The Haiti Thing

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Why are they boohooing over a wannabee Dictator?

Haiti's interim PM confirms request for US troops to country

Haiti’s interim government has asked the U.S. to deploy troops to protect key infrastructure as it tries to stabilize the country and prepare the way for elections in the aftermath of the assassination of President Jovenel Moïse.

apnews.com

And why is the US sending FBI and troops?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I sort of agree here, although FBI should be sent provided they are wanted. There appears to be at minimum one American involved in the assassination. Who knows what else could be going on.

 

[pcgeek11]

We have no reason or need to send our Military or FBI into Haiti. We need to quit the international police role.

 

[woolfe9998]

Uh, the article specifically says we're not sending troops. Just some FBI and DOH officials.

 

[cytg111]

We have no reason or need to send our Military or FBI into Haiti. We need to quit the international police role.

Then you should have stopped selling arms and bombs and militech to the place decades ago. Sure I get the “let them figure it out them selves” theory, but its kind of hard for “them” to take the natural evolutionary path to liberty and justice for all when you have cocked up that specific recipe with high grade explosives for decades and decades. Many other regions comes to mind.
If you want Democracy to win out in the end its my firm belief you have to get in there. FBI and EMT style support for the struggling fragile democratic ecosystem sounds like what the doctor ordered.

Btw anyone have a guess as to who is behind it? Drug business?

 

[pcgeek11]

Uh, the article specifically says we're not sending troops. Just some FBI and DOH officials.

My comment was in response to the request from Haiti as stated in the article also:

"Haiti’s interim government said Friday that it asked the U.S. to deploy troops to protect key infrastructure as it tries to stabilize the country and prepare the way for elections in the aftermath of the assassination of President Jovenel Moïse. "

They need to protect their key infrastructure with their military

My opinion is we shouldn't send anyone. FBI, DHS, DOH, CIA, R2D2, C3PO...

Why would we send DOH ( Department of Health ) People?

A little outside of their mission isn't it?

 

[pcgeek11]

Then you should have stopped selling arms and bombs and militech to the place decades ago. Sure I get the “let them figure it out them selves” theory, but its kind of hard for “them” to take the natural evolutionary path to liberty and justice for all when you have cocked up that specific recipe with high grade explosives for decades and decades. Many other regions comes to mind.
If you want Democracy to win out in the end its my firm belief you have to get in there. FBI and EMT style support for the struggling fragile democratic ecosystem sounds like what the doctor ordered.

Oh stop pointing fingers.

So you are all for Nation Building. That hasn't worked out so well so far. It is past time to stop the BS and stop treating these people like they are helpless. They can work this out themselves.

 

[pmv]

My comment was in response to the request from Haiti as stated in the article also:

"Haiti’s interim government said Friday that it asked the U.S. to deploy troops to protect key infrastructure as it tries to stabilize the country and prepare the way for elections in the aftermath of the assassination of President Jovenel Moïse. "

They need to protect their key infrastructure with their military

My opinion is we shouldn't send anyone. FBI, DHS, DOH, CIA, R2D2, C3PO...

Why would we send DOH ( Department of Health ) People?

A little outside of their mission isn't it?

Bit late to turn against interference now. You occupied the country for 20 years at one point.

And the US has meddled there a lot more recently.

Hard to unravel it all because the Clintons were so central to it, so it gets all mixed-up with Trumpist Clinton-bashing (Chris Hitchens was a fascinating example of how scarily easy it is to segue from critiquing those two from the left, to doing so from the right - both because US liberals have always been particularly awful on foreign-policy, and because the Clintons are such a slippery pair)

 

[pcgeek11]

Bit late to turn against interference now. You occupied the country for 20 years at one point.

And the US has meddled there a lot more recently.

Hard to unravel it all because the Clintons were so central to it, so it gets all mixed-up with Trumpist Clinton-bashing (Chris Hitchens was a fascinating example of how scarily easy it is to segue from critiquing those two from the left, to doing so from the right - both because US liberals have always been particularly awful on foreign-policy, and because the Clintons are such a slippery pair)

Nope. It's never to late. We need to stop thinking we can control other countries. Their fate is in their hands just as it should be.

Yes, from 1915 until 1934. It was a mistake then and it still is.

Following the assassination of the Haitian President in July of 1915, President Woodrow Wilson sent the United States Marines into Haiti to restore order and maintain political and economic stability in the Caribbean. This occupation continued until 1934.

In 1929, a series of strikes and uprisings led the United States to begin withdrawal from Haiti. In 1930, U.S. officials began training Haitian officials to take control of the government. In 1934, the United States, in concert with President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s Good Neighbor Policy, officially withdrew from Haiti while retaining economic connections.

 

[cytg111]

Oh stop pointing fingers.

So you are all for Nation Building. That hasn't worked out so well so far. It is past time to stop the BS and stop treating these people like they are helpless. They can work this out themselves.

Well, you are about to lose your own shit, so maybe you are right, the US as a nation is not the right role model for countries that pursue liberty equal justice for all and all that. You being a Trump guy being the embodiment of that statement. Good job on losing it all?

 

[allisolm]

And why is the US sending FBI and troops?

From your own source and as woolfe9998 mentioned:

"Following Haiti’s request for U.S. troops, a senior administration official reiterated Psaki’s earlier comments that the administration is sending officials to assess how it can be most helpful, but added there are no plans to provide military assistance at this time."
(Bold is mine.)

That could change in the future, but getting lathered up about it now seems premature.

 

[compcons]

When poor countries are left to "sort it out", I think dictatorships win out every time. Just too much disparity in power. Also, we clearly have seen how easily swayed stupid people are (1930s Germany and US 2016-2021) by populist rhetoric. That rhetoric is a tool employed by authoritarians to get massive (and the dumbest) parts of a population to get on board with their plans.

I am not saying Haiti needs to be a democracy, but we know that works our better than dictatorships.

 

[Leeea]

Why are they boohooing over a wannabee Dictator?

Haiti's interim PM confirms request for US troops to country

Haiti’s interim government has asked the U.S. to deploy troops to protect key infrastructure as it tries to stabilize the country and prepare the way for elections in the aftermath of the assassination of President Jovenel Moïse.

apnews.com

And why is the US sending FBI and troops?

Last I heard we were not sending Troops.

But we were sending the FBI.

So there is this immigration crisis. Caused by instability in countries like Haiti. Instead of incarcerating all these immigrates, perhaps making countries like Haiti safer places to live would result in less immigrants?

After all, it was the US that made these countries into the shitholes they are. It only seems fair we continue the abusive relationship and try to fix our mess a bit.

We have no reason or need to send our Military or FBI into Haiti. We need to quit the international police role.

We broke it*. The disaster is piling up on our southern border. Maybe we should do something to fix what we broke, and at the same time reduce the scale of the disaster on our southern border?

*lets see here, invading in 1915 and offing the government at the time. Looting the Haitian national bank in 1915 and keeping the money for ourselves. Occupying the place as a puppet state until 1934 to insure US corporations could extract maximum wealth. It is called a Banana republic for a reason. Forcing the Haitian government to take on massive dept then using that against Haiti to continuedly leverage unfair and exploitative concessions.

oh, and did I forget to mention we also forced Haiti to implement segregation and racist policies?


Murdering and abusing our neighbors is the American way. The fruits of our labor is showing up on our borders. Maybe we should find another way?

My comment was in response to the request from Haiti as stated in the article also:

"Haiti’s interim government said Friday that it asked the U.S. to deploy troops to protect key infrastructure as it tries to stabilize the country and prepare the way for elections in the aftermath of the assassination of President Jovenel Moïse. "

They need to protect their key infrastructure with their military

My opinion is we shouldn't send anyone. FBI, DHS, DOH, CIA, R2D2, C3PO...

Why would we send DOH ( Department of Health ) People?

A little outside of their mission isn't it?

Ignoring our neighbors suffering that is the easy thing to do. But it is also much cheaper and more humane to deal with the problem in Haiti then deal with the health crisis as it crosses our southern border.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I don't really get the Colombian Connection unless the drug lords were looking to own their own country?

 

[hal2kilo]

I don't really get the Colombian Connection unless the drug lords were looking to own their own country?

More like leftovers from either drug cartels, or the other side. Not enough bad shit in the world to keep them employed. I get a hint that there are plenty of unemployed mercs of all strips floating around. Eric Princes outfit came immediately to my mind.

 

[pcgeek11]

Last I heard we were not sending Troops.

But we were sending the FBI.

So there is this immigration crisis. Caused by instability in countries like Haiti. Instead of incarcerating all these immigrates, perhaps making countries like Haiti safer places to live would result in less immigrants?

After all, it was the US that made these countries into the shitholes they are. It only seems fair we continue the abusive relationship and try to fix our mess a bit.


We broke it*. The disaster is piling up on our southern border. Maybe we should do something to fix what we broke, and at the same time reduce the scale of the disaster on our southern border?

*lets see here, invading in 1915 and offing the government at the time. Looting the Haitian national bank in 1915 and keeping the money for ourselves. Occupying the place as a puppet state until 1934 to insure US corporations could extract maximum wealth. It is called a Banana republic for a reason. Forcing the Haitian government to take on massive dept then using that against Haiti to continuedly leverage unfair and exploitative concessions.

oh, and did I forget to mention we also forced Haiti to implement segregation and racist policies?

Murdering and abusing our neighbors is the American way. The fruits of our labor is showing up on our borders. Maybe we should find another way?

Ignoring our neighbors suffering that is the easy thing to do. But it is also much cheaper and more humane to deal with the problem in Haiti then deal with the health crisis as it crosses our southern border.

Yes, Every bad thing that has ever happened in Haiti is our fault.... /s

 

[ch33zw1z]

Yes, Every bad thing that has ever happened in Haiti is our fault.... /s

Nice strawman. Anything inaccurate in the post?

 

[cytg111]

Yes, Every bad thing that has ever happened in Haiti is our fault.... /s

Naw but its your fault. Really.

 

[Zorba]

Last I heard we were not sending Troops.

But we were sending the FBI.

So there is this immigration crisis. Caused by instability in countries like Haiti. Instead of incarcerating all these immigrates, perhaps making countries like Haiti safer places to live would result in less immigrants?

After all, it was the US that made these countries into the shitholes they are. It only seems fair we continue the abusive relationship and try to fix our mess a bit.


We broke it*. The disaster is piling up on our southern border. Maybe we should do something to fix what we broke, and at the same time reduce the scale of the disaster on our southern border?

*lets see here, invading in 1915 and offing the government at the time. Looting the Haitian national bank in 1915 and keeping the money for ourselves. Occupying the place as a puppet state until 1934 to insure US corporations could extract maximum wealth. It is called a Banana republic for a reason. Forcing the Haitian government to take on massive dept then using that against Haiti to continuedly leverage unfair and exploitative concessions.

oh, and did I forget to mention we also forced Haiti to implement segregation and racist policies?


Murdering and abusing our neighbors is the American way. The fruits of our labor is showing up on our borders. Maybe we should find another way?



Ignoring our neighbors suffering that is the easy thing to do. But it is also much cheaper and more humane to deal with the problem in Haiti then deal with the health crisis as it crosses our southern border.

I really don't know, but was Haiti a truly functional country prior to 1915?

 

[Pohemi]

Yes, Every bad thing that has ever happened in Haiti is our fault.... /s

You stated an opinion, which you are obviously entitled to.

An opposing opinion and counterpoint is given and fairly well-explained and/or rationalized.

In response, you immediately turn to facetiousness.

Your stated opinion obviously is not very solid or based on much besides rhetoric...as per usual.

This is exactly why you clowns get nothing from me but that which you deserve: derision and insults. Anything more is a waste of time and effort.

 

[sdifox]

I really don't know, but was Haiti a truly functional country prior to 1915?

Pretty sure robbing Hatian national bank clean does not improve their situation.

 

[HomerJS]

The US can't ignore this kind of thing in it's own hemisphere.

I don't have a problem helping Haiti investigate. More so considering at least one American seems to have been involved.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Seems to be a lot of what-about-ism going on in this thread.
I am all for sending the FBI simply because it appears Americans are involved. Other than this nothing else.
I see no reason to support a failed dictator, I see no reason to help a country that appears to have no plan and minimal ability to Govern.
I have no desire to send troops somewhere without a clear and concise plan as in we are he to do X then leave or we are here to prevent Y until Z date.
Finally I see no reason why troops would be needed in Haiti, maybe a Police force but that is not what the Military is for.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I really don't know, but was Haiti a truly functional country prior to 1915?

I really don't know, but was Haiti ever a truly functional country?

 

[Leeea]

I really don't know, but was Haiti a truly functional country prior to 1915?

From my perspective it never really had a chance.

It appears prior to 1915 the Germans, the French, and the US took turns kicking Haiti and looting* it.

*Minimal research on the subject makes it appear it was a cycle of predatory loans and concessions obtained through what is sometimes known as "gunboat diplomacy".

U.S. Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler said the following about his involvement in the banana wars: "I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."