The Future of P&N?

[Doc Savage Fan]

Although the concept of DC was quite noble, after posting there a few times I became uncomfortable with certain "dynamics" of the forum. Despite being a "cesspool", it turns out that I much prefer P&N instead. Go figure.

Anyway...the mods here in P&N give us pretty much of a free reign...which is both good and bad in my opinion. We tried a "no insults" rule for a while to help clean it up, but the majority found this policy to be way too restrictive. Since then, the rule has been rescinded and it appears that the mods have now taken a completely "hands off" approach in this regard. I personally believe that we just need to control the tone of this forum a little better instead of going from "zero tolerance" to "no holds barred" extremes.

We have some posters here that consistently contribute little or nothing except insults. These people are killing this forum. I don't know how a new rule should be written...but we need something that would allow reasonable moderation. In my opinion, we have way too many that never contribute anything of value and are only here to insult and constantly derail attempts at respectful dialogue.

I'd like to hear from you your thoughts...what kind of future do you want?


Thread closed due to personal issues being discussed.
Additional details in last post.

EK
Admin

 

[sixone]

The "no personal attacks" rule mostly works pretty well in L&R. No reason why it can't work here - other than the time and attention it would need from moderators.

 

[Incorruptible]

I dont see the need for insults allowed in P&N. Allowing insults only causes more trouble where users continually attack each other

 

[jackstar7]

For the sake of contrast, can you elaborate on the dynamics of DC that bothered you?

As for P&N, topics will be divisive and conversations will be heated. I do think there should probably be a bit of cleanup with regards to a couple posters (harsh warnings might certainly generate a good response, I'm not advocating banning anyone... that doesn't already appear to be banned).

I look at P&N as a more casual conversation about lightning rod topics and with a couple folks on ignore, I find most threads can generate some worthwhile discourse.

I do believe that over time more people will migrate to DC though as it has generally improved the SNR as opposed to P&N. If P&N could improve it's SNR though, then I think DC could just be folded back in and there'd be a single, better place to discuss things.

But there definitely seem to be some folks who stop in just to throw shit on the walls and it can be tiring for those who feel compelled to try and clean it.

I do not think those that insult are killing the forum. Use the ignore feature. You can always click a post to read it. Also, do you report the posts you find to be pointless?


Can you elaborate on what you'd like the forum to be? Are there topics that could serve as examples?

 

[Atomic Playboy]

The "no personal attacks" rule mostly works pretty well in L&R. No reason why it can't work here - other than the time and attention it would need from moderators.

No one feels as strongly about someone else's relationship issues as they do about their own political or religious ideology. If I'm offering you advice on relationship troubles or opining on oral sex, I don't really feel a strong personal connection to the issue. But if somebody offers that my political beliefs are wrong, that can feel like a personal attack, since it's such a key part of defining who we are. And tempers get heated and people respond with vitriol rather than rationality. It's just how these things go.

 

[sixone]

No one feels as strongly about someone else's relationship issues as they do about their own political or religious ideology. If I'm offering you advice on relationship troubles or opining on oral sex, I don't really feel a strong personal connection to the issue. But if somebody offers that my political beliefs are wrong, that can feel like a personal attack, since it's such a key part of defining who we are. And tempers get heated and people respond with vitriol rather than rationality. It's just how these things go.

The difference between attacking an idea and attacking the person who posted it is pretty clear.

How it feels is something we should all be mature enough to cope with.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

The difference between attacking an idea and attacking the person who posted it is pretty clear.

How it feels is something we should all be mature enough to cope with.

Agreed. But people often aren't as good as their best intentions.

 

[Theb]

For the sake of contrast, can you elaborate on the dynamics of DC that bothered you?

Just a guess: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2309280

qq

 

[lotus503]

Although the concept of DC was quite noble, after posting there a few times I became uncomfortable with certain "dynamics" of the forum. Despite being a "cesspool", it turns out that I much prefer P&N instead. Go figure.

Anyway...the mods here in P&N give us pretty much of a free reign...which is both good and bad in my opinion. We tried a "no insults" rule for a while to help clean it up, but the majority found this policy to be way too restrictive. Since then, the rule has been rescinded and it appears that the mods have now taken a completely "hands off" approach in this regard. I personally believe that we just need to control the tone of this forum a little better instead of going from "zero tolerance" to "no holds barred" extremes.

We have some posters here that consistently contribute little or nothing except insults. These people are killing this forum. I don't know how a new rule should be written...but we need something that would allow reasonable moderation. In my opinion, we have way too many that never contribute anything of value and are only here to insult and constantly derail attempts at respectful dialogue.

I'd like to hear from you your thoughts...what kind of future do you want?

There are times I want some banter and enjoy the nuttiness of P&N.

There are times I would rather have dialogue absent the banter and nuttiness for that I prefer DC.

DC is way slower with lower overall participation but the conversations are way more respectful and stay on topic.

I think the way it is now is perfect, there is a place for adult discussion and a place for everything else.

 

[lotus503]

Just a guess: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2309280

qq

Which by the way was continued to be discussed in a respectful manner, with Doc rightfully highlighting some LW Christian hypocrisy if I recall.

 

[Theb]

There are times I want some banter and enjoy the nuttiness of P&N.

There are times I would rather have dialogue absent the banter and nuttiness for that I prefer DC.

DC is way slower with lower overall participation but the conversations are way more respectful and stay on topic.

I think the way it is now is perfect, there is a place for adult discussion and a place for everything else.

Second.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Although the concept of DC was quite noble, after posting there a few times I became uncomfortable with certain "dynamics" of the forum. Despite being a "cesspool", it turns out that I much prefer P&N instead. Go figure.

Anyway...the mods here in P&N give us pretty much of a free reign...which is both good and bad in my opinion. We tried a "no insults" rule for a while to help clean it up, but the majority found this policy to be way too restrictive. Since then, the rule has been rescinded and it appears that the mods have now taken a completely "hands off" approach in this regard. I personally believe that we just need to control the tone of this forum a little better instead of going from "zero tolerance" to "no holds barred" extremes.

We have some posters here that consistently contribute little or nothing except insults. These people are killing this forum. I don't know how a new rule should be written...but we need something that would allow reasonable moderation. In my opinion, we have way too many that never contribute anything of value and are only here to insult and constantly derail attempts at respectful dialogue.

I'd like to hear from you your thoughts...what kind of future do you want?

So nice of you to create a thread about me. I'm honored, really. :$

Quite frankly the fate of P&N was decided when it decided that instead of taking out the trash that had piled up in here that it was better to start a new forum without the trash.

Get rid of the trash, and much of the stench will go away with it.

BTW, it's hard to contribute anything of value in threads that are started with a troll post to begin with and go downhill from there.

 

[Spungo]

I dont see the need for insults allowed in P&N. Allowing insults only causes more trouble where users continually attack each other

Isn't fighting a good thing? One thing I noticed about UK politics is that the prime minister is in the house of commons getting yelled at all day. He or she will be called out for doing dumb things. US politics is completely reversed. The president lives in a bubble of yes men and fluffers. He probably doesn't even know how much of a piece of shit he is.

Not being protected is what keeps people in check. Can you imagine a day where nobody is allowed to call people out and police are everywhere to enforce this rule? A guy cuts in line at the store and you're not allowed to call him a prick? A guy steals things from your car and you're not allowed to shoot him? Should I be able to advocate returning to the gold standard without the threat of other forum members calling me an idiot?

 

[Nebor]

I didn't know what DC was before I opened this thread. But P&N is a cesspool, and I hate everyone in it with almost equal measure.

 

[Juror No. 8]

It's no coincidence that most of the people complaining about "trolls", "trash", and insults are of the authoritarian variety. They basically want to hammer their ideology home and proselytize about the virtues of collectivism enforced via Big Government without challenge. If you challenge their worldview, or force them into a debate they know they can't win, they almost always revert to calling their opponents "trolls". It's like a lifeboat for them. It's a way for them to abandon a sinking ship of an intellectual argument while saving a little face. In other words, they never lose arguments, they just encounter "troll" icebergs blocking their path, whom they incessantly beg the mods to deal (i.e., silence) with.

I think this board is fine the way it is. Discussions of a political, philosophical, ethical, or religious nature should be allowed to flow naturally. Unwelcome viewpoints and childish arguments can always be ignored and skipped over.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

For the sake of contrast, can you elaborate on the dynamics of DC that bothered you?

As for P&N, topics will be divisive and conversations will be heated. I do think there should probably be a bit of cleanup with regards to a couple posters (harsh warnings might certainly generate a good response, I'm not advocating banning anyone... that doesn't already appear to be banned).

I look at P&N as a more casual conversation about lightning rod topics and with a couple folks on ignore, I find most threads can generate some worthwhile discourse.

I do believe that over time more people will migrate to DC though as it has generally improved the SNR as opposed to P&N. If P&N could improve it's SNR though, then I think DC could just be folded back in and there'd be a single, better place to discuss things.

But there definitely seem to be some folks who stop in just to throw shit on the walls and it can be tiring for those who feel compelled to try and clean it.

I do not think those that insult are killing the forum. Use the ignore feature. You can always click a post to read it. Also, do you report the posts you find to be pointless?


Can you elaborate on what you'd like the forum to be? Are there topics that could serve as examples?

I'd rather not talk about what could be improved at DC...I'm hoping to focus on what could be improved at P&N.

Agree, I'm not advocating banning anyone either. However, I think an occasional slap on the wrist would go a long way to improving this forum.

I hate using the ignore feature and only do so in rare ocassions to help perserve my mental health. Also, there are occasions where a habitual hate spammer posts something interesting and I want to be open to that possibility.

I don't like to report posts either but I'm beginning to see that maybe I should. My main problem with this is that I don't want to be perceived as a perpetual whiner...that's the last thing I want.

The topics are fine, I just think a little tweaking could vastly improve the P&N "experience".

 

[monovillage]

Although the concept of DC was quite noble, after posting there a few times I became uncomfortable with certain "dynamics" of the forum. Despite being a "cesspool", it turns out that I much prefer P&N instead. Go figure.

Anyway...the mods here in P&N give us pretty much of a free reign...which is both good and bad in my opinion. We tried a "no insults" rule for a while to help clean it up, but the majority found this policy to be way too restrictive. Since then, the rule has been rescinded and it appears that the mods have now taken a completely "hands off" approach in this regard. I personally believe that we just need to control the tone of this forum a little better instead of going from "zero tolerance" to "no holds barred" extremes.

We have some posters here that consistently contribute little or nothing except insults. These people are killing this forum. I don't know how a new rule should be written...but we need something that would allow reasonable moderation. In my opinion, we have way too many that never contribute anything of value and are only here to insult and constantly derail attempts at respectful dialogue.

I'd like to hear from you your thoughts...what kind of future do you want?

I was in favor of the "no cursing" rule and the "no insults" rule. Quite frankly I thought those 2 changes were very successful at the time to rein in the extremes in P&N (including myself) and we were well on the path to a better and more civilized P&N. They had a re-vote and it seemed it was too time consuming to control and we dropped back to the free for all it is now.
I'm glad they instituted the DNC club and wish them all the best.

 

[airdata]

I wouldn't know. I got banned from it before it started. Would be curious to know if P&N's top liars & racists were regulars there and if they just go there to high five eachother.


You seem to have a hard time understanding why you got banned.

Nothing stops you from visiting there; jsut your attitude has precluded you from psoting there.

EK
Admin

 

[airdata]

I was in favor of the "no cursing" rule and the "no insults" rule. Quite frankly I thought those 2 changes were very successful at the time to rein in the extremes in P&N (including myself) and we were well on the path to a better and more civilized P&N. They had a re-vote and it seemed it was too time consuming to control and we dropped back to the free for all it is now.
I'm glad they instituted the DNC club and wish them all the best.

I wouldn't call it a free for all.

I got infracted last week for calling somebody a dumb a**. This after enjoying months of liberally using the C word toward anybody and everybody who I felt deserved it w\ no mods giving any F's.

You did not get infracted last week for calling somebody a dumba**. At least read your own infractions.
admin allisolm

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

So nice of you to create a thread about me. I'm honored, really. :$

Quite frankly the fate of P&N was decided when it decided that instead of taking out the trash that had piled up in here that it was better to start a new forum without the trash.

Get rid of the trash, and much of the stench will go away with it.

BTW, it's hard to contribute anything of value in threads that are started with a troll post to begin with and go downhill from there.

Sigh...it's not just about you; however if truth be told, you are the inspiration for this thread. I know you and I have had decent conversations in the past...but you really seem to be out of control lately.

It's no secret that you don't like a couple posters...that's fine...use ignore or whatever...but please do us all a favor and stop spamming your hatred and insults. Please.

 

[monovillage]

Second.

The members of the DNC get the best of both worlds, when they want opinions and discussions they already agree with they go to DNC, when they want to be rude, mean, nasty and trollish they come over to P&N and cut loose. What's not to like about the arrangement?

 

[monovillage]

I wouldn't call it a free for all.

I got infracted last week for calling somebody a dumb a**. This after enjoying months of liberally using the C word toward anybody and everybody who I felt deserved it w\ no mods giving any F's.

At times there's an inconsistency in it. It needs clear rules, especially about what is trolling etc.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Sigh...it's not just about you; however if truth be told, you are the inspiration for this thread. I know you and I have had decent conversations in the past...but you really seem to be out of control lately.

It's no secret that you don't like a couple posters...that's fine...use ignore or whatever...but please do us all a favor and stop spamming your hatred and insults. Please.

I know that, I was being smartass about it. I'm an equal opportunity asshole.:awe:
Perhaps it seems like more lately because I haven't been around much for at least a couple of weeks prior.

I do have to ask a question of you though. Can you honestly say that the posters I make fun of often contribute thoughtful, meaningful dialogue to P&N?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I wouldn't know. I got banned from it before it started. Would be curious to know if P&N's top liars & racists were regulars there and if they just go there to high five eachother.

No, they hang out in here and swap lies with you.

 

[jackstar7]

I'd rather not talk about what could be improved at DC...I'm hoping to focus on what could be improved at P&N.

Well, I just wanted to understand what bothered you to contrast against P&N.

I still don't feel like I have a good understanding of what it is that you want from P&N.