The human rights community finally notices the Taliban's war crimes.

[Paratus]

From Slate:

http://www.slate.com/id/2285025/

The turning point, in the mind of the human rights "activists," appears to have occurred in late January, when a Taliban suicide-murderer killed at least 14 civilians in the Finest Supermarket in Kabul. Among the slain was a well-known local campaigner named Hamida Barmaki, whose husband and four small children were also killed. One wonders in what sense this was the Taliban going too far—women are killed and mutilated by them every single day in Afghanistan. Yet let the terror reach one of the upscale markets or hotels that cater to the NGO constituency in Kabul, and suddenly there is an abrupt change from moral neutrality.

While I understand criticizing the side that might listen and won't kill you, it's pretty sad when it takes 8 years and a colleague and his family being blown up to reassess your position. Especially when human rights groups had already drawn attention to Taliban abuses prior to 2001.

 

[Texashiker]

The human rights community finally notices the Taliban's war crimes.

If its done in the name of religion, is it really war crimes, or crimes against humanity?

If those acts are crimes against humanity / war crimes, how does that affect human rights groups viewpoint on Islam?

 

[bfdd]

L O FUCKING L. This is to funny. What fucking world were these people living in before they opened their damn eyes? Fucking retards and those are the kind of retards that get so much damn support from idiots in 1st world nations because idiots here project the way they view the world onto people who have never even heard the words freedom or liberty.

 

[CycloWizard]

The kind of person who is willing to blow himself and others up for any reason whatsoever is obviously not someone who cares about human rights. That's why these groups are meaningless.

 

[Zebo]

Human rights orgs are blame America firsters. If that fails poverty is to blame. They will never blame people they see as lessors and can't think for themselves. Their racism and patronizing is insulting and I'd like nothing more than to dump them in the middle of Pakistan to try and teach their values to these poor misunderstood people.

 

[Lemon law]

I have no problem with regarding A PART of the Taliban as one on going international war crime. The Problem only comes when we are forced to regard A PART of Nato as one on ongoing international war crime.

Worse yet, when we deal with a basket case nation like Afghanistan, in which another part of the Taliban were the cure for previous set of thug's on going war crimes and simple thievery, then and only then can we start to partly understand the Afghan problem. As Afghanistan goes through a long sequence where one group of international war criminals displace another and in turn get displaced by another group using international war crimes. Since Nato has embraced international war crimes status also, Afghanistan still lacks that entity that does not embrace war crimes and corruption to break the vicious cycle Afghanistan has been in for at least 30+ years.

 

[Karl Agathon]

Human rights orgs are blame America firsters.

+1000 :thumbsup:

 

[Lemon law]

Ole Kral Agathon has to ne the most clueless person on earth to say "Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebo View Post
Human rights orgs are blame America firsters.
+1000 "

This kind of human shit behavior is older than dirt, its existed long before the American revolution was even started, and it will exist into the long term human future regardless if America still exists.

Status quo nations always try to resist inevitable change, and are usually the long term term losers in the end.

 

[werepossum]

From Slate:

http://www.slate.com/id/2285025/



While I understand criticizing the side that might listen and won't kill you, it's pretty sad when it takes 8 years and a colleague and his family being blown up to reassess your position. Especially when human rights groups had already drawn attention to Taliban abuses prior to 2001.

Quite true. Reminds me of PETA jumping in to the Palestinian conflict because the Palestinians used a donkey to blow up some Jews. When your problem is not with murdering innocent civilians but only with killing a donkey while doing it, you have nothing worth hearing to contribute and just need to shut the hell up. Same with human rights groups who fail to criticize terrorists and murderous government because you know they'll target you. By criticizing only the better side, these groups actually give aid and comfort to the side most egregiously doing the very thing they purport to be against.

Human rights orgs are blame America firsters. If that fails poverty is to blame. They will never blame people they see as lessors and can't think for themselves. Their racism and patronizing is insulting and I'd like nothing more than to dump them in the middle of Pakistan to try and teach their values to these poor misunderstood people.

Quite true, and well said.

 

[CPA]

L O FUCKING L. This is to funny. What fucking world were these people living in before they opened their damn eyes? Fucking retards and those are the kind of retards that get so much damn support from idiots in 1st world nations because idiots here project the way they view the world onto people who have never even heard the words freedom or liberty.

But, if we only listened to them, really listened, and were more tolerant, yeah, that's it, more tolerant of our differences, we could all live in a peaceful world filled with kindness and jelly bean rainbows.

 

[CPA]

Human rights orgs are blame America firsters. If that fails poverty is to blame, which according to the same HRO's is a result of rich Americans. They will never blame people they see as lessors and can't think for themselves. Their racism and patronizing is insulting and I'd like nothing more than to dump them in the middle of Pakistan to try and teach their values to these poor misunderstood people.

ftfy

 

[Lemon law]

Where the hell does all this shit come from? That somehow we, in the western world can somehow be the the enlightened ones who can somehow tell the people of Afghanistan or Pakistan what is right and wrong, and what is an international war crime and what is not.

Sadly the acid test is that the judge, jury, and executioner of those judgments belong only to the people of only Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And even if I am on long record as a critic of Nato policy, I have also been on long record that the Taliban is playing the wrong song for the future of both countries.

But what is sad, sorry, and somehow shocking is that the facts are undeniable, Nato policy in Afghanistan and Pakistan somehow places Nato in second place in a beauty
contest with the Taliban.

Earth to this forum, earth to Western world, earth to the larger world, how in the hell can Nato be so so stupid and ugly to somehow come in second in a beauty contest to the Taliban? Yet Nato has somehow managed that feat.

Yaya, tell me again, the fault is only with the Afghan people and not with Nato.

 

[davmat787]

Lemon Law, did you notice the person killed was a listed as a "well known local campaigner" named Hamida Barmaki?

 

[Lemon law]

Lemon Law, did you notice the person killed was a listed as a "well known local campaigner" named Hamida Barmaki?

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Yes as a matter of fact I did. Another innocent person murdered in a senseless war of tit for tat violence. A war that has been on gong in Afghanistan for nine years and with no end in sight.

Nato is too well armed to be removed, but way to small to be able to hold any territory. The Taliban are too diverse and effective to be dislodged, but hold more territory than Nato does. Meanwhile the Karzai government is totally corrupt and so ineffective, that Afghanistan is in a state of anarchy.

Yet daymat787 somehow thinks, if human right groups call the Taliban a bunch of international war criminals, its going to make the Taliban stop?

Actually there are ways for Nato to beat the Taliban non-violently, but that require some thought and commitment which Nato is seemingly incapable of.

Fortunately for Afghanistan, the raw numbers killed is a tiny fraction of that of Iraq.

 

[werepossum]

Where the hell does all this shit come from? That somehow we, in the western world can somehow be the the enlightened ones who can somehow tell the people of Afghanistan or Pakistan what is right and wrong, and what is an international war crime and what is not.

Sadly the acid test is that the judge, jury, and executioner of those judgments belong only to the people of only Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And even if I am on long record as a critic of Nato policy, I have also been on long record that the Taliban is playing the wrong song for the future of both countries.

But what is sad, sorry, and somehow shocking is that the facts are undeniable, Nato policy in Afghanistan and Pakistan somehow places Nato in second place in a beauty
contest with the Taliban.

Earth to this forum, earth to Western world, earth to the larger world, how in the hell can Nato be so so stupid and ugly to somehow come in second in a beauty contest to the Taliban? Yet Nato has somehow managed that feat.

Yaya, tell me again, the fault is only with the Afghan people and not with Nato.

I think the people who agree with you and aren't waving their butts westwards five times a day could hold your meeting in, well, a Democrat Senator's office.

 

[IKnoWhatsBest4U]

This is why Obama asked the troops for their support in protecting the Afghanistan people. You can't negotiate with this level of crazy. The only responsible course of action now is to send enough troops to actually protect the Afghani people.

If we left now it'd be a slaughterhouse. The Taliban would regain power and silence any US/NATO supporters.

 

[Lemon law]

Gotta love that Lknowhatsbest4u quote of "If we left now it'd be a slaughterhouse. The Taliban would regain power and silence any US/NATO supporters."

What is Nato's policy, its exactly that, to murder on sight any Taliban member and anyone even suspected of being in contact with a Taliban member.

In reality the Afghan people have even a little tougher than that, because if the Taliban don't kill them Nato will, and if they somehow still survive those threats, a corrupt Afghan government official will rape their daughters and steal their property.

And the even bigger beauty of the whole thing is, its been this way for nine years now, and its just a getting started. Every peace loving man woman and child yearns to live their entire lives inside of a shooting gallery slaughterhouse that will never end.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Gotta love that Lknowhatsbest4u quote of "If we left now it'd be a slaughterhouse. The Taliban would regain power and silence any US/NATO supporters."

What is Nato's policy, its exactly that, to murder on sight any Taliban member and anyone even suspected of being in contact with a Taliban member.

In reality the Afghan people have even a little tougher than that, because if the Taliban don't kill them Nato will, and if they somehow still survive those threats, a corrupt Afghan government official will rape their daughters and steal their property.

And the even bigger beauty of the whole thing is, its been this way for nine years now, and its just a getting started. Every peace loving man woman and child yearns to live their entire lives inside of a shooting gallery slaughterhouse that will never end.

Except your point falls completely flat on its face because anyone with half a brain understands that NATO has no actual intention of killing any innocent civilians in order to accomplish their military goals and in fact if NATO forces can reasonably do so they will go the extra mile to prevent such deaths. Innocent civilian killed by NATO forces are a matter of tragic circumstances not willful intent. The Taliban on the other hand doesn't give two shits about killing people (be they innocent or not) to achieve their agenda or to make a point.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Except your point falls completely flat on its face because anyone with half a brain understands that NATO has no actual intention of killing any innocent civilians in order to accomplish their military goals and in fact if NATO forces can reasonably do so they will go the extra mile to prevent such deaths. Innocent civilian killed by NATO forces are a matter of tragic circumstances not willful intent. The Taliban on the other hand doesn't give two shits about killing people (be they innocent or not) to achieve their agenda or to make a point.

I'm thinking it's time to GTFO and that includes NATO and then watch how a gentler kinder society takes over. Let me guess. They'll get blamed if they stay and they'll get blamed if they leave. Well, that being the case exit stage left. The politicians have pretty much made a Somalia out of things so there's no sense in dying for any more Aidids.

 

[Nebor]

Yeah, I wonder how Lemon Law reconciles his beliefs about NATO with the fact that we go through great trouble and expense to try to bring the Taliban to the peace jirgas and negotiating table year after year. What do we get in response? Rockets, VBIEDs and suicide bombers.

Were there upscale super markets and shopping malls before we arrived? Nope.

 

[Lemon law]

Yeah, I wonder how Lemon Law reconciles his beliefs about NATO with the fact that we go through great trouble and expense to try to bring the Taliban to the peace jirgas and negotiating table year after year. What do we get in response? Rockets, VBIEDs and suicide bombers.

Were there upscale super markets and shopping malls before we arrived? Nope.

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Nebor, you are totally confused, I am not a cheer leader for either the Taliban or Nato. I am just telling you you which side is losing and winning. And why.

The Nato side is losing, as an American I am extremely unhappy about that, but cheerleaders like you don't really influence the outcome.

Get a clue Nebor, sadly the Nato side is losing, and all your vainglorious cheerleading will not change the trend line outcome.

Now if you want to grow a brain Nebor, please join me and start advocating the Nato policies changes required for Nato to win.

 

[davmat787]

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Yes as a matter of fact I did. Another innocent person murdered in a senseless war of tit for tat violence. A war that has been on gong in Afghanistan for nine years and with no end in sight.

Nato is too well armed to be removed, but way to small to be able to hold any territory. The Taliban are too diverse and effective to be dislodged, but hold more territory than Nato does. Meanwhile the Karzai government is totally corrupt and so ineffective, that Afghanistan is in a state of anarchy.

Yet daymat787 somehow thinks, if human right groups call the Taliban a bunch of international war criminals, its going to make the Taliban stop?

Actually there are ways for Nato to beat the Taliban non-violently, but that require some thought and commitment which Nato is seemingly incapable of.

Fortunately for Afghanistan, the raw numbers killed is a tiny fraction of that of Iraq.

Actually I was just pointing out that the person killed was a local. And you are wrong: I don't think a label on the Taliban from some international group will make a damn bit of difference.

Seriously, what do you think NATO should do? I agree something needs to change actually.

 

[Nebor]

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Nebor, you are totally confused, I am not a cheer leader for either the Taliban or Nato. I am just telling you you which side is losing and winning. And why.

The Nato side is losing, as an American I am extremely unhappy about that, but cheerleaders like you don't really influence the outcome.

Get a clue Nebor, sadly the Nato side is losing, and all your vainglorious cheerleading will not change the trend line outcome.

Now if you want to grow a brain Nebor, please join me and start advocating the Nato policies changes required for Nato to win.

Really? What did you see that most convinced you that NATO was LOSING the last time YOU were in Afghanistan?

Because I saw NATO soldiers risking their necks to build infrastructure, train Afghan security forces and hand out humanitarian aid, all the while keeping our casualty numbers much, much lower than that of the enemy. I saw "courageous restraint" being exercised even though the same handful of communities were the source of 90% of VBIEDs and indirect fire.

If you want NATO to win, how about you stop booing us from the sidelines and step on the field to actually make a difference?

 

[Lemon law]

Really? What did you see that most convinced you that NATO was LOSING the last time YOU were in Afghanistan?

Because I saw NATO soldiers risking their necks to build infrastructure, train Afghan security forces and hand out humanitarian aid, all the while keeping our casualty numbers much, much lower than that of the enemy. I saw "courageous restraint" being exercised even though the same handful of communities were the source of 90% of VBIEDs and indirect fire.

If you want NATO to win, how about you stop booing us from the sidelines and step on the field to actually make a difference?

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Please tell us all about all those German and Japanese soldiers who were there in the field and saw their asses kicked.

So much for your idea Nebor that you gotta be there or be square.

Or maybe we should talk about all those US Soldiers who served in Vietnam, but because our defective US leadership, all their efforts were in vain. Sure the USA gave better than we got, only 58,000 killed v 2 million Vietnamese. Do you really think that the USA lost in Vietnam because each and every US military personnel was evil, and somehow that Afghanistan is different because some US personnel are decent?

Why don't you Nebor, grow a brain, and realize that our Nato strategy is defective, and until Nato corrects its defects, Nato has no hope of winning.
Grow brain Nebor, as long as Nato tries to sell a turd of a Karzai corrupt government to the Afghan people, Nato cannot win. No way, No how will that work.

Do you, Nebor, really really think, that if you and I cheer lead hard enough, Nato will win when it does everything to alienate the Afghan people?????????????

 

[Nebor]

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Please tell us all about all those German and Japanese soldiers who were there in the field and saw their asses kicked.

So much for your idea Nebor that you gotta be there or be square.

Or maybe we should talk about all those US Soldiers who served in Vietnam, but because our defective US leadership, all their efforts were in vain. Sure the USA gave better than we got, only 58,000 killed v 2 million Vietnamese. Do you really think that the USA lost in Vietnam because each and every US military personnel was evil, and somehow that Afghanistan is different because some US personnel are decent?

Why don't you Nebor, grow a brain, and realize that our Nato strategy is defective, and until Nato corrects its defects, Nato has no hope of winning.
Grow brain Nebor, as long as Nato tries to sell a turd of a Karzai corrupt government to the Afghan people, Nato cannot win. No way, No how will that work.

Do you, Nebor, really really think, that if you and I cheer lead hard enough, Nato will win when it does everything to alienate the Afghan people?????????????

Is English your second language or something? That post was nearly unintelligible.

My point was that cheering one way or the other accomplishes nothing. I'm not cheering. I'm doing. So if you hate NATO, hop on a flight to Pakistan and tell the Taliban you want to join their cause. Otherwise there's a host of ISAF nations that need soldiers.

I'm not going to argue details with you, since you've never been there and don't know what you're talking about, but the Iraq strategy of creating a strong, secure capital is being implemented. Kabul is WON. Done. Over. The insurgency cannot effectively operate in Kabul. Mezar-i-Sharif is WON. Done. Over. Herat is WON. Done. Over. Kandahar city will be the next big hurdle.

Once the major cities are all secure and operating in a way that supports the surrounding economies, and the ANSF are built and trained to a point of operational independence, then they can take over the all out war that's taking place on the eastern border with Pakistan.

If we have the willpower and determination to remain in Afghanistan for 50-60 more years, we can win.