The GOP needs to critique this Chart: Obama's ownage of Bush

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Legislated Tax Changes by Ronald Reagan as of 1988
Total cumulative tax cuts
-275.3​

Total cumulative tax increases
+132.7​

Source: Office of Management and Budget, Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal Year 1990 (Washington: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1989), p. 4-4.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/09/reagan-tax-increases/


That said, in 1980, the bottom tax rate was 14% up to only $2,100, after which higher rates applied. In 1988, the bottom tax rate was 15% up to $29,750, after which higher rates applied. It appears to me most poor people got a tax cut by Reagan. All numbers used were for married filers.

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
you criticize an attempt to save and/or create a "scant" 150,000 jobs, yet in the same breath, most of you peons froth at the mouth when Keystone is shot down, claiming that this "job creator!" (roughly 2,000 jobs on short-term contracts) is exaclty what this economy needs.

Are you being purposefully dense or are you naturally this way? The complaint is not about jobs being created (as you claim), but the expense of creating those jobs.

You can head back to the kids table now, the adults are having a conversation. Good boy.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Are you being purposefully dense or are you naturally this way? The complaint is not about jobs being created (as you claim), but the expense of creating those jobs.

You can head back to the kids table now, the adults are having a conversation. Good boy.

You're the one who introduced Elmo to the conversation as a desperate duh-version, or have you forgotten already?

Sactoking covers it better than I can here-

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=33674990&postcount=67

In reference to families below 133% of the poverty line income, he states

So, yes, they are subject to the mandate but there is probably not a plausible scenario where they cannot fulfill the mandate except by choice.

Which renders your statements wrt poor people & the ACA bunk, too...

You could troll Elmo back out, but it won't really change anything.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Why on Earth would Republicans want to critique that chart? The very best possible election scenario for Republicans would be Democrats and Obama trumpeting that the private sector is fine, what we need is more government. We literally could not select a better position for the Democrats.

Personally I hope the Democrats and Obama settle on exactly that message and construct many, many such charts, complete with long media stories on just how well the private sector is doing.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Why on Earth would Republicans want to critique that chart? The very best possible election scenario for Republicans would be Democrats and Obama trumpeting that the private sector is fine, what we need is more government. We literally could not select a better position for the Democrats.

Personally I hope the Democrats and Obama settle on exactly that message and construct many, many such charts, complete with long media stories on just how well the private sector is doing.

Dream On.

Business *is* doing great, it's just that there's no trickledown in trickledown economics, so the Romney/Ryan notion that tax cuts at the top will "create jobs" is bunk. The more they get, the more they keep and the less left over for the rest of us. The current problems with the economy are issues of distribution more than anything else, and what they propose will just make it worse, not better.

It's not like the private sector has been functioning as some sort of massive jobs engine at all, even with record profits & record cash reserves. They & the ownership class currently enjoy the lowest federal tax rates of the post-WW2 era, so if low taxes create jobs, we'd have seen a lot more of them. They currently serve as a giant liquidity trap, hoovering liquidity out of the system as fast as it can be created.

So if business won't step up and honor the social contract, govt has to do it, or just take the Repub motto of "I got mine-Screw you" more seriously, reveal the true intentions of the party of the rich, for the rich & by the rich for what they are.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
You're the one who introduced Elmo to the conversation as a desperate duh-version, or have you forgotten already?

Of course, I needed to use a level of education you could comprehend. Sesame Street seemed pretty good. The show is very educational and not much knowledge or information is required to learn from it.

Is it still too difficult for you? I can seek out something less intellectually challenging, maybe the Teletubbies?
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
Yeah, those claims are hilarious.

Both Clinton and Reagan introduced tax hikes more than double that of ACA, when adjusted for inflation.
Do you find tax increases for the poor and lower middle class to be hilarious also? One more broken promise by Obama.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Dream On.

Business *is* doing great, it's just that there's no trickledown in trickledown economics, so the Romney/Ryan notion that tax cuts at the top will "create jobs" is bunk. The more they get, the more they keep and the less left over for the rest of us. The current problems with the economy are issues of distribution more than anything else, and what they propose will just make it worse, not better.

It's not like the private sector has been functioning as some sort of massive jobs engine at all, even with record profits & record cash reserves. They & the ownership class currently enjoy the lowest federal tax rates of the post-WW2 era, so if low taxes create jobs, we'd have seen a lot more of them. They currently serve as a giant liquidity trap, hoovering liquidity out of the system as fast as it can be created.

So if business won't step up and honor the social contract, govt has to do it, or just take the Repub motto of "I got mine-Screw you" more seriously, reveal the true intentions of the party of the rich, for the rich & by the rich for what they are.
Man, can't wait 'til you guys start sharing your proggie wisdom with the voters via mass media advertising, explaining how all those empty storefronts actually used to be government entities and how all the unemployed are actually former government workers victimized by evil austerity. Oughta be a big market in tee shirts saying "Barack lost 49 states and all I got was this informative chart." And here I didn't think it was possible for the Messiah to lose this election.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
Dream On.

Business *is* doing great, it's just that there's no trickledown in trickledown economics, so the Romney/Ryan notion that tax cuts at the top will "create jobs" is bunk. The more they get, the more they keep and the less left over for the rest of us. The current problems with the economy are issues of distribution more than anything else, and what they propose will just make it worse, not better.

It's not like the private sector has been functioning as some sort of massive jobs engine at all, even with record profits & record cash reserves. They & the ownership class currently enjoy the lowest federal tax rates of the post-WW2 era, so if low taxes create jobs, we'd have seen a lot more of them. They currently serve as a giant liquidity trap, hoovering liquidity out of the system as fast as it can be created.

So if business won't step up and honor the social contract, govt has to do it, or just take the Repub motto of "I got mine-Screw you" more seriously, reveal the true intentions of the party of the rich, for the rich & by the rich for what they are.

I sometimes wonder if you actually work in the real world. I do. Business is NOT doing great. Some sectors are doing Ok, others suck horribly. I'm in one that is getting by but it hasn't been overly comfortable.

The government never upholds the social contract either. I don't know why you believe it does. You should be just as equally mad at them as at anyone else since they make plenty of money and get this - it is ALL made from tax dollars taken from the citizens. Where's you outrage against them? The vast majority of Washington has been riding the motto of "I got mine, screw you" only with the additional phrase of "and I want more" - and people like yourself keep falling in line with them. The government is wanting more, taking more, and you keep giving it more, believing their lies. Wake up.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I sometimes wonder if you actually work in the real world. I do. Business is NOT doing great. Some sectors are doing Ok, others suck horribly. I'm in one that is getting by but it hasn't been overly comfortable.

The government never upholds the social contract either. I don't know why you believe it does. You should be just as equally mad at them as at anyone else since they make plenty of money and get this - it is ALL made from tax dollars taken from the citizens. Where's you outrage against them? The vast majority of Washington has been riding the motto of "I got mine, screw you" only with the additional phrase of "and I want more" - and people like yourself keep falling in line with them. The government is wanting more, taking more, and you keep giving it more, believing their lies. Wake up.
Hell, I wonder if he lives in the real world.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
I sometimes wonder if you actually work in the real world. I do. Business is NOT doing great. Some sectors are doing Ok, others suck horribly. I'm in one that is getting by but it hasn't been overly comfortable... <snip>

Yup, I live in the Southern part of the US. While we don't have the property bubble problem as other states and also have the oil and nature gas as cushion for the last few years, thing are still tough here. Sale taxes are down because nature gas companies such as Chesapeak is cutting back on drill platforms due to 50% lower price for nature gas ==> less employees/less hotel/less eat out/ less service from oil and gas related companies ==> chain reaction to other businesses and local government entities.

DeSoto (Louisiana) sales tax is down $30.6 million = http://www.shreveporttimes.com/arti...DATED-DeSoto-sales-tax-collections-down-30-6M

DeSoto Parish sales and use tax collections are down $30.6 million from a year ago, raking in almost $90 million in 2011-12 vs. the all-time high of $120 million in 2010-11, according to the annual report released late last week.
The decline is directly related to the downturn in oil and natural gas activity, DeSoto Sales and Use Tax Commission Administrator Chris Robinette said. &#8220;It went down; straight down. No warning,&#8221; Robinette said of the drastic slide that started about three months ago.

Seven rigs are operating in the parish. A year ago, the number was 48. Two years ago: 60-plus.

Cities in East Texas = http://www.news-journal.com/busines...cle_ff56b879-523a-50bd-a088-de2fab0e335c.html

Across East Texas most cities showed declines in monthly sales tax revenues. The state reported that 13 of 23 area cities posted dips in sales tax receipts compared with results a year ago.

Cities with double digit declines were Marshall, down 10.54 percent; Big Sandy, down 13.7 percent; Carthage, down 13.98 percent; Hawkins, down 14.4 percent; and Linden, down 10 percent.

Private sector is doing fine - Obama 2012 :D
 
Last edited:

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
1
0
Hell, I wonder if he lives in the real world.

corporate-profits-just-hit-another-all-time-high.jpg
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Man, can't wait 'til you guys start sharing your proggie wisdom with the voters via mass media advertising, explaining how all those empty storefronts actually used to be government entities and how all the unemployed are actually former government workers victimized by evil austerity. Oughta be a big market in tee shirts saying "Barack lost 49 states and all I got was this informative chart." And here I didn't think it was possible for the Messiah to lose this election.

Well, govt workers, now unemployed, formed part of their customer base, just like everybody else. And, as the charts illustrate, govt employment is still falling, even as the private sector improves, if only slightly. That's a drag on total employment & total demand, isn't it? Those storefronts are empty because there's a lack of demand, and a lack of credit in the face of that. Even going concerns that relied on credit have gone under.

You don't think that the credit bubble extended just to housing, did you? Hardly. Small business debt was sliced, diced, blended & folded in with mortgage debt in a variety of securitizations. Circa 2004- 2005, they'd lend any silly swinging dick with half a plan oodles of money, because they could securitize anything.

We all do better when we all do better, not just when those at the top do better, not just when corporate America sits on record cash reserves even after stock buybacks, not when enormous amounts of liquidity are set aside doing no work at all.

So, uhh, vote Republican, because the only trickledown you'll get is when they piss on your head while your neck is under their boot.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
So, uhh, vote Republican, because the only trickledown you'll get is when they piss on your head while your neck is under their boot.

As opposed to voting for the guy who is currently running the country who has fostered a climate which causes corporate America to sit on record cash reserves even after stock buybacks, and have enormous amounts of liquidity set aside doing no work at all?

Why would we want to continue with more of the same when you claim what is currently happening is bad? Makes no sense at all.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136

But facts don't matter to Righties- They believe what they want to believe because it feels good to do so, Because It's All Obama's Fault- Everything!

If they didn't, they'd have to look at themselves, exercise some critical thinking skills in the process, admit that maybe they've believed in lies, that they've been chumped by those they trust and admire the most, people they basically worship.

Can't have that, so they'll resort to whatever it takes to keep on believing- that Iraqi WMD's posed a grave threat, that teh ebil Libruhls caused the housing bubble, that Obama wasn't born in this country, that trickledown really works, that it's poor people dragging us down instead of rich people pushing us down, so forth & so on...
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
As opposed to voting for the guy who is currently running the country who has fostered a climate which causes corporate America to sit on record cash reserves even after stock buybacks, and have enormous amounts of liquidity set aside doing no work at all?

Why would we want to continue with more of the same when you claim what is currently happening is bad? Makes no sense at all.

Total Bullshit. If the Obama Admin were somehow damaging business interests, they wouldn't be showing record profits, engaging in stock buybacks, paying ever increasing executive compensation. They'd be hurting like a lot of the rest of America, but they aren't, of course.

What's happening today is the result of lack of demand & lack of legislative action to create demand, and we all know why that's happening- Repub control of the HOR & filibuster power in the Senate. Their stated number 1 goal has been to make Obama a one term president, no matter what he does, and they obviously don't care about what happens to the little people in their efforts to stuff the economy to make it happen.

The True Bush Constituency is doing fine through it all- never better, really, and that's all that matters to the party of the rich, for the rich, & by the rich, with delusional hangers-on, of course.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Total Bullshit. If the Obama Admin were somehow damaging business interests, they wouldn't be showing record profits, engaging in stock buybacks, paying ever increasing executive compensation. They'd be hurting like a lot of the rest of America, but they aren't, of course.

What's happening today is the result of lack of demand & lack of legislative action to create demand, and we all know why that's happening- Repub control of the HOR & filibuster power in the Senate. Their stated number 1 goal has been to make Obama a one term president, no matter what he does, and they obviously don't care about what happens to the little people in their efforts to stuff the economy to make it happen.

The True Bush Constituency is doing fine through it all- never better, really, and that's all that matters to the party of the rich, for the rich, & by the rich, with delusional hangers-on, of course.


You want your cake and you want to eat it too. You say the current climate is awesome and business are doing great all due to Obama while saying businesses refuse to spend their money in the current climate and this is not Obama's fault. You cannot blame Bush for it...that is being intellectually dishonest.

If you want to give Obama accolades for the awesome business climate which gives great profits you also have to give him criticism for that same business climate being such that business are afraid to part with their money.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
The private sector is not limited to stockholders. But please do continue to use this argument throughout the election. America is really, really ready to get behind your policy of growing government.

America is really, really ready to follow any policy that'll actually create jobs, not promises of jobs if we'll just let the rich keep even more of their incomes, and Cut, cut, Cut taxes & spending to the point it'll truly paralyze the economy. They don't care who hires 'em, and it's obvious tht the private sector isn't living up to their billing as the great job creators, even as those at the top enjoy the lowest tax rates of the post-WW2 period, and over the last decade the greatest share of national income since the 1920's.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
You want your cake and you want to eat it too. You say the current climate is awesome and business are doing great all due to Obama while saying businesses refuse to spend their money in the current climate and this is not Obama's fault. You cannot blame Bush for it...that is being intellectually dishonest.

If you want to give Obama accolades for the awesome business climate which gives great profits you also have to give him criticism for that same business climate being such that business are afraid to part with their money.

As if Obama were Dictator, as if Repubs haven't done their best to stuff every effort to create jobs. The OP's chart explains why business isn't hiring, and Repubs intend to keep it that way, intensify it if they can.

Cut, cut, cut! our way to more jobs!