The German state of Baden-Wuerttemberg has given initial approval for headscarf ban

[freegeeks]

That's because you have an unhealty obsession with posting ridiculous comments

That's not my only argument. When I do use it, I mainly say it to show how much better the US has been as a superpower and to show that if Europeans were a superpower, they would not be benevolent and generous and be all happy go lucky with the world - they would do at LEAST what everyone else would do...do whatever is in their best interest. However, certain European members of this forum like to think otherwise. History obviously isn't on their side.

And I don't say 'look what happened 200 years ago' since a lot of incidents happened less than 200 years ago.

I can say that all of your arguments are basically 'Americans wear tight flags on their heads'.

Why would I want to post an article about two people smashing their heads in Belgium or anywhere else? It makes no sense

I'm Belgian and if you find such a story you can use it to claim that it was already in our genes 100000 years ago
wouldn't that be great, you can go back 100 years, 200, 500 and 100000 years

then you can claim that we are Racist Eurowheenie Violent Pigs


wouldn't that be great, I'll try to find such a link, then you can use it in another thread

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

That's because you have an unhealty obsession with posting ridiculous comments

That's not my only argument. When I do use it, I mainly say it to show how much better the US has been as a superpower and to show that if Europeans were a superpower, they would not be benevolent and generous and be all happy go lucky with the world - they would do at LEAST what everyone else would do...do whatever is in their best interest. However, certain European members of this forum like to think otherwise. History obviously isn't on their side.

And I don't say 'look what happened 200 years ago' since a lot of incidents happened less than 200 years ago.

I can say that all of your arguments are basically 'Americans wear tight flags on their heads'.

Why would I want to post an article about two people smashing their heads in Belgium or anywhere else? It makes no sense

I'm Belgian and if you find such a story you can use it to claim that it was already in our genes 100000 years ago

then you can claim that we are Racist Eurowheenie Violent Pigs


wouldn't that be great, I'll try to find such a link, then you can use in another thread

I like how you are trying to act like you're some victim here and completely ignore what I said.

I don't think that I would claim anything about your genes or biology.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: freegeeks
woohoooo BOOne

join the club


I'm also an officially labeled racist Eurowheenie


we should start an official club


Because of this statement against a german who was not even born during WWII

That's because you hate muslims, and feel remorse over gassing the "jwisch guys".

you deserve the "I'm the anal a$$hole of the month award"

congrats


:beer:

Yes, it would be convenient for you if we would all forget European history, wouldn't it?

at the rate you guys are going, the world is certainly not going to forget about US history

Why would they forget it? A place where people's similarities as well as differences were embraced, a nation that didn't recklessly hold its power like the ones before it, etc.

 

[heartsurgeon]

Chiraq is our president, you should have known that

Liberal ploy again....i said "you Euroweenies made him the President of your club", and you did..linky....quit lying.. he was President of the Council of the European Union up until december of 2003.

 

[Rmex]

Muslims will outnumber White Europeans in about 50-100 years, so i dont see why Europeans are trying to ban muslims from expressing themselves now....AFTERALL, Europeans were the ones who decided to let them migrate over from various parts of the muslim world, so its not like Muslims would just move to Europe and then leave thier religion-culture-and beliefs behind.

:moon:
:beer:

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

Chiraq is our president, you should have known that

Liberal ploy again....i said "you Euroweenies made him the President of your club", and you did..linky....quit lying.. he was President of the Council of the European Union up until december of 2003.

if you knew anything about the EU you would know that there is a rotating presidency of the EU
(every 6 months). We didn't MAKE him president. It was just Italy's turn for the presidency


just prove that you don't know anything about the internal workings of the EU

don't worry about that, we're pretty used to it that Americans know nothing about stuf like that



Chiraq is the president of our Racist Eurowheenie Pig club

 

[FrodoB]

Originally posted by: Rmex
Muslims will outnumber White Europeans in about 50-100 years, so i dont see why Europeans are trying to ban muslims from expressing themselves now....AFTERALL, Europeans were the ones who decided to let them migrate over from various parts of the muslim world, so its not like Muslims would just move to Europe and then leave thier religion-culture-and beliefs behind.

:moon:
:beer:

In my opinion it's not immigration that's the issue. Pathetic birthrates leading to steeply declining populations are to blame for this kind of racist behavior. Fear. The Europeans are scared now because they know their days of being a major civilization are numbered. They only have themselves to blame.

 

[heartsurgeon]

Chiraq

HAHAHAHAHA that is a MUCH better way to spell Chirac..

if you knew anything about the EU you would know that there is a rotating presidency of the EU
(every 6 months). We didn't MAKE him president. It was just Italy's turn for the presidency

so you admit he was your president. Who wrote the rules that made him president? Oops, a bunch of Euroweenies did.

if Chirac is President of the E.U., then what does Bertie Ahern do?

 

[Rmex]

Originally posted by: FrodoB

Originally posted by: Rmex
Muslims will outnumber White Europeans in about 50-100 years, so i dont see why Europeans are trying to ban muslims from expressing themselves now....AFTERALL, Europeans were the ones who decided to let them migrate over from various parts of the muslim world, so its not like Muslims would just move to Europe and then leave thier religion-culture-and beliefs behind.

:moon:
:beer:

In my opinion it's not immigration that's the issue. Pathetic birthrates leading to steeply declining populations are to blame for this kind of racist behavior. Fear. The Europeans are scared now because they know their days of being a major civilization are numbered. They only have themselves to blame.

low birth rates are a typical sighn of a conquered people, i think the socialists have won.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: Rmex

low birth rates are a typical sighn of a conquered people, i think the socialists have won.

...which might explain why the German government gives you some 'geld' when you have a child.

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Talk about being incredibly intolerant. So is every Muslim that wears a head scarf a 'radical muslim'? I don't think so.

If children can't identify their teacher's face when they're wearing a head scarf, then that's just sad. Seems to be like some people are trying to justify their intolerant nature.

Talk about not being able to read. I said generalized speaking - which means that not all but many headscarf wearing woman are (or their families) And radical was the wrong word - fundamentalist is better.

So you can identify ppl by seeing only the eyes - wow you have some x-ray vision.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Talk about being incredibly intolerant. So is every Muslim that wears a head scarf a 'radical muslim'? I don't think so.

If children can't identify their teacher's face when they're wearing a head scarf, then that's just sad. Seems to be like some people are trying to justify their intolerant nature.

Talk about not being able to read. I said generalized speaking - which means that not all but many headscarf wearing woman are (or their families) And radical was the wrong word - fundamentalist is better.

So you can identify ppl by seeing only the eyes - wow you have some x-ray vision.

Wow...

It's a scarf, not a mask. You can still identify people that wear one. What excuse is he going to make up next to try to hide his intolerant views?

 

[B00ne]

Then walk around here at look at them, It is almost a mask.

Some yes have a simple scarf - there is no problem with that. I am talking about the women being almost completely covered. There are many ppl wearing a scarf you dont have to be fundamental not even muslim for that. I guess you guys dont know how the headscarfs of islamists look like: Think Afghanistan minus the net in front of the eyes.

 

[CanOWorms]

The article says that they're banning headscarves & has a woman wearing a headscarf in the article. A hijab (I'm not sure how to spell it) is not a veil, it leaves the face exposed.

 

[B00ne]

I dont know what they are banning - I dont live there. I just know how the ones that I would call fundamental look around here. And yes I am prejeduce against fundamental muslims. There are so many fundamental muslim organizations here that hide in our freedom but thair goal is to abolish it overturn our system and erect a muslim state. I dont like that.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: B00ne
I dont know what they are banning - I dont live there. I just know how the ones that I would call fundamental look around here. And yes I am prejeduce against fundamental muslims. There are so many fundamental muslim organizations here that hide in our freedom but thair goal is to abolish it overturn our system and erect a muslim state. I dont like that.

Yes you know what they're banning, it's in the article which you obviously read.

Sure, the evil, evil immigrants are trying to destroy you

 

[B00ne]

Where did I say anything about immigrants?

We were talking about fundamental Muslims. And yes the fundamentals are also out to destroy you as evidenced by the Atta & Co who we living in Hamburg and also had contact with fundamental orgs like Kalifstaat.

 

[heartsurgeon]

And yes I am prejeduce against fundamental muslims

Glad to see you begin to admit your problems..

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

In Afganistan it was ok for u to bitch about the woman having to wear burkas

Time to cut back on the schnapps..it's a very different thing to "bitch" about women being forced to wear burkas by law, versus women choosing to wear burkas if they want to. Your law would presumbly prohibit any women from choosing to wear a head scarf..hardly s subtle distinction..

Sorry, I have only read part of this thread, so someone may have already commented on this.

Note that someone else mentioned that Muslims in Europe are generally not assimilating into the existing culture. Therefore, within their own culture, there is (or could be) a lot of social pressure that can force people to behave in ways that they would choose not to if they could. Islam tends to be very intolerant of women who wish to assert their own identity.

What happens when Islamic pressure conflicts with the concepts of equality guaranteed under rule of law? Is the State obligated to ensure equality? Or do such laws become essentially worthless in the face of religion and culture? Do the Islamic people in Europe consider themselves citizens of Europe first (and the various countries therein), or Muslims first?

 

[heartsurgeon]

Islamic pressure

Here we go again, that's a RACIST comment. If a man (muslim or jew or christian) beats a woman..that's against the law. If a religion teaches someone to marry within their own faith (himmm, that includes the jews, the christians, the catholics, ....) are you going to pass a law against that "pressure"?
if a religion teaches someone to wear a head covering are you going to pass a law against that (oops, jews again). if a religion teaches someone that only men can lead religious gatherings (oops, catholics) are you going to pass a law against that "discrimination"

the use of the word "pressure" is perjorative, and suggests that according to your view any religious teachings that go contrary to you religious beliefs can be called "pressure".

you know what..if devout muslims feel a calling to work within a political system to change it to reflect their personally held belief's - MORE POWER TO THEM..christians certainly are doing this, the jews do it, heck every religious group tries to influence politics and culture..so why shouldn't the muslims....now, if someone advocates the violent overthrow of the goverment, or breaks the law...LOCK EM UP...but to whine about muslims not assimlating, about muslims wanting to "change the culture" or "change the political institutions"....well that's their right, and that's the way a vigorous democracy should work....and the best of their ideas will get incorporated into our culture and political life...that's progress, not stultification..

Do the Islamic people in Europe consider themselves citizens of Europe first (and the various countries therein), or Muslims first?

This is the same stuff the Nazi's said about the Jews back in the 40's....your need to read some more history to understand what your line of reasoning has led others to do.....

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

Islamic pressure

Here we go again, that's a RACIST comment.

Racist? Against what, the "Islamic" race?

If a man (muslim or jew or christian) beats a woman..that's against the law.

The point I wish to make here is what if religious "law" allows something, whereas secular national law does not, what must be followed? The Taliban advocated it in the name of an Islamic state; if enough Muslims gain enough political power in France and Germany, could not such a thing become legal there? Why not? (Constitutions can be amended..)

If a religion teaches someone to marry within their own faith (himmm, that includes the jews, the christians, the catholics, ....) are you going to pass a law against that "pressure"?
if a religion teaches someone to wear a head covering are you going to pass a law against that (oops, jews again). if a religion teaches someone that only men can lead religious gatherings (oops, catholics) are you going to pass a law against that "discrimination"

the use of the word "pressure" is perjorative, and suggests that according to your view any religious teachings that go contrary to you religious beliefs can be called "pressure".

I'm thinking of pressure here in the sense of social, or peer-pressure.

you know what..if devout muslims feel a calling to work within a political system to change it to reflect their personally held belief's - MORE POWER TO THEM..christians certainly are doing this, the jews do it, heck every religious group tries to influence politics and culture..so why shouldn't the muslims....now, if someone advocates the violent overthrow of the goverment, or breaks the law...LOCK EM UP...but to whine about muslims not assimlating, about muslims wanting to "change the culture" or "change the political institutions"....well that's their right, and that's the way a vigorous democracy should work....and the best of their ideas will get incorporated into our culture and political life...that's progress, not stultification..

Do the Islamic people in Europe consider themselves citizens of Europe first (and the various countries therein), or Muslims first?

This is the same stuff the Nazi's said about the Jews back in the 40's....your need to read some more history to understand what your line of reasoning has led others to do.....

Islam is to many people more than just a religion; it is a way of life and a form of government. The fear is that in a democracy where enough Muslims gain enough political power, they could vote themselves into an Islamic state. Perhaps not all at once, but gradually. Perhaps that's ok with you, in the name of a "vigorous democracy", but Islam tends not to think highly of those who are not themselves Muslim.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Talk about being incredibly intolerant. So is every Muslim that wears a head scarf a 'radical muslim'? I don't think so.

If children can't identify their teacher's face when they're wearing a head scarf, then that's just sad. Seems to be like some people are trying to justify their intolerant nature.

Talk about not being able to read. I said generalized speaking - which means that not all but many headscarf wearing woman are (or their families) And radical was the wrong word - fundamentalist is better.

So you can identify ppl by seeing only the eyes - wow you have some x-ray vision.

Talk about not being able to read!

Why would I need x-ray vision to identify a person if their face is fully exposed?

Now if what was being banned was the full veil and what not, then that could be a comletely different argument.

I think that you have some sort of slight prejudice against Muslims already - you see the extreme fundamentalists trying to 'destroy' your society and apply the same hatred to all Muslims now.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

In Afganistan it was ok for u to bitch about the woman having to wear burkas

Time to cut back on the schnapps..it's a very different thing to "bitch" about women being forced to wear burkas by law, versus women choosing to wear burkas if they want to. Your law would presumbly prohibit any women from choosing to wear a head scarf..hardly s subtle distinction..

Note that someone else mentioned that Muslims in Europe are generally not assimilating into the existing culture.

That's some crap that certain people like to say to make themselves feel better. Bottom line is that no immigrant anywhere 'assimilates' into a society - they partially integrate. They keep their own customs as well as adopt some new ones.

 

[heartsurgeon]

Islam is to many people more than just a religion

well. lets see..

Judiasm is more than a religion to many people it is a way of life.
Christianity is more than a religion to many people, it is a way of life.

are these false statements? i don't think they are, i think you can find many "devout" or "orthodox" or "conservative" or "born-again" or "ultra-orthodox" religious folks who
feel just the same way about their beliefs that some Muslims do. Aren't there Jewish communities in New York that have their own relgious courts for settling disputes, and the Rabbi acts like a "Mayor" as well as spiritual leader (didn't Hilary Clinton receive a large campaign contribution from such a group..linky) Aren't there communities in Pennsylvania where Quakers live, how about Amish folk...gee come to think of it, they MAKE their women wear head gear and black clothes...

Islam tends not to think highly of those who are not themselves Muslim.

Another racist comment..don't Jews consider themselves "the Chosen Ones", don't Christians consider themselves "saved" and all others doomed to roast for eternity come on now, what religious group in the world doesn't think they are going to heaven,and everyone else better slather on the suntan lotion....you are continuing make racist remarks,

they could vote themselves into an Islamic state. Perhaps not all at once, but gradually

Gee, but it's ok that The Christian Right tries to "vote" in changes to make the U.S. more "Christian" (school prayer, support for christian schools and charities, ban Gay marriage)

this debate has been going on as long as the U.S. has existed. every religious group has been accomodated. every religious group tries to influence the political scene, but you are singling out the Muslims for your "fear" that they will change the goverment in a way you don't agree with...

if your that paranoid about the Muslims trying to reorder your universe...you must be out of your mind about the Mexicans moving into California...

 

[Rmex]

Its just fear and racism masked by saying they dislike the islamic religion. White americans do the same thing, but toward mexicans instead of arabs. Only difference between european and american white - is that unlike Arabs, mexican-americans are Christian so white americans cant say nothing of note about us immigrating over. Europeans however can use the religion excuse. Besides, for every Arab that moves to America we will have 10 christian mexican brothers coming over the border to offset that potential religous difference.

:moon: