Except when you look at it, they strip out $100 billion of spending in what they don't like, and throw in $100 billion of corporate tax cuts, which the CBO (among others) says don't really do much in terms of economic stimulus. That's MUCH better.
Except when you look at it, they strip out $100 billion of spending in what they don't like, and throw in $100 billion of corporate tax cuts, which the CBO (among others) says don't really do much in terms of economic stimulus. That's MUCH better.
Huh.
"[T]he draft is more narrow than the Democrats' plan because it eliminates spending on government programs that Republicans and some Democrats say shouldn't be in the bill because they don't create jobs."
Yeh, let's cut corporate taxes, so they can declare bigger profits and bonuses, so that the recipients can buy more T-bills, since they're skeered of investing in anything else...
Yeh, that'll create a lot of jobs, right? Right?
Or maybe they'll invest some of the difference in offshoring more jobs faster, creating bigger profits and bonuses, giving a cut of the T-bill buying to the Chinese... they deserve it, right? I mean, they've been good partners in the biggest looting spree in the history of the world, right? Jobs in China or jobs in the US- what's the difference? I mean, it's all good, if it's good for the global economy...
Yeh, that'll create a lot of jobs, right? Right?
Or maybe they'll invest some of the difference in offshoring more jobs faster, creating bigger profits and bonuses, giving a cut of the T-bill buying to the Chinese... they deserve it, right? I mean, they've been good partners in the biggest looting spree in the history of the world, right? Jobs in China or jobs in the US- what's the difference? I mean, it's all good, if it's good for the global economy...
Starbuck1975
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2005
- 14,698
- 1,909
- 126
I see no reason why Republicans shouldn't question non-job creating pork, like these little gems in the Democrats plan:
That, and the Republicans moved quick to offer an alternate plan...as the minority party, and the once champions of fiscal conservatism, the Republicans are serving a necessary and appropriate role to keep Congress in check.
The Democrats are approaching this stimulus package like a shopping spree to push ever repressed agenda item of the last 20 years.
Obama needs to start showing some leadership, or Congress is going to run his agenda way off course.
That, and the Republicans moved quick to offer an alternate plan...as the minority party, and the once champions of fiscal conservatism, the Republicans are serving a necessary and appropriate role to keep Congress in check.
The Democrats are approaching this stimulus package like a shopping spree to push ever repressed agenda item of the last 20 years.
Obama needs to start showing some leadership, or Congress is going to run his agenda way off course.
The movie industry doesn't have jobs?
Like it or not, the TV industry has become an important part of our economy, stimulating the demand for purchasing goods. Keeping it reaching people in a 'corporate investment'.
I've seen too many government office that are just crap environments, and don't know the situation here - are people without desks and chairs - but tentatively, I'll agree with you.
This is the sort of economizing that makes some sense - but technically, buying all that hurniture will create furniture industry jobs, too.
Sounds good - part of the 'green spending', driving these vehicle (no pun intended) in the marketplace, helping the auto industry better than a 'bailout'.
A very important activity by the government they have to fund. They can't do it later. Besides the historical importance, the census fuels countless policy and business policies.
No, you are parroting a Republican false talking point where their real agenda is to keep Democrats from helping the nation so as to better their election chances, IMO.
They remember how the Democrats creating solutions like Social Security (over their objections, wanting to leae elder poverty in place) help Democrats politicall long after.
They understand that they can't win by just trying to copy the democrats and help the American people, and they can't win by opposing good programs, so they try to block any.
Al you are concerned about is Obama's political well being. How sweet.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
He was involved but instead of him getting into a protracted debate with his own party members of Congress he wisely let the loyal opposition do it for him so not to create any friction between him and those whom he needs to be loyal to him. Seems very smart to me.
What other $100 billion? The version it is being compared to was $819 billion, this one is $713.
Starbuck1975
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2005
- 14,698
- 1,909
- 126
It is a pebble hitting a roaring river...this is nothing more than a carrot thrown by the Democrats back to their big Hollywood donors.
I am not going to get into a debate on the conversion, but the cost incurred by broadcasters to sustain analog far outweights any benefit...and again, this does not create jobs.
Again, pebble against a roaring river.
Again, not job creation...it may temporarily move inventory, but will not result in long term economic growth or job creation in the auto industry.
Does it create jobs.
A broke and unsustainable system that desperately needs reform, but no politician will touch with 10 ft stick.
The Republicans drafted a counter plan...McCain is offering a counter plan...this is the nature of politics, and a necessary step in the process...they are blocking the pork laden Democrat plan, but are for reaching a bi-partisan agreement on an alternative....isn't this what Obama promised...a spirit of bipartisanship...that includes bringing Republicans to the table.
Interesting...most of these talking points are readily found through media outlets like the Wall Street Journal, LA Times and NY Times...hardly GOP mouthpieces...sucks to be under the microscope of media scrutiny when you are the majority party.
I was hopeful for change...Pelosi and Congress are Obama's greatest obstacle right now, not the Republicans.
From CNN (via the GOP) - list of "waste"
? $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.
? A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.
? $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.
? $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).
? $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.
? $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.
? $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.
? $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.
? $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.
? $125 million for the Washington sewer system.
? $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.
? $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.
? $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."
? $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.
? $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
? $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.
? $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.
? $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.
? $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.
? $500 million for state and local fire stations.
? $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.
? $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.
? $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.
? $412 million for CDC buildings and property.
? $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.
? $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.
? $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.
? $850 million for Amtrak.
? $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.
? $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.
? $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.
? $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.
? $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.
? A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.
? $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.
? $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).
? $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.
? $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.
? $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.
? $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.
? $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.
? $125 million for the Washington sewer system.
? $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.
? $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.
? $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."
? $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.
? $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
? $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.
? $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.
? $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.
? $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.
? $500 million for state and local fire stations.
? $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.
? $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.
? $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.
? $412 million for CDC buildings and property.
? $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.
? $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.
? $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.
? $850 million for Amtrak.
? $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.
? $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.
? $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.
? $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.
You said "they took out $100 billion, and added in $100 billion." That's a net difference of zero.
Oh yeah, I see what you mean. It looks like there was some other spending that was declared 'unrelated' by the Republicans.
Still though, corporate tax cuts are a poor way of stimulating the economy, just another tax giveaway to the rich.
Just because I know people are curious and also lazy I went ahead and summed all of those figures up. The grand total is 24.6 billion rounded off.
I believe the bill is estimated to be 900 billion right? So that means 2.7% of it is pork according to CNN's list.
Damn, I should have done that. That's what I meant when I said that all this was simply political posturing by the Republicans. It's the same deal as the yearly complaints about pork in the federal budget, which comprises a bit over one half of one percent of federal expenditures. (hell, isn't that half of what McCain ran on?)
Many people forget that this bill was created with no GOP input and behind closed doors. Then the Dems try to ram-rod it through the system.
Good for the GOP for standing up. This is stupid bullshit. If the Dems were at all genuine about their intentions, they would have brought both parties together during the drafting of the bill. After all, the GOP still represents some people in the country, they should have some say.
If you ask me, the Dems are shooting themselves in the feet and they are going to cost Obama a ton of political capital. I could really see this creating a HUGE rift in the party, one that could very well lead to a popular revolt similar to that seen in the 90's. If this fails, they will blame the GOP to save their hides, and guessing by the shrinking popularity of the bill - this is a terrible politcal choice. That or they will scapegoat Obama and pretty much relinquish his reign to a short and Carteresque history.
Good for the GOP for standing up. This is stupid bullshit. If the Dems were at all genuine about their intentions, they would have brought both parties together during the drafting of the bill. After all, the GOP still represents some people in the country, they should have some say.
If you ask me, the Dems are shooting themselves in the feet and they are going to cost Obama a ton of political capital. I could really see this creating a HUGE rift in the party, one that could very well lead to a popular revolt similar to that seen in the 90's. If this fails, they will blame the GOP to save their hides, and guessing by the shrinking popularity of the bill - this is a terrible politcal choice. That or they will scapegoat Obama and pretty much relinquish his reign to a short and Carteresque history.
1. The size isn't the issue. Every item in the bill has to be the size of a trillion dollars? Our economy is made up of many industries of varying size.
2. No, this is *you* unable to analyze the merit of the spending. You *assume* that because Hollywood donates to democrats, that's all it is. You can't say any more.
I am not going to get into a debate on the conversion, but the cost incurred by broadcasters to sustain analog far outweights any benefit...and again, this does not create jobs.[/quote]
Creating jobs may be the most important goal for how the money is spent, but it doesn't have to be the only one, if other spending can help the economy.
Again, pointless.
It fuels - again no pun intended - the development of the green technology.
In fact it does, yes. Though it's justified regardless.
The most effective single social program in the history of the nation, that changed the elderly poverty rate from 90% to 10% and has been a success for the 75 years since it was created, despite the predictions it can't and won't work from the radical right since the debate whether to pass it - and who will try to make sure it doesn't get fixed now, so that they can destroy a program they resent the public giving credit to the democrats for and uses money that could be going to the ultra wealthy, if the elderly just go back to poverty.
Putting up a ridiculous right-wing 'plan' is merely a way of disguising blocking the bill.
Links? Show me the LA Time and NY Times endorsing the Republican bill.
[/quote]
Wrong. Pelosi and congress here are the change from Bush. Republicans are not the change from Bush.
If you pay close attention, a lot of these can create jobs. This is a massive injection of funds in programs that have gone with hardly any funds for nearly a decade thanks to the Republican fillabuster proof system. It seems shocking to people because they hardly see everything that goes into funding the infrastructure of the nation.
I do agree that the 248 million to furniture are something where I would like to know where the funds go. Otherwise, everything else is catch up for the under-funding of the last decade.
Want to catch up funding to programs do it in another bill. The stimulus bill should be basically tax cuts and infrastructure spending that is it.
Tax cuts for who? Business and land owners??? The majority of Americans do not own a home. I'm a student and make below the poverty line. I hardly get any of the funds back from it either.
Tax cuts while spending - thats what the Bush admins. did during their time and look where it sent us?
A bill is going to be passed there is no way about it. If the money is going to be spent I want it spent on what it is intended for not pork or other projects. I was against the bail out and against the stimulus. I know a version will pass there is no way around it. Obama promised it so he and the democrats must deliver. A trillion dollars are going to be spent. I assume that go toward fixing bridges,roads and other infrastructure instead of a democratic wish list.
Starbuck1975
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2005
- 14,698
- 1,909
- 126
That is all it is...Producers are essentially the venture capitalists of the movie industry...the financial backing for making films...I fail to see why they require bailout money to essentially reduce the risk element for what scripts they choose to develop.
We need a valid set of criteria to segregate waste from smart investments...job creation is a useful benchmark...this whole broadcast conversion is a perfect example of big government bureaucratic inefficiency.
No it doesn't...green technologies are not fully mature, nor are they cost effective for mass production such that Americans will find hybrids a valid alternative to fossil fuel vehicles...look at what happened once gas prices dropped...we surged back to our SUVs...rather then buy a bunch of hybrids, we should divert funds to R&D projects and invest in public transportation projects.
We will have to agree to disagree on Social Security.
Unfortunately, the Democrats in Congress are demonstrating the same level of arrogance...what happened to an era of bipartisanship?
Pelosi is business as usual in Washington. Obama was and is change from Bush...Pelosi is way off target and undermining Obama's promises...but don't take my word for it...the honeymoon is over...the media is starting to question some of Obama's decisions...you have a string of appointment nominees now humiliated for tax evasion charges...and you have Pelosi forwarding a typical partisan agenda of pork barrel spending...Obama's approval rating has already taken a 20 point hit because of it.
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