Hey guys, I have recently seen a movie called From Freedom To Fascism that basically outlines the creating of the Federal Reserve and the direction of the United States toward a New World Order or a One World Government. The movie claims the Federal Reserve which is responsible for loaning the US Govt. money is owned by private bankers who control the direction of government. The movie makes the presumption that elections have been rigged and do not matter, and that the world will soon be controlled by the ultra-elites and the rest of us will be their slaves. The movie also claims that there is no law that says you have to pay income tax and the income tax is used soley to pay for the interest on the loans issued by the Fed Reserve to the government. If any of you have any insight and can explain more in depth what is really going on without partisan slandering please do so. If this is really happening then I am deeply disturbed by this. Thanks.
The history of federal reserve and income taxes
- Thread starter bipartisanpwnage
- Start date
Brainonska511
Lifer
- Dec 10, 2005
- 24,078
- 6,889
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OMG! MAKE IT STOP!
Edit:
I suggest reading LegendKiller's responses to the massive Federal Reserve threads.
Edit:
I suggest reading LegendKiller's responses to the massive Federal Reserve threads.
There is a cult-like group of people who have adopted these views. It's less important whether they have some legitimate complaints - who doesn't with any system as large and complex - than that they are so significantly misguided on big issues, take for just one example their false claim about income taxes. The US constitution was explicitly amended to allow just such a tax, and plenty of people are sitting in jail who believed their claims.
This group seems to fit within those described in a classic commentary, "The Paranoid Style in American Policis".
Whenever you have large organizations, ill-informed fear of conspiracies by secret powerful groups don't seem far behind.
It's not that there aren't any such conspiracies - there is certainly 'conspiratorial behavior' in many ways, often even innocent to the participants who simply adopt ideologies that are more harmful than they realize (people who slaughtered native Americans and had slaves tended to have ideologies telling them they were not acting immorally) - but rather how wrong the paranoia makes these people, chasing ghosts.
The antidote - get informed.
Subscribe to Harper's Magazine (the publisher of the above article) and The Atlantic, read books by people such as Paul Krugman and David Cay Johnston and Naomi Klein, read web sites such as Salon.com and www.commondreams.org. These are essential resources to not falling victim to propaganda or misinformation.
XZeroII
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2001
- 12,572
- 0
- 0
I know a guy who spent years studying and believing this. He had a huge house and lots of money and toys. He tried not paying his taxes for years while following the advice of supposedly very smart people and also doing a lot of research on his own. It was truly amazing how smart this guy seemed.
He now has pretty much nothing and I believe that the government is currently hunting him down for hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes that he owes. I heard that he is hiding out somewhere but I really don't want anyone to know that I actually know this guy so I don't ask questions.
He now has pretty much nothing and I believe that the government is currently hunting him down for hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes that he owes. I heard that he is hiding out somewhere but I really don't want anyone to know that I actually know this guy so I don't ask questions.
Okay so ive been skimming threads about the federal reserve and its basically just a bunch of people arguing and not saying much. How exactly does the federal reserve work?
Don't rely on YouTube videos for your education. Pick up some books that present things from all sides, including the Fed's own website to see how it actually runs.
The internet is a powerful tool, but one that gives a dangerously vocal voice to the misinformed and mentally insane.
Taxes paid is over 1Tr per year. Total Federal debt = 11tr. Weighted average coupon of federal debt is probably somewhere around 2%. 11tr *.02 = 220bn. We know that most of the debt isn't owned by the Federal Reserve, since China, Japan, Europe, and US citizens own the vast majority.
Federal debt owned by the Federal Reserve bears the same coupon as regular US debt. That money goes to the Federal Reserve and is then dividended out to the Federal Reserve banks, is used for overhead costs, and the remainder is given to the US government (about 80bn as of a few years ago).
The Federal Reserve district banks are owned by every member bank within the district. Thus, every bank, such as Capital One, Wells Fargo, US Bank, Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, or any other bank regulated by the Federal REserve (which is most banks) own shares in the Federal Reserve (which is part of the "Reserve" part). It is easy to find out whether a bank is a FRB, call them up and ask!
This isn't a secret cabal of international bankers, like people try to make you think. It's a bank for the banks, ultimately controlled by Congress, to act as a lender of last resort and maintain the proper functioning of the markets.
The internet is a powerful tool, but one that gives a dangerously vocal voice to the misinformed and mentally insane.
Taxes paid is over 1Tr per year. Total Federal debt = 11tr. Weighted average coupon of federal debt is probably somewhere around 2%. 11tr *.02 = 220bn. We know that most of the debt isn't owned by the Federal Reserve, since China, Japan, Europe, and US citizens own the vast majority.
Federal debt owned by the Federal Reserve bears the same coupon as regular US debt. That money goes to the Federal Reserve and is then dividended out to the Federal Reserve banks, is used for overhead costs, and the remainder is given to the US government (about 80bn as of a few years ago).
The Federal Reserve district banks are owned by every member bank within the district. Thus, every bank, such as Capital One, Wells Fargo, US Bank, Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, or any other bank regulated by the Federal REserve (which is most banks) own shares in the Federal Reserve (which is part of the "Reserve" part). It is easy to find out whether a bank is a FRB, call them up and ask!
This isn't a secret cabal of international bankers, like people try to make you think. It's a bank for the banks, ultimately controlled by Congress, to act as a lender of last resort and maintain the proper functioning of the markets.
sactoking
Diamond Member
- Sep 24, 2007
- 7,525
- 2,727
- 136
In a nutshell:
(Help, I'm in a nutshell! How did I get in this nutshell?)
Banks are required to have a certain amount of money on hand at all times, in proportion to their liabilities. When they don't have enough reserves, the borrow from one another. The federal reserve sets an interest rate, called the overnight rate, for these very short-term liquidity loans among banks. Banks use this rate to trickle down their other rates. Thus, the federal reserve has an indirect, and often clumsy and ineffective, hand in setting market interest rates, which drive the economy.
Im not relying on youtube videos, hence why i am asking these questions. The movie had tons of crap in it that made no sense, but some of it is worth asking questions about. For example, the movie had something in it that said we would all have tracking chips in us by may 2008.....and its april 2009.....no chip in my arm lol.
Thanks for all your responses and keep pointing me in the direction of good information!
Thanks for all your responses and keep pointing me in the direction of good information!
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 173
- 106
The theory of taxation is quite complicated. Many types of taxes (war tax, property tax, sales tax etc) have always been paid without any argument about legality.
Because of concerns about Constitutional issues the 16th Amendment (in 1913 IIRC) was passed. The underlined portion was the concern (regarding apportionment, and it's too complicated to get into here).
Since the passage of the 16th there can be no legitinmate claim about the legality of income taxes.
The courts will longer even entertain any idea that income tax is illegal. Raise that in court you lose immediately and are subject to penalties for frivilous argument.
As far as where the money goes, there are numerous sites that have fairly detailed information on this. You can see the sources of government revenue (income tax, excise tax, SS tax etc) and where the money goes (entitlement programs like SS/medicaid?Medicare, military, earmarks etc).
Whether we're headed for one world government and/or who (elites) control what is subject to debate, but otherwise the stuff in that movie supporting their positions is BS
Fern
Okay so basically capitalist markets are so screwy they need all these crazy ass complicated systems in place to keep it from destroying itself?
btw thanks to everyone responding. my high school didnt teach us anything about govt or economics and my family is kind of dumb(or uninformed if you like) lol so i am trying to learn all of this on my own. thanks for not being condescending (most of you at least haha) in your responses!
No system is perfect. Why? Because all systems rely on people and people aren't perfect. They are prone to rash, irrational, and very violent swings in mood. Thus, sometimes there needs to be a referee in the system to stop the system from ripping itself apart. However, ultimately, it the Federal Reserve is nothing more than a tool and one that can be misused. Misguided ideas on how to handle different events can result in undesired or unintended consequences.
So, in the end, all you can do is hope that the Federal Reserve is benevolent and mostly correct. It will get things wrong, because, in the end, it still depends on humans, but it proves a "higher order" of humans, ones a little more detached from the greed/fear of the base system, so they can get a 30,000 foot view of things and make more rational decisions.
However, the FRB cannot do everything alone and must depend on other government agencies working in harmony with the FRB to keep things stable. It is a check and balance system.
Thom Hartmann is an excellent source on these sorts of issues. I'm not familiar with Ravi Batra.
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
- 16,240
- 7
- 76
It doesn't help to dismiss the paranoid when you have people like Chavez saying things like ""We are creating a new world, a balanced world. A new world order, a multipolar world,"
3chordcharlie
Diamond Member
- Mar 30, 2004
- 9,859
- 1
- 81
First they lend out imaginary money, then they sell all the gold but don't tell anyone, then they lend out more imaginary money to inflate away the value of your imaginary money, magically putting most of it in their pockets.
These simple steps make you a debt-slave, and someone should be around soon to put you in real chains, replacing the imaginary ones your arein right now, but can't see.
Or at least this is what I've been told.
It's not what they say you need to worry about. They're not Bond villains who lay out the plans for you. How many times have you seen the Bushes discuss The Carlyle Group?
That's one of the many ways the paranoid groups go wrong, latching on to irrelevancies - the symbols on the dollar bill, the words 'new world order', and so on.
People need to learn to recognize the more important things - the basics like 'where is the money, and what are the trends on where it is, and who has the power to steer it?'
You don't find the answers on the nightly news much, or even in newspapers much. Books like Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine" are far more useful for that.
See my thread on Frontline's documentary on BAE Systems' bribery related to their arrangement with England for a rare glimpse of just part of the picture of one incident (we are not shown the effects of all those weapons, for example, the tyranny of the Saudi governmnet), on some of the things going on, the little-reported corruption and such.
The current economic crisis was caused by theft in broad daylight, with the people's representatives acting as the cheerleader, demanding deregulation.
What Chavez says is not of much concern for you. He's a small president trying to provide some alternative to the massive powers that be - some well intentioned, some terrible.
While he's still in power, he follows a long string of those who are not, many assasinated - read John Perkins' books about 'Economic Hit Men'.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
When all else fails, use common sense.
For example: If it was true that there was no legal compulsion to pay taxes, don't you think a law would quickly be put on the books? This given that the country cannot operate without them. It would also be the only thing tax attorneys would ever have to argue.
For example: If it was true that there was no legal compulsion to pay taxes, don't you think a law would quickly be put on the books? This given that the country cannot operate without them. It would also be the only thing tax attorneys would ever have to argue.
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