The GOP, Boehner, spending and the little engine that could...

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,630
33,209
136
The message from the GOP is clear. The results of the last election is about the economy and spending. Just today Speaker of the House Boehner claimed the federal government added 200,000 jobs since Obama took office. Ole JB seems to have pulled that figure out of his ass since the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, who actually tracks these things says the number is around 50,000. He also said if we lose those jobs "so be it"

Years ago the defense dept comissioned the building of F35s. However John Boehner and the people in his district are pushing for a second engine to be built for this plane which the defense department says it doesn't need.

"The Pentagon insists GE’s second engine isn’t needed, that it has no use for it, and that further development is a waste of money. But the engine’s supporters in Congress—and Evendale, where GE employs more than 7,000—beg to differ...“

http://onthehillblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/no-he-wouldntwould-he-house-speakers.html

Really John?? Since you are so gung ho on the spending thing can't wait until a reporter asks you about this. I must admit you and the GOP fooled an awful lot of people the last election.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Republicans are not stupid (least ones that get elected) they understand much of our GDP (about half) is government spending and every dollar cut is a job lost. Basically we're in a debt death spiral none has the will to escape from.

My Republican friends end up calling them RINO's, but they have no choice or else we'll have a little Egypt of our own and they know it.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
The price of the wasteful spending for this isn't mentioned in the OP - it's $450 million.

This should be raised at every press conference he talks about cuts. It won't be.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,839
2,625
136
Its not spending, its stimulus.

If your feeble joke is an implication to blame this on Obama, you're factually dead wrong-again. Obama opposes the second engine project and didn't include it in his budget (nor did GWB). Stimulus is spending designed to prime the economic engine. The second engine project is pork, pure and simple. It's even set up so that the subcontracting is spread out to as many "important" congressional districts as possible so as to get the right backers.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
The message from the GOP is clear. The results of the last election is about the economy and spending. Just today Speaker of the House Boehner claimed the federal government added 200,000 jobs since Obama took office. Ole JB seems to have pulled that figure out of his ass since the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, who actually tracks these things says the number is around 50,000. He also said if we lose those jobs "so be it"

Years ago the defense dept comissioned the building of F35s. However John Boehner and the people in his district are pushing for a second engine to be built for this plane which the defense department says it doesn't need.



http://onthehillblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/no-he-wouldntwould-he-house-speakers.html

Really John?? Since you are so gung ho on the spending thing can't wait until a reporter asks you about this. I must admit you and the GOP fooled an awful lot of people the last election.
I believe what Boehner actually said was that about 200,000 federal employees had been hired within the last two years, which is true. As great as federal jobs are, people do leave them, nor do they make you immortal. And 50,000 NEW federal jobs when the private sector is struggling is also shameful.

I completely agree about the funding for GE though. The Pratt & Whitney engine development is doing fine, much better than the GE engine or indeed than the project as a whole. If GE wants to develop it, GE should fund that development 100%. This is pure pork.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
^^^ He was including the people temporary hired for the census, he's an imbecile, pure and simple.

Also the amount of new fed jobs\1000 people is lowest since the 60's.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
The message from the GOP is clear. The results of the last election is about the economy and spending. Just today Speaker of the House Boehner claimed the federal government added 200,000 jobs since Obama took office. Ole JB seems to have pulled that figure out of his ass since the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, who actually tracks these things says the number is around 50,000. He also said if we lose those jobs "so be it"

Years ago the defense dept comissioned the building of F35s. However John Boehner and the people in his district are pushing for a second engine to be built for this plane which the defense department says it doesn't need.



http://onthehillblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/no-he-wouldntwould-he-house-speakers.html

Really John?? Since you are so gung ho on the spending thing can't wait until a reporter asks you about this. I must admit you and the GOP fooled an awful lot of people the last election.

He probably used the same calculator Obama and Biden use when telling us how many jobs the stimulus created\saved.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
26,364
12,504
136
I believe what Boehner actually said was that about 200,000 federal employees had been hired within the last two years, which is true. As great as federal jobs are, people do leave them, nor do they make you immortal. And 50,000 NEW federal jobs when the private sector is struggling is also shameful.

He counted the temporary hire Census workers. Not to take away from your rant.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,405
8,584
126
we already have a thread on boner's district getting an engine that the military doesn't want.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Both sides are going to lie to make themselves look good and make the other guy look bad. Hopefully they are being more reasonable behind closed doors like Clinton and his Republican congress.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
He counted the temporary hire Census workers. Not to take away from your rant.
Link? The reason I'm questioning that is that I've heard that same number quoted not as a slam against Obama, but to make the point that a relatively large number of federal employees have been at their jobs for only two years or less.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
It's "only" $450 million this year, but $3 billion over the next few years:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110216/ap_on_re_us/us_congress_spending
"[ Secretary of Defense ] Gates has said the engine would waste almost $3 billion over the next few years, ..."

Hopefully the other Republicans in congress will stop this $3 billion in pork spending.
Thanks for the link. My first instinct was to say hopefully flying unicorns will come down and fund it with their fairy gold, which is about as likely, but this article gives me a bit of hope.
The 233-198 tally was a loss for House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, whose state reaps about 1,000 jobs from the engine program, built by the General Electric Co. and Rolls-Royce.

It was a big victory for lawmakers from Democrat-dominated Connecticut, where the main F-35 fighter engine is built by Pratt & Whitney, a unit of United Technologies Corp. Former President George W. Bush had also tried to kill the second engine.

The showdown vote came just hours after Gates and Joint Chiefs Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen testified against the alternative engine before the Armed Services Committee, which has repeatedly backed it.

"I've been doing money a long time, I can't make sense out of a second engine," Mullen said.

The vote was an early test for 87 GOP freshmen who confronted a choice between cutting spending and injecting competition into the F-35 program, the costliest weapons program in Defense Department history.

The money for the engine was included in a $1.2 trillion spending bill that would make deep cuts while wrapping up the unfinished business lawmakers inherited after last year's collapse of the budget process. That includes $1.03 trillion for agency operating budgets that need annual approval by Congress and $158 billion for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Democratic-controlled Senate supports the second engine. That, combined with Boehner's backing, could yet keep the program alive.

The engine battle divides along regional rather than party lines, in contrast to the partisan warfare on the underlying bill, which sharply cuts domestic programs and foreign aid and earned a veto threat from the White House budget office and a warning from Obama against unwise cuts "that could endanger the recovery."
Just goes to show how weird politics can be I guess. What both sides are overlooking is that $3 billion for an unneeded alternative engine means $3 billion that isn't spent for UAVs to check for danger ahead or inside buildings, recce and surveillance systems to catch those planting IEDs, better missile counter-measures, improved MRAP vehicles, better language training, and literally a slew of other things needed right now. Nobody wants to lose a thousand jobs, but lives are at stake.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
The Center for American Progress was asked to estimate the number of jobs that would be list if the Republicans get the cuts they want. The CAP's estimate was that the almost one million jobs would be lost. There was an Op-Ed piece on this in the Washington Post today about Boehner's hypocrisy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.../02/15/AR2011021505223.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

"So be it."

That was House Speaker John Boehner's cold answer when asked Tuesday about job losses that would come from his new Republican majority's plans to cut tens of billions of dollars in government spending this year.

"Do you have any sort of estimate on how many jobs will be lost through this?" Pacifica Radio's Leigh Ann Caldwell inquired at a news conference just before the House began its debate on the cuts.

Boehner stood firm in his polished tassel loafers. "Since President Obama has taken office the federal government has added 200,000 new federal jobs, and if some of those jobs are lost in this, so be it," he said.

"Do you have any estimate of how many will?" Caldwell pressed. "And won't that negatively impact the economy?"

"I do not," Boehner replied, moving to the next questioner.

Well, Mr. Speaker, I do. I checked with budget expert Scott Lilly of the Center for American Progress, and, using the usual multipliers, he calculated that the cuts - a net of $59 billion in the last half of fiscal 2011 - would lead to the loss of 650,000 government jobs, and the indirect loss of 325,000 more jobs as fewer government workers travel and buy things. That's nearly 1 million jobs - possibly enough to tip the economy back into recession.

Let's assume that Boehner is not as heartless as his words sound. Let's accept that he really believes, as he put it, that "if we reduce spending we'll create a better environment for job creation in America." A more balanced budget would indeed improve the jobs market - in the long run.

But in the short run, the cuts Boehner and his caucus propose would cause a shock to the economy that would slow, if not reverse, the recovery. And however pure Boehner's motives may be, the dirty truth is that a stall in the recovery would bring political benefits to the Republicans in the 2012 elections. It is in their political interests for unemployment to remain higher for the next two years. "So be it" is callous but rational.

Boehner could dismiss the forecasts of job losses as the work of liberal administration critics. But Boehner himself is well aware that the cuts will lead to more unemployment; that's why he's fighting hard to shield his Ohio constituents.

Among the savings proposed by the Obama administration (and before that, the Bush administration) is to end the wasteful effort to develop a second engine for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The Pentagon is satisfied with the engine it has, made by Pratt & Whitney, and it doesn't want the second engine, made by General Electric and others. Eliminating the second engine would save $450 million this year and some $3 billion over 10 years.

But it just so happens that a GE plant that develops the second engine employs 7,000 people in Evendale, Ohio, near Boehner's district. Rather than take a so-be-it attitude toward jobs his constituents may hold, he's backing an earmark-like provision in the spending legislation to keep funding the unneeded GE engine.

"I believe that over the next 10 years this will save the government money," Boehner reasoned at his news conference.


This puts Boehner at odds with some members of his caucus, who, in a news conference half an hour after Boehner's, dismissed the speaker's wishful notion that the locally built engine would save money.

"That kind of speculation is not something the American people have patience for," said Rep. Tom Rooney (R-Fla.). Freshman Rep. Robert Dold (R-Ill.) correctly judged that "Speaker Boehner has a constituency that he's representing as well as being the leader of the House."

Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.) reminded GOP leaders that cutting the wasteful engine is "the right thing to do, and I think the American people sent that message loud and clear."

Several of those at the later news conference were merely protecting jobs in their own districts. But Rep. Tim Griffin (R-Ark.), whose constituents don't make either engine, used Boehner's logic against the speaker. "The number one thing that we can do for jobs in this country is get our spending under control," Griffin said.

Over many years, that may be true. But in the short term, deep cuts will mean catastrophic job losses. Whether the unemployed are in Evendale, Ohio, or elsewhere in America, "so be it" won't cut it.

Focusing budget-cutting on solely the discretionary part of the federal budget has been the coward's approach to 'fiscal responsibility" for far too long. Everyone with a brain knows that the big drivers of our deficits are Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, health spending, and defense. Yet no one on either the right or the left has the intellectual honesty to take on these "big five" and explain to the American people that "shrinking government" means significant suffering by everyone, not just fantasy scapegoats.

We will have a $1.6 TRILLION deficit this year. Someone please explain to me how cutting $59 billion from the discretionary budget is a serious attempt to control spending? If the Republicans are really serious about shrinking government, let's see them propose serious changes to the big five and back those proposals up with a CBO analysis that shows a balanced budget in the not-too-distant future. Instead, all we hear from the right is propaganda.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,988
8,585
136
Thanks for the link. My first instinct was to say hopefully flying unicorns will come down and fund it with their fairy gold, which is about as likely, but this article gives me a bit of hope.

Just goes to show how weird politics can be I guess. What both sides are overlooking is that $3 billion for an unneeded alternative engine means $3 billion that isn't spent for UAVs to check for danger ahead or inside buildings, recce and surveillance systems to catch those planting IEDs, better missile counter-measures, improved MRAP vehicles, better language training, and literally a slew of other things needed right now. Nobody wants to lose a thousand jobs, but lives are at stake.


Very well said.:thumbsup:

It has always been my heartfelt contention that the lives of our military members come first and foremost. I know it's impossible to truly know how it feels to be outside the wire in the bad guy's backyard with the pucker meter pegged out unless it's personally experienced, but that shouldn't stop the folks at home from putting aside all else and fully appreciating just how much of a sacrifice our members of the military make every moment they're in service to our country.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
The Center for American Progress was asked to estimate the number of jobs that would be list if the Republicans get the cuts they want. The CAP's estimate was that the almost one million jobs would be lost. There was an Op-Ed piece on this in the Washington Post today about Boehner's hypocrisy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.../02/15/AR2011021505223.html?hpid=opinionsbox1



Focusing budget-cutting on solely the discretionary part of the federal budget has been the coward's approach to 'fiscal responsibility" for far too long. Everyone with a brain knows that the big drivers of our deficits are Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, health spending, and defense. Yet no one on either the right or the left has the intellectual honesty to take on these "big five" and explain to the American people that "shrinking government" means significant suffering by everyone, not just fantasy scapegoats.

We will have a $1.6 TRILLION deficit this year. Someone please explain to me how cutting $59 billion from the discretionary budget is a serious attempt to control spending? If the Republicans are really serious about shrinking government, let's see them propose serious changes to the big five and back those proposals up with a CBO analysis that shows a balanced budget in the not-too-distant future. Instead, all we hear from the right is propaganda.
Good points, and I stand corrected about Boehner's statement. I will however point out that Obama's plan - we spend a bunch of money now, and, um, then prosperity happens (presumably because we've appeased the Underpants Gnomes as no one can possibly argue the federal government has been lax in spending), is even more propaganda and even less solution. Is the guy that throws a little water on the raging fire REALLY worse than the guy who adds fuel?

And LOLs over the Center for American Progress, the left's equivalent of having Boehner's plan graded by his mom.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Very well said.:thumbsup:

It has always been my heartfelt contention that the lives of our military members come first and foremost. I know it's impossible to truly know how it feels to be outside the wire in the bad guy's backyard with the pucker meter pegged out unless it's personally experienced, but that shouldn't stop the folks at home from putting aside all else and fully appreciating just how much of a sacrifice our members of the military make every moment they're in service to our country.
Thanks!
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Thanks for the link. My first instinct was to say hopefully flying unicorns will come down and fund it with their fairy gold, which is about as likely, but this article gives me a bit of hope.

Just goes to show how weird politics can be I guess. What both sides are overlooking is that $3 billion for an unneeded alternative engine means $3 billion that isn't spent for UAVs to check for danger ahead or inside buildings, recce and surveillance systems to catch those planting IEDs, better missile counter-measures, improved MRAP vehicles, better language training, and literally a slew of other things needed right now. Nobody wants to lose a thousand jobs, but lives are at stake.

Right, the Seattle Times is running a series now on how soldiers in Afghanistan out on combat missions have to carry up to 100 pounds of gear. Spending some of that $3B on developing lighter armor and gear makes a lot more sense than paying for an engine that isn't needed.

Cutting the defense budget is always portrayed as short-changing the troops, but there is a lot of pork in the budget that mainly benefits the corporations and campaign contributions of the congresscritters.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
It's a shame that their preoccupation with the budget deficit blinds them from the real problem--low tax revenue and increased need for government welfare and social services as a result of a comatose economy and job market. Maybe if they would spend less time squabbling over the budget and more time raising tariffs, eliminating the H-1B and L-1 visa programs, ending mass immigration and deporting the illegals, and perhaps increasing taxes on the rich and super rich they could actually do something for the American people.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
It's a shame that their preoccupation with the budget deficit blinds them from the real problem--low tax revenue and increased need for government welfare and social services as a result of a comatose economy and job market. Maybe if they would spend less time squabbling over the budget and more time raising tariffs, eliminating the H-1B and L-1 visa programs, ending mass immigration and deporting the illegals, and perhaps increasing taxes on the rich and super rich they could actually do something for the American people.

Bingo. There is a reason that 50% of the working people in this country fall below the federal income tax line and it's not getting better, it's getting worse.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
shira

Please post the figures that represent SS as a huge deficit item.

I bet you a glass of Kool Aide you can't.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Right, the Seattle Times is running a series now on how soldiers in Afghanistan out on combat missions have to carry up to 100 pounds of gear. Spending some of that $3B on developing lighter armor and gear makes a lot more sense than paying for an engine that isn't needed.

Cutting the defense budget is always portrayed as short-changing the troops, but there is a lot of pork in the budget that mainly benefits the corporations and campaign contributions of the congresscritters.
Agreed. Or on building MULEs or similar but smaller pack bots that carry loads and follow soldiers.