irony, since one of the core principles of Marxism is to make everyone (except those in power) the same, and reducing them to individual self-sufficient units certainly does that by preventing any disparities in wealth due to specialization - though of course there will still be disparities in wealth due to different levels of skill and work ethic unless the government continuously seizes and redistributes wealth. But there's certainly an argument to be made for its being irony.

 

[rudder]

Here in the U.S. I have the choice whether to be self sufficent and make my own clothes, grow my own food, etc. I choose to pay someone else to do that.

In North Korea that is a necessity to survive... not a choice.


[CUE] Hank Williams Jr.[/CUE]
I live back in the woods, you see
A woman and the kids, and the dogs and me
I got a shotgun rifle and a 4-wheel drive
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

I can plow a field all day long
I can catch catfish from dusk till dawn
We make our own whiskey and our own smoke too
Ain’t too many things these ole boys can’t do
We grow good ole tomatoes and homemade wine
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

Because you can’t starve us out
And you cant makes us run
Cuz we're them old boys raised on shotgun
And we say grace and we say Ma’am
And if you ain’t into that we don’t give a damn

We came from the West Virginia coalmines
And the Rocky Mountains and the and the western skies
And we can skin a buck; we can run a trot-line
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

 

[Macamus Prime]

Let's see, you ,...
1) do not seem to know anything about communism, and
2) can't seem to realize that North Korea is a dictatorship, a tyrannical on at that

When someone is claiming to be on thing, yet they are exhibiting behavior that is something other than what they claim to be; they are portraying a lie.

 

[Jaskalas]

The irony is that they are in extreme poverty and all their wealth goes to a select few. That's what happens when you have too much government, it replaces the corporation and has nothing to stop it.

 

[her209]

Specialization is not exclusive to capitalism. Look at China.

 

[Atreus21]

OP, you might enjoy a video called "When Ideas Have Sex" by...I think his name is Steven Ridley, or maybe Matt Ridley. Look it up on youtube. It covers relevant topics in this discussion. I'd link to it but youtube is blocked at work.

He says poverty these days used to be called self-sufficiency.

Edit: I think Steven Ridley is a running back for the Saints...or is it LSU...so it must be Matt Ridley.

 

[ShawnD1]

OP, you might enjoy a video called "When Ideas Have Sex" by...I think his name is Steven Ridley, or maybe Matt Ridley. Look it up on youtube. It covers relevant topics in this discussion. I'd link to it but youtube is blocked at work.

He says poverty these days used to be called self-sufficiency.

Will do. Thanks for the suggestion :thumbsup:

 

[Atreus21]

Let's see, you ,...
1) do not seem to know anything about communism, and
2) can't seem to realize that North Korea is a dictatorship, a tyrannical on at that

When someone is claiming to be on thing, yet they are exhibiting behavior that is something other than what they claim to be; they are portraying a lie.

It's funny that attempts at communist states seem to devolve into oppressive dictatorships.

 

[Jaskalas]

OP, you might enjoy a video called "When Ideas Have Sex" by...I think his name is Steven Ridley, or maybe Matt Ridley. Look it up on youtube. It covers relevant topics in this discussion. I'd link to it but youtube is blocked at work.

He says poverty these days used to be called self-sufficiency.

Edit: I think Steven Ridley is a running back for the Saints...or is it LSU...so it must be Matt Ridley.

You must be madly jealous of the North Korean's 'self-sufficiency'.

 

[rudder]

It's funny that attempts at communist states seem to devolve into oppressive dictatorships.

That would be the only way the leaders can keep power. Once the peons see that they are waiting 4 hours for a stale loaf of bread while the leaders eat cavier... they tend to get pissed. They will need to oppress the population or the peons may go after their riches.

 

[feralkid]

His point though is still valid, though his example was badly selected.

Agree...North Korea is not a good example of...well just about anything good.