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The future of electric cars

tokie

tokie

Golden Member
The main issue with electric cars currently is for long-distance driving.

What would be the problem with installing overhead catenary wires above all interstate freeways? So that when someone enters a freeway they switch from batteries to current supplied via pantograph.

The road underneath would not need to be modified, so cost would not be astronomical.

Thoughts?
 
A better solution would be to have drop in gasoline powered electric generators that people could rent if they wanted to take a long trip.
 
tokie said:
The main issue with electric cars currently is for long-distance driving.

What would be the problem with installing overhead catenary wires above all interstate freeways? So that when someone enters a freeway they switch from batteries to current supplied via pantograph.

The road underneath would not need to be modified, so cost would not be astronomical.

Thoughts?
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huge infrastructure cost, you can't overtake other vehicles, it's not a road anymore.

Interstate and intercity bus lines would cost less.
Oh wait, don't you already have greyhounds + planes + trains in the US?
Problem solved. Just rent a car on location.
 
The immediate future is simple: don't use them for long trips
The medium term future is already in play, just not sufficiently rolled out: better range, and regular fast-charge stations. Tesla already has cars that work in this capacity and it has rolled out fast charging stations along some major highways.
Long term: too hard to say. Maybe battery capacity gets better, maybe hyrdrogen comes along (not any time soon, though, as it is basically a pipe dream)

Any huge major changes to infrastructure like inserts into roads or wires above the roads will ensure electric cars do not grow as fast as they otherwise could.

Honestly people pay WAY too much attention to long trips in these cars. If you have two cars just keep a gas or hybrid and use the electric for everything else. Most families have a "family" car anyway, so use it for the long trips. Too much focus is spent on one small, not often used, aspect of a car and applied against electrics without realizing how many positives they have.
 
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tokie said:
The main issue with electric cars currently is for long-distance driving.

What would be the problem with installing overhead catenary wires above all interstate freeways? So that when someone enters a freeway they switch from batteries to current supplied via pantograph.

The road underneath would not need to be modified, so cost would not be astronomical.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

We have a good electric car discussion thread going over in the Garage sub-forum:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2327836

Tesla has the best system right now - 20 minutes for a 100-mile charge on their Supercharger network, plus an upcoming 90-second battery swap for ~$80 a pop. They're currently working on a 5-minute charging system, although that won't be out until the technology is perfected (who knows when that will be, but at least they're working on it), and the next battery is said to be a 500-mile-range pack.

I think what would help the most is having wireless chargers installed everywhere - in your home's garage, in public city places like parking lots & libraries, and at places like the McDonald's drive-thru or traffic lights where you can get a few minutes of juice while you sit - little 5-minute shots throughout your commute to keep you topped off basically. Bosch has a wireless charging system for the Leaf out already, so it's definitely doable.

It's interesting to see the early adoption of electric cars. My buddy just picked up an all-electric Honda Fit and it's been fun to cruise around in it, charge up at public chargers for free, etc. But then you run into goofy issues, like if someone is already charging up at a station (like a restaurant) and you really need a charge. It's happened twice so far - low on battery charge, really needed some juice to get home, but the other electric car plugged in just sits there until the owner comes back. I think maybe if they made a charge light indicator that switched from red to green when it's fully charged, letting other EV owners know it's OK to disconnect the vehicle, that would be great because then you wouldn't be stuck waiting for them to come out and not wanting to touch their car 😛
 
There is no future with electric cars. Look up the history and you will quickly find that they have tried several times and failed each and every time (dating back 100 years!).

Present is NO different.

Nissan Leaf has about 60-80k BTU of power, that's about the power of 1/2-3/4 gallon of gas.

Then people wonder why they go 20-30 miles and get stuck.......

How in the world they convinced people to buy such a vehicle at such a price is beyond me.....more power to Nissan.
 
Vdubchaos said:
There is no future with electric cars. Look up the history and you will quickly find that they have tried several times and failed each and every time (dating back 100 years!).

Present is NO different.

Nissan Leaf has about 60-80k BTU of power, that's about the power of 1/2-3/4 gallon of gas.

Then people wonder why they go 20-30 miles and get stuck.......

How in the world they convinced people to buy such a vehicle at such a price is beyond me.....more power to Nissan.
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The only factor is battery capacity, and that is getting better and better by the year.
 
Murloc said:
huge infrastructure cost, you can't overtake other vehicles, it's not a road anymore.
Click to expand...

Why couldn't you overtake other cars? One overhead catenary for each lane. You can still switch lanes... Think like bumper cars but on a road.

Why would it not be a road?
 
Vdubchaos said:
There is no future with electric cars. Look up the history and you will quickly find that they have tried several times and failed each and every time (dating back 100 years!).

Present is NO different.
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http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-repays-department-energy-loan-nine-years-early

TESLA REPAYS DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY LOAN NINE YEARS EARLY

Tesla Motors announced that it has paid off the entire loan awarded to the company by the Department of Energy in 2010. In addition to payments made in 2012 and Q1 2013, today’s wire of almost half a billion dollars ($451.8M) repays the full loan facility with interest. Following this payment, Tesla will be the only American car company to have fully repaid the government.
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http://www.businessreviewusa.com/business_leaders/tesla-motors-is-revving-its-engine-for-success

Five years after the 2008 financial crisis, Tesla is valued over $12 billion dollars and rising.
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-11/tesla-model-s-sedan-output-speeds-past-400-a-week-ceo.html

Tesla Model S Sedan Output Speeds Past 400 a Week

* Base price of a Tesla Model S is $62,400, so 400 * $62,400 = $24,960,000. So roughly $25 million in revenue per week, and the waiting list is currently 2 months due to the backlog. Multiply that by 52 weeks and you get $1,297,920,000, or roughly a billion dollars in sales per year at the current rate, with the weekly output rate expected to double to 800 units per week by late 2014.
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http://www.greencarreports.com/news...-electric-cars-are-outselling-plug-in-hybrids

Sales Surprise: Battery-Electric Cars Are Outselling Plug-In Hybrids

From January through June of this year, the combination of 9,839 Nissan Leafs, 882 Mitsubishi i-MiEVs, and approximately 9,400 Tesla Model S cars (plus 1,700-odd compliance cars and others) exceeds the total of 18,335 plug-in hybrids and Chevrolet Volt range-extended electric cars.

* Tesla sold 9,400 Model S cars in the first 2 quarters; assuming a base price of $62,400 each, that's half a billion dollars in sales so far this year.
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Doesn't look too bad to me :colbert:
 
 
Eventually something will have to take over when gas runs out. Electric is the only viable option at the moment, but it isn't likely to run out for another 100 years or so. The price of gas will go up and make electric more viable in the long run... it's just a matter of time.
 
Vdubchaos said:
You are talking 1 niche brand that almost went bankrupt!!!

Niche is as far as Electric cars have ever went (this is no different).

Also Hybrids does not = electric (partly electric part combustion).
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Sure, but now Tesla is valued at $12 billion dollars and is pulling in approximately $100 million in sales per month with a huge backlog of orders. Plus, the government is mandating a certain percentage of compliance cars, so there's the ones who are going out & selling EV's on purpose (ex. Nissan Leaf) and there's the ones that are doing minimum compliance (ex. Honda Fit EV), and either way, that equals more electric cars.

It's not like the oil issues in the Middle East are going to go away, and with the lithium reserves available in Bolivia & the focus on "green" energy sources (har, har), I think 100% electric car production is only going to ramp up from here. Until they improve the technology (either lower the price of the car, increase the range, or make the charging crazy-fast), I don't think it will take off super fast, but when the 100-mile-plus batteries start coming out on the less-expensive cars, I think we'll start to see a shift.
 
Kaido said:
Sure, but now Tesla is valued at $12 billion dollars and is pulling in approximately $100 million in sales per month with a huge backlog of orders. Plus, the government is mandating a certain percentage of compliance cars, so there's the ones who are going out & selling EV's on purpose (ex. Nissan Leaf) and there's the ones that are doing minimum compliance (ex. Honda Fit EV), and either way, that equals more electric cars.

It's not like the oil issues in the Middle East are going to go away, and with the lithium reserves available in Bolivia & the focus on "green" energy sources (har, har), I think 100% electric car production is only going to ramp up from here. Until they improve the technology (either lower the price of the car, increase the range, or make the charging crazy-fast), I don't think it will take off super fast, but when the 100-mile-plus batteries start coming out on the less-expensive cars, I think we'll start to see a shift.
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Make EVERY CAR in this world electric and Oil is NOT going away. EVER

There is NO solution to Energy or alternatives.

Tesla is still niche/one off brand that will never be mainstream.
 
Vdubchaos said:
Make EVERY CAR in this world electric and Oil is NOT going away. EVER

There is NO solution to Energy or alternatives.

Tesla is still niche/one off brand that will never be mainstream.
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Your statements have too many absolutes to be taken seriously.
 
brainhulk said:
Monster solar panels
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I think though, we're really just going to trade energy embargos from the Middle East to China. Bolivia will supply the bulk of the lithium, which will get shipped to China to build the batteries, which will then be sold to America to run the "green, environmentally-friendly cars". But still, if you have a rooftop solar panel and only have to replace the batteries every 8 years or so, you can basically drive around for free after the initial purchase. So if you can get a basic electric car & solar panel kit for like $30,000 together with a 60-month loan, you'd be looking at a flat cost of $500 a month (vs. a $350 car payment plus another $300 in gas per month). But then you'd have to buy a really expensive battery at the end of the 8 years, so it'd sort of be a wash. It's definitely not very economical to do right now, at least.
 
feralkid said:
Your statements have too many absolutes to be taken seriously.
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When you consider the fact that most plastics/rubber components are all made out of oil......you will understand.

Kaido said:
I think though, we're really just going to trade energy embargos from the Middle East to China. Bolivia will supply the bulk of the lithium, which will get shipped to China to build the batteries, which will then be sold to America to run the "green, environmentally-friendly cars". But still, if you have a rooftop solar panel and only have to replace the batteries every 8 years or so, you can basically drive around for free after the initial purchase. So if you can get a basic electric car & solar panel kit for like $30,000 together with a 60-month loan, you'd be looking at a flat cost of $500 a month (vs. a $350 car payment plus another $300 in gas per month). But then you'd have to buy a really expensive battery at the end of the 8 years, so it'd sort of be a wash. It's definitely not very economical to do right now, at least.
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Bolivia?

I will tell you a little secret about Afghanistan and why we are there. Lithium. And now you see why Lithium batteries for your phone/laptops are now dirt cheap.

😉
 
The problem with EVs is not range but refuelling time. Lithium batteries are fickle. They don't like to be charged too fast. Most household outlets also don't have the voltage necessary to fast charge EV packs.

The holy grail is building an EV that can go 500km and fully recharge in under 15min IMO without degradation of the battery's lifespan. They're doing some interesting things with graphene and super capacitors on this front. Will be a few years before it's ready for consumer vehicles though.

As for wires, or wireless charging in the road, it's not going to happen. It would cost way too much for the government to implement, and private business just doesn't have interest in major infrastructure projects anymore.
 
To make me go electric they have to do 3 things for me.

1. price - right now out of my league
2. distance - sucks right now
3. reliability - I don't care if you could get these things under $10,000 and drive 1,000 miles if it breaks down all the time then 1 and 2 does not even matter.
 
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