The future direction of the new unity Israeli goverenment--we may soon know.

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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Illegally created settlements (those made without Israeli government permission), should be removed. Only fringe elements said otherwise. That bill was never going to pass into law.

Legally created settlements will continue to be built, as they should be.
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The problem with that statement cybrsage is, since Israel does not own any of the disputed territories, there is no such thing as a legal Israeli settlement.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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In terms of the city of Jerusalem, one fact over rides, 1948 Israel was given part of Jerusalem, the other part was illegally captured in the 1967 war.

And who did they capture it from, how did they acquire it, was that considered legit and lastly what nation claimed it before them?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,979
47,897
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The problem with that statement cybrsage is, since Israel does not own any of the disputed territories, there is no such thing as a legal Israeli settlement.

Of course, everyone knows that the Israeli settlements that are built in the occupied territories are illegal. No one outside of the fringe lunatics even bothers to contest their illegality anymore.

There are very few things basically every country in the world agrees upon, but one of those things is that Israeli settlements in the occupied territories are illegal. The overwhelming international consensus on this fact is pretty amazing, really.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Of course, everyone knows that the Israeli settlements that are built in the occupied territories are illegal. No one outside of the fringe lunatics even bothers to contest their illegality anymore.

There are very few things basically every country in the world agrees upon, but one of those things is that Israeli settlements in the occupied territories are illegal. The overwhelming international consensus on this fact is pretty amazing, really.

He would seem prove that the broken clock can be right just one time. The only way that this can be stopped is by Israel itself and that won't happen until the pals have one authoritative voice that explicitly rejects the Hamas charter and then shows it in more than words.
 
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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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He would seem prove that the broken clock can be right just one time. The only way that this can be stopped is by Israel itself and that won't happen until the pals have one authoritative voice that explicitly rejects the Hamas charter and then shows it in more than words.
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Ah maybe right hayabasusa, if no Israeli settlements are legal without the Palestinians inking a deal that recognizes some of those Israeli settlements as part of a peace deal, it only keeps the Israeli settlements in perpetual limbo. But thus is the failed reasoning of the Oslo accords, that a mutually negotiated settlement between Israel and the Palestinians is better.
than the alternative of third party binding arbitration.

But deny it all you want all ye Israeli fan clubbers, 99% of the world blames Israel for refusing to negotiate in good faith. And if Israeli settlement has gone beyond the point of allowing a viable Palestinian State, the only remaining solution is the forced Israeli assimilation of the Palestinian people with full voting rights.

Rational Israelis have been warning of that alternatives for decades, as the larger international community demands this Israeli Palestinian conflict solved.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,979
47,897
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I'm keen to know what site (or orifice) you got this statistic from.

If you are counting countries in the world, his number is pretty accurate. Go look at any UNSC consultations on the Arab Israeli conflict and you will see the frustration with Israel everywhere. Not just from Arab countries, but from the the West as well. The US is Israel's principal defender and even we acknowledge that Israel is engaging in illegal activity.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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Why don't you go to official United Nation site and read all UN Resolutions against Israel than were simply ignored by Israel?

There are billions of people sitting in the UN? You think that? Snicker...you are silly and make me laugh.
 

Gintaras

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2000
1,892
1
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There are billions of people sitting in the UN? You think that? Snicker...you are silly and make me laugh.

Reps in UN represent billions of people. Not all agree, but....

...US president does not represent views of all 300 millions US citizens.
As not all jews living in Israel support jewish extremists that in power....

At the end, A.Hitler did not represent all germans, but majority supported him.

So, check UN site, note countries that against Israel and do your math....Consider, what I told, but anyway, you'll get at the end - SUM= billions.....
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,981
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Why don't you go to official United Nation site and read all UN Resolutions against Israel than were simply ignored by Israel?

That proves nothing, except the UN is bias against Israel!
How many resolutions are their against Hamas or fatah or the Palestinians?

In his speech to open the 61st General Assembly of the United Nations in September 2006, then-Secretary General Kofi Anan admitted that Israel is often unfairly judged by the international body and its various organizations. “On one side, supporters of Israel feel that it is harshly judged by standards that are not applied to its enemies,” Annan said. “And too often this is true, particularly in some UN bodies.”1

Despite being the only democracy in the Middle East, Israel routinely faces more criticism and condemnation at the United Nations than any other country, including those that systematically kill their citizens or deny them the most basic of human rights. Even today, both the General Assembly and Security Council continue to pass one-sided resolutions that single out and condemn the Jewish State. Additionally, an overwhelmingly powerful bloc led by the Arab nations promotes a narrow and slanderous agenda meant to isolate Israel that has met little resistance.

Debates on Israel abound, and the Council has repeatedly condemned the Jewish State. But not once has it adopted a resolution critical of the PLO or of Arab attacks on Israel. What takes place in the Security Council “more closely resembles a mugging than either a political debate or an effort at problem-solving,” declared former UN Ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick.15

The Arab League contingent on the Council has been reinforced by members of the Organization of the Islamic Conference and “nonaligned” governments that do not recognize Israel. Since the end of 1991, leading nonaligned nations such as India and China have established diplomatic ties with Israel; the Soviet Union, which broke off relations with the Jewish State after the Six-Day War, was replaced on the panel by Russia, which has full diplomatic relations with Israel. Though it was hoped this might result in a more balanced handling of the Arab-Israeli conflict by the Security Council, that has not been the case as Russia has continued to vote consistently against Israel.

In 2003, Israel sought to gain support for a resolution of its own, the first it had introduced since 1976. The resolution called for the protection of Israeli children from terrorism, but it did not receive enough support from the members of the General Assembly to even come to a vote. Israel had introduced the resolution in response to the murder of hundreds of Israeli children in terrorist attacks, and after a similar resolution had been adopted on November 6, 2003, calling for the protection of Palestinian children from "Israeli aggression." Israel's ambassador withdrew the proposed draft after it became clear that members of the nonaligned movement were determined to revise it in such a way that it would have ultimately been critical of Israel.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/israel_un.html -- real good read!!
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
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Reps in UN represent billions of people. Not all agree, but....

...US president does not represent views of all 300 millions US citizens.
As not all jews living in Israel support jewish extremists that in power....

At the end, A.Hitler did not represent all germans, but majority supported him.

So, check UN site, note countries that against Israel and do your math....Consider, what I told, but anyway, you'll get at the end - SUM= billions.....

LL cited number of people and 99%, not the UN. Further, while there are UN resolutions, that does not change the fact that the Hamas charter endorses the elimination of Jews. There are those who do not want to make peace with the pals, but others might, but not with those who want to murder them as a point of principle. I think many of the almost 7 billion LL says is against Israel would get that.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
If you are counting countries in the world, his number is pretty accurate. Go look at any UNSC consultations on the Arab Israeli conflict and you will see the frustration with Israel everywhere. Not just from Arab countries, but from the the West as well. The US is Israel's principal defender and even we acknowledge that Israel is engaging in illegal activity.

I know that but LL doesn't limit himself to real world concerns. Not many are happy with Israel, but most get the problems with the Pal side too, and he was speaking of negotiations in good faith. Abbas can't even get his own people to not screw with him. How can he speak authoritatively for the pals? He can't and I feel sorry for him.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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I know that but LL doesn't limit himself to real world concerns. Not many are happy with Israel, but most get the problems with the Pal side too, and he was speaking of negotiations in good faith. Abbas can't even get his own people to not screw with him. How can he speak authoritatively for the pals? He can't and I feel sorry for him.

That division among the pals is largely an artifice of Israel. They sponsored the elections that brought Hamas to power, then sided with Fatah to take over the West Bank, leave Hamas in control of Gaza.

If nobody can speak authoritatively for all the Pals, it's because Israel wants it that way, made it that way to suit their own purposes, something you seem able to ignore completely.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
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That division among the pals is largely an artifice of Israel. They sponsored the elections that brought Hamas to power, then sided with Fatah to take over the West Bank, leave Hamas in control of Gaza.

If nobody can speak authoritatively for all the Pals, it's because Israel wants it that way, made it that way to suit their own purposes, something you seem able to ignore completely.

Why stop at that point? Why ignore completely the reasons why _Israel_ did that?

And let's not forget to mention, if Palestine were a unified people, Israel would not be able to mess with them. You say Israel messed with Palestine to suit their own purposes, therefore Palestine was never unified to begin with.
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,981
3,318
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That division among the pals is largely an artifice of Israel. They sponsored the elections that brought Hamas to power, then sided with Fatah to take over the West Bank, leave Hamas in control of Gaza.

If nobody can speak authoritatively for all the Pals, it's because Israel wants it that way, made it that way to suit their own purposes, something you seem able to ignore completely.

hahahahaha...now it`s Israels fault that the Palestinians are their own worse enemy......thats way too funny...

With that point of view you just lost all credibility and there is no reason to try to reason with somebody like you. No matter whose fault it is all the fault points to Israel..lolol......
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
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Why don't you go to official United Nation site and read all UN Resolutions against Israel than were simply ignored by Israel?

while you are at it; also read all the treaties and truces related to Israel that have been broken by the Arabs and Palestinians.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
That division among the pals is largely an artifice of Israel. They sponsored the elections that brought Hamas to power, then sided with Fatah to take over the West Bank, leave Hamas in control of Gaza.

If nobody can speak authoritatively for all the Pals, it's because Israel wants it that way, made it that way to suit their own purposes, something you seem able to ignore completely.

Arafat could not even speak authoritatively for the Palestinians.
and he could not even speak without it being a forked tongue.

If he could not get 100% of what he wanted, it was war. And the Palestinians lost again.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Why stop at that point? Why ignore completely the reasons why _Israel_ did that?

And let's not forget to mention, if Palestine were a unified people, Israel would not be able to mess with them. You say Israel messed with Palestine to suit their own purposes, therefore Palestine was never unified to begin with.

The Palestinians have always been puppets of the Arab world.
When they had a chance to become a state; the Arabs refused to allow it.
They have been manipulated by the Arabs since day 0 and continue to be.

You have Hamas #1, Hamas #2, Fatah #1, Fatah #2 and a complete list of others. The first 4 tolerate the others politically because it releases the pressure cooker.
Even in note that Hamas #1 has an opposing faction within itself as to the direction it should go; the same with Fatah.

There is no Palestinian government at present; there have been no elections as previously scheduled; you have a group of disorganized people that are dis-satisfied with their lives and want the streets of gold as a result.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
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Reps in UN represent billions of people. Not all agree, but....

...US president does not represent views of all 300 millions US citizens.
As not all jews living in Israel support jewish extremists that in power....

At the end, A.Hitler did not represent all germans, but majority supported him.

So, check UN site, note countries that against Israel and do your math....Consider, what I told, but anyway, you'll get at the end - SUM= billions.....

The claim was not a handful of people...it was billions. I doubt even hundreds of millions believe what he claimed they believe. Most people simply are too poor to care and those who are not have more important things to think about.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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Why stop at that point? Why ignore completely the reasons why _Israel_ did that?

I figure it was so they could promulgate the talking point Hayabusa Rider echoed above, use it as just another excuse to hold the course of ongoing settlement & sham negotiating tactics they set long ago.

The Netanyahu govt has no intention of making any deal with the pals, as can be seen from their non-negotiating stance of "no preconditions". They simply disavow everything that's come before- Camp David, Oslo, all previous offers & informal understandings of the last 30 years, propose that the Pals renegotiate everything, every square millimeter, probably for another 30 years...

Meanwhile, settlement continues, and manipulation of public opinion in this country remains highly successful.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
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The Pals already showed that if Israel stops building they will still refuse to negotiate. Why should Isreal expect them to be honest this time?