The greatest freedom for everyone

[Dr. Zaus]

Communism------------------------------------ Fascism
\                                               /
 \                                             / 
  \                                           /
   \                                         /
    \                                       /
     \                                     /
      \                                   /
       \                                 /
        \                               /
         \                             /
    Fabian Socialism     Limited-Laze-Fair Capitalism
           \                         /
            \                       /
             \                     /
              \                   /
               \                 /
                \               /
                 \             /
     (democrat)Liberal Democracy(republican)
		   \	     /
		    \       /
	             \	   /
		      \   /
		       \ /
              Voluntaryist Communal system

So the horizontal axis is private vs. public control and the vertical axis is individual liberty.

Voluntaryist Communal or system using a resource based economy as espoused by the Zeitgeist Movement, is the most freedom we could have while still having the greatest benefit to all present and future generations.

History has shown that people on either side of the triangle look across the triangle for their enemies; at those above them on the triangle as their inferiors and at those ideas below them on the triangle as impossible dreams.

I say that if we teach that a better world isn't impossible and stop fighting to have the public OR private sector control us we can have a better world in just a few generations.

This movie, though fancifully, flawed, and out-right wrong on many occasions, does set the tone and basic thought pattern for what will happen when we finally reach a state of technological advancement that employment will be something only a small percentage of very creative people are capable of gaining.

TZM Moving Forward

It is worth your time even if you disagree with because it's such a powerful idea that it deserves honest and open-minded consideration.

 

[guyver01]

 

[wuliheron]

 

[Dr. Zaus]

I post crackpot nonsense that no one understands or that is simply dismissed every 3-6 months. I do this because I have crack pot friends IRL

Some examples:
eliminating minimum wage but protecting people's right to a create a monopoly, including the right to form unions

A progressive sales tax that involves sending everyone a check for a the tax a poor person would pay: every month.

The benefits of creating an English speaking north American union.

An end to all taxation by simply printing the money for the government and keeping inflation down with an increased reserve ratio and interest rates.

Two imitation threads, the first pro-Mexican, the second more anti-Mexican. Turns out it's racist to report facts that put Mexican immigration in a negative light, but not to make comments that imply heavily negative things about Anglo-American culture.

And a finding that almost half of ATPnN thinks Obama is the physiological clone of hitler.


I think that in comparison a thread espousing the views of the ZGM, a technocratic-utopia anarchist communist group, would seem much more reasonable.

 

[guyver01]

I post crackpot nonsense that no one understands or that is simply dismissed every 3-6 months. I do this because I have crack pot friends IRL

so... you're the neckbeard of p&n ?

 

[DominionSeraph]

Ah, so the greatest freedom for everyone...

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

IDK WTF is up with this thread but Zeitgeist:Addendum is certainly worth watching by everyone as it focuses on valid criticisms of our current economic system.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

IDK WTF is up with this thread but Zeitgeist:Addendum is certainly worth watching by everyone as it focuses on valid criticisms of our current economic system.

Yep. I started with the end and then linked to what I was talking about:
the zeitgeist movement.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Yep. I started with the end and then linked to what I was talking about:
the zeitgeist movement.

The problem with the first and third movies I think is that they will immediately turn some people off to the whole thing given their focuses. You have government and religious conspiracy in the first and a future Utopian society in the third. IMO the real meat is in the second movie that largely avoids these topics and focuses on prevalent and tangible flaws in our current economic system.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

The problem with the first and third movies I think is that they will immediately turn some people off to the whole thing given their focuses. You have government and religious conspiracy in the first and a future Utopian society in the third. IMO the real meat is in the second movie that largely avoids these topics and focuses on prevalent and tangible flaws in our current economic system.

Don't you think that the only solution to our curent problems is a systemic change in our social institutions?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Don't you think that the only solution to our curent problems is a systemic change in our social institutions?

My main concern is getting people to recognize and agree on our current problems first, then tackling the potential solution. Too many people are content with or vested in how things have gone up until now. I think if technology is allowed to advance beyond the control of those in power who would throttle and shape it to further that power, social and economic change will have to happen as a consequence. I think the internet is the most important step so far in that direction. Michio Kaku has some interesting thoughts along these lines about the future here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI6vANpHhOA

Edit: This is also a good lecture from Mich Kaku on the future:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=219YybX66MY&feature=related

And there was good TED talk that seems to have since been taken down by David Eagleman on how previous civilizations failed and how the internet can prevent some of those from happening again. Here's a summary article:
http://passive-observers.blogspot.com/2011/03/article-six-ways-internet-will-save.html

The internet is a big deal. The future of man kind big deal.

Edit 2: Maybe it wasn't a TED talk, I think this is the lecture:
http://fora.tv/2010/04/01/Six_Easy_Steps_to_Avert_the_Collapse_of_Civilization