The hipocracy of American democracy

[shangshang]

If you haven't lived under a rock, you would know that many parts of Mideast are going through revolutions, revolutions against despot leaders that the US are friend with or have befriend with. That's right, the US support the dictator Mubarak for the past 30 years, restored relation with Kadafi during W.Bush era. And as the people of Tunisia, Bahrain, Egypt, and Lybia revolted to demand democracy (isn't this what Americana is all about?), the US sits idly doing nothing much (I don't count "sanctions" as anything much). To the contrary, the US is still supporting the despot governments of Saudi, Kuwait, The Emerirates, etc. Seems to me that America is spending trillions of dollars (and sinking the economy) in the wrong places to nation-build a democracy. Are Iraq and Afghan democratic today? If any American say yes, then I'd like see you walk through these two countries waving the American flag and let's see if the "liberated" Iraqis or Afghans won't think twice about blowing your head off.

I think America is looking like a big fool right now. Not only does she spend money in the wrong countries, but the countries in which she does not try to nation-build are begin to bloom democracy. It's still early to tell how these revolutions will unfold or whether a change will be permanent, but it goes to show that America doesn't own the patented right to spread democracy huh?

Meanwhile back in America, Americans are slaves to their own politicians, banks, Wall Street, credit card debts, and the 2 great political parties and 1 clown party headed by a skirt. American democracy huh? Only a matter of time... I fear.

 

[shiner]

 

[IronWing]

and 1 clown party headed by a skirt.

Why are you afraid of women?

 

[Sinsear]

Dear OP: DIAF

 

[irishScott]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EQ6eHeBrhM

 

[Craig234]

There's plenty of 'hypocrisy'. The US has indeed supported a lot of dictators simply for selfish beenefits that they'll screw their people for our benefit, while we sing songs about freedom and liberty and democracy for the people we're helping to keep under those dictatorships, the American people far more concerned with the benefits we get than with the oppression of the people there. Our support for the revolution is probably based more on it being in our interests than the good of the people.

But the US has also done a lot for those things - liberty, freedom, etc. It's done more for them than most.

For example, the norm was for European countries to have foreign colonies; the US was helpful as of JFK with turning against that practice.

The US was a long-time supporter of regimes like South Africa or Marcos in the Philippennes, but played a large role eventually in helping to change those situations.

When you refer to our crazy third party headed by 'a skirt', I'm highly critical of Sarah Palin, but are you attacking her for being a woman? That's not her flaw.

Before seeing your post this morning, I was wondering, for all the positives about democracy being pursued in Egypt - how are gays doing?

Do all these freedom loving people still want to deny rights to gays? How badly, imprison them? Can they be schoolteachers?

The US has our own bigotry - while we have Barney Frank in Congress, a gay person would face a major problem being elected President, and only 5 states let gays marry.

But this has been a much bigger problem it seems in the middle east, how's that going?

Afghanistan and Iraq - there's plenty to criticize about US policy, but do you want to defend the pre-American situations, the Taliban and Saddam Hussein?

Do you not think that many in Afghanistan appreciate the US holding back the Taliban where it has?

As for America not owning the patent to spread democracy - thank goodness we don't. As you seem to know, that's not how democracy works - it's better spread by example.

You're right, America has plenty of corruption institutionalized in our democracy, and we're nowhere near doing what Egypt did to get rid of it.

But why don't you act like a better supporter of democracy yourself in appraching with a more friendly tone than the sneering and animosity, to support improving things?

Finally, what would you have the US do? You just made the point about how the US has used force that has been problematic, and you call for it to be done again. Rememeber, there is a UN charter about one nation using force in another for a good reason; today's 'benevelont' invasion of Libya is tomorrow's pretense for invading a country.

It appears Qadafi is on his way out, unfortunately after violence against the citizens. I'd like to see more done too, but the US just rushing in in an inavasion has problems, too.

Isn't the demand for the US to invade Libya against a dictator to give freedom to the people a lot more similar to the argument for invading Saddam than you want to admit?

I understand a lot of resentment from people in the Middle East for a lot of wrongs the US has done, but I'd suggest celebrating democracy more than just sniping attacks.

You say the US is doing 'nothing much' as the dictators fall, but that's a lot better than using force to prop them up. You say you want other regimes not to be propped up by the US also - wouldn't the US 'not doing anything' to prop them up, be an improvement? The US has helped pressure these dictators to leave in the face of the courageous protestors - that's helpful, even if it's not invading or sending arms to protestors or whatever you are asking for.

There are problems; if the Egyptian military had backed Mubarak, as you might expect from an institution under the control of a dictator, things might have worked out very differently, as they have in the past with revolutions - things like the democratic uprising in Czechosolakia in 1968, or the Chinese in Tianemman square. It's not always practical - can the people of Saudi Arabia just protest the regime and overthrow it? Doesn't seem too practical, and the US support for it isn't just likely to go away quickly.

But we'd do better to ally for change than to just say "ha ha, you have a problem with corporatism". Many in the US are cheering the democracy in Egypt, and not enough but many recognize the issue in how the US has provided so much help to prop up the dictator we're now saying we're glad is overthrown.

You make a valid point, but it doesn't seem very constructive in how you say it.

 

[Anarchist420]

Our problem is that we have too much democracy. When you have too much democracy, you get a plutocracy.

 

[Schadenfroh]

The international community wants America to intervene on behalf of the Libyan protesters when we caught hell from them for toppling Saddam (who slaughtered far more of his own people with poison gas and other tools when they revolted than Gaddafi and his mercs)? Hahahaha

Screw that crap, not worth it to be the world's police. Let The U.N. deal with it with a strongly worded letter.

BTW, Gaddafi is not America's friend, we even tried to assassinate him a while back. Normalization of diplomacy / trade does not equal friendship.

America could have helped keep one of Mubarak's puppets or pals in power if we wished, we are on very good terms with the Egyptian army and have a significant amount of influence over their decisions (we write them their paycheck every month).

When JOS comes back, he can tell you all about Afghanistan. I am sure in some areas that ANY foreigner unescorted will likely be attacked or kidnapped.

 

[EagleKeeper]

20/20 hindsight is great.

Where else would you like to live?

 

[Steeplerot]

Our problem is that we have too much democracy. When you have too much democracy, you get a plutocracy.

"Well, the trouble with our libertaran friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so. -Raygun

 

[sMiLeYz]

Our problem is that we have too much democracy. When you have too much democracy, you get a plutocracy.

jesus christ, please do not have children

 

[wuliheron]

Imagine that, hypocrisy in politics making the US look foolish to a bunch of third world wannabes! Oh the shame of it all! We'll send a fruit basket with an apology right away.

 

[Infohawk]

Imagine that, hypocrisy in politics making the US look foolish to a bunch of third world wannabes! Oh the shame of it all! We'll send a fruit basket with an apology right away.

Yup, I've been amused by the unjustified pride these people have been showing lately. A) They haven't really proved they've accomplished anything yet. I think they can do it, but they have yet to actually implement a stable democracy. B) Look how long it took them! It's like someone getting their GED at 50 years old. It's a good thing and better late then never but it's probably not a situation where you want to brag and gloat.

 

[sMiLeYz]

I think America is looking like a big fool right now. Not only does she spend money in the wrong countries, but the countries in which she does not try to nation-build are begin to bloom democracy. It's still early to tell how these revolutions will unfold or whether a change will be permanent, but it goes to show that America doesn't own the patented right to spread democracy huh?

Meanwhile back in America, Americans are slaves to their own politicians, banks, Wall Street, credit card debts, and the 2 great political parties and 1 clown party headed by a skirt. American democracy huh? Only a matter of time... I fear.

Our last president was an asshole, but none of this shit going on in the middle east is our goddamn business.

We support stability in the middle east region, not every country can handle democracy. We'll see how things turn out.

 

[LumbergTech]

Yup, I've been amused by the unjustified pride these people have been showing lately. A) They haven't really proved they've accomplished anything yet. I think they can do it, but they have yet to actually implement a stable democracy. B) Look how long it took them! It's like someone getting their GED at 50 years old. It's a good thing and better late then never but it's probably not a situation where you want to brag and gloat.

hmm....

how long did it take us to break off and form our own country?

 

[Infohawk]

hmm....

how long did it take us to break off and form our own country?

The US was one of the first countries in the world to implement democracy on a national scale along with France and later the UK and other western countries. Yes we could say it took billions of years for Americans to form their own country since the beginning of the universe but that would be irrelevant.

 

[hal2kilo]

America right or wrong! Damn communists.

 

[bamacre]

"Well, the trouble with our libertaran friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so. -Raygun

...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2146062

 

[wuliheron]

Yup, I've been amused by the unjustified pride these people have been showing lately. A) They haven't really proved they've accomplished anything yet. I think they can do it, but they have yet to actually implement a stable democracy. B) Look how long it took them! It's like someone getting their GED at 50 years old. It's a good thing and better late then never but it's probably not a situation where you want to brag and gloat.

If I had to guess its a cultural thing related to fundamentalism. In general fundamentalists of all stripes seem to love making a lot of noise and pointing fingers. The squeaky wheel does often get the grease, but sometimes its just a little lard that quickly starts to smell bad when what you really need is a new axle.