The Four Two is proof that some people are plain old stupid.

[DivideBYZero]

Are you serious? You drive a Miata. The ForTwo is way safer, and I've had a Miata that my Ex-wife drove into a tree driver door first, with no injuries whatsoever.

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Are you serious? You drive a Miata. The ForTwo is way safer, and I've had a Miata that my Ex-wife drove into a tree driver door first, with no injuries whatsoever.

Why bring a Miata into this? I didn't say it was safer...

Obviously crash standards 15 years ago weren't as strict as they are today, but as much reinforcement and subsequently wegiht they added to this little car, I'd expect it to do better in the test than it did.

 

[Apex]

These cars are awesome for the single guy. You get more attention in them than you do in an exotic.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: mariok2006

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Are you serious? You drive a Miata. The ForTwo is way safer, and I've had a Miata that my Ex-wife drove into a tree driver door first, with no injuries whatsoever.

Why bring a Miata into this? I didn't say it was safer...

Obviously crash standards 15 years ago weren't as strict as they are today, but as much reinforcement and subsequently wegiht they added to this little car, I'd expect it to do better in the test than it did.

lol!

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I've seen one in the US so far. My reaction was great, I can buy one of those and get 40+ mpg easily and they probably are cheap as hell.

well, now I know that they are just plain stupid.

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: andylawcc
It's a fashion statement.

and, it's also like comparing the $499 Celeron equipped, 7 inch monitor-ed Asus EEE vs a low end Dell, with twice the processing power and viewing estate.

I don't find that a valid comparison. The EeePC is smaller and lighter. And it's purposed as an internet browser essentially. That low end dell is bulky as hell. There are trade offs and each have their market.

But if this car only gets 32mpg... that's ridiculous. Unless that is 32mpg city.. that might be better.

 

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: randomlinh

Originally posted by: andylawcc
It's a fashion statement.

and, it's also like comparing the $499 Celeron equipped, 7 inch monitor-ed Asus EEE vs a low end Dell, with twice the processing power and viewing estate.

I don't find that a valid comparison. The EeePC is smaller and lighter. And it's purposed as an internet browser essentially. That low end dell is bulky as hell. There are trade offs and each have their market.

But if this car only gets 32mpg... that's ridiculous. Unless that is 32mpg city.. that might be better.

C&D reports their overall average, including test track thrashing. I'm sure if they babied it they'd get much better mileage but the point is that the car gets disappointing mileage either way, considering how small and slow it is (and it requires premium fuel).

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: SearchMaster

Originally posted by: randomlinh

Originally posted by: andylawcc
It's a fashion statement.

and, it's also like comparing the $499 Celeron equipped, 7 inch monitor-ed Asus EEE vs a low end Dell, with twice the processing power and viewing estate.

I don't find that a valid comparison. The EeePC is smaller and lighter. And it's purposed as an internet browser essentially. That low end dell is bulky as hell. There are trade offs and each have their market.

But if this car only gets 32mpg... that's ridiculous. Unless that is 32mpg city.. that might be better.

C&D reports their overall average, including test track thrashing. I'm sure if they babied it they'd get much better mileage but the point is that the car gets disappointing mileage either way, considering how small and slow it is (and it requires premium fuel).

C&D also tested the Corolla in the same issue, which got 28MPG and only cost about $1000 more, and was much faster and much roomier.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: SearchMaster

Originally posted by: randomlinh

Originally posted by: andylawcc
It's a fashion statement.

and, it's also like comparing the $499 Celeron equipped, 7 inch monitor-ed Asus EEE vs a low end Dell, with twice the processing power and viewing estate.

I don't find that a valid comparison. The EeePC is smaller and lighter. And it's purposed as an internet browser essentially. That low end dell is bulky as hell. There are trade offs and each have their market.

But if this car only gets 32mpg... that's ridiculous. Unless that is 32mpg city.. that might be better.

C&D reports their overall average, including test track thrashing. I'm sure if they babied it they'd get much better mileage but the point is that the car gets disappointing mileage either way, considering how small and slow it is (and it requires premium fuel).

C&D also tested the Corolla in the same issue, which got 28MPG and only cost about $1000 more, and was much faster and much roomier.

Don't forget warranty. As best I can tell, the smart comes standard with a whopping 2 year/24k warranty.

 

[alimoalem]

The Smart Fortwo has its place in Europe, but definitely not here. I've seen them in France and Italy (only two European countries I've been to...does the Vatican count? 😛) and it definitely looked practical in Italy. In the US, I'd say no.

For those hating on the Fortwo, I don't think you've seen the Forfour. That is one crap car. They have them in Europe...I haven't seen them here. Think of it as a Fortwo with like an extra 3 feet of length to accommodate two more passengers. It's pretty much almost the size of a sub-compact, looks awkward, and probably uses the same engine.

One thing about the Fortwo; I think the top speed for the US version is something like 90mph but I was cruising alongside one in France at a constant 160-165 km/hr for like 10 minutes. Maybe they have a faster Smart?

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

C&D also tested the Corolla in the same issue, which got 28MPG and only cost about $1000 more, and was much faster and much roomier.

And the Honda Fit with even more MPG.

 

[Throckmorton]

These seem pretty cool. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Roadster

You can get it with a 215hp V6 biturbo.

 

[Slew Foot]

If you have to tell someone youre smart, you probably arent

 

[Gillbot]

Personally I think this whole Hybrid and "smart" car epidemic is a trend targeted to yuppies with more money than brains.

My old Ford Aspire got 40+MPG on the highway and better than 35 MPG in the city from it's tiny 1.3L 4 cyl and it was a $1200 used car. There is no need to spend $30+K on a hybrid or smart car to save gas.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Gillbot
Personally I think this whole Hybrid and "smart" car epidemic is a trend targeted to yuppies with more money than brains.

My old Ford Aspire got 40+MPG on the highway and better than 35 MPG in the city from it's tiny 1.3L 4 cyl and it was a $1200 used car. There is no need to spend $30+K on a hybrid or smart car to save gas.

the prius fits 4 adults and luggage. the only way you're getting 4 adults and luggage in an aspire is if its used as a clown car

 

[agibby5]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Yeah, the European version is great. 50MPH gas, 70MPG diesel. In the US the Mercedes engines couldn't pass emissions so they put a Mitsubishi engine in, and it's gas mileage is good, but not great.

why cant we have this in the USA? if the car is producing more MPG, wouldnt that be better for emissions?

 

[chuckywang]

Originally posted by: agibby5

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Yeah, the European version is great. 50MPH gas, 70MPG diesel. In the US the Mercedes engines couldn't pass emissions so they put a Mitsubishi engine in, and it's gas mileage is good, but not great.

why cant we have this in the USA? if the car is producing more MPG, wouldnt that be better for emissions?

The US and Europe use different standards to calculate MPG. And the European numbers probably use imperial gallons anyways. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Also, the EPA changed the way you calculate MPG this year, so all cars this year will have "lower" MPG.

That said, I still would have expected more MPG from the fortwo.

 

[agibby5]

Originally posted by: chuckywang

Originally posted by: agibby5

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Yeah, the European version is great. 50MPH gas, 70MPG diesel. In the US the Mercedes engines couldn't pass emissions so they put a Mitsubishi engine in, and it's gas mileage is good, but not great.

why cant we have this in the USA? if the car is producing more MPG, wouldnt that be better for emissions?

The US and Europe use different standards to calculate MPG. And the European numbers probably use imperial gallons anyways. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Also, the EPA changed the way you calculate MPG this year, so all cars this year will have "lower" MPG.

That said, I still would have expected more MPG from the fortwo.

I still don't understand. I'm not talking about how the calculation of MPG is determined. I'm asking about why this type of high MPG engine won't see the light of day in the USA?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: agibby5
I still don't understand. I'm not talking about how the calculation of MPG is determined. I'm asking about why this type of high MPG engine won't see the light of day in the USA?

can't pass US emissions. though whether we have a tough enough reg that the decrease in MPG doesn't lead to an increase in emissions per mile, i don't know.

 

[agibby5]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: agibby5
I still don't understand. I'm not talking about how the calculation of MPG is determined. I'm asking about why this type of high MPG engine won't see the light of day in the USA?

can't pass US emissions. though whether we have a tough enough reg that the decrease in MPG doesn't lead to an increase in emissions per mile, i don't know.

I guess that's the point I was getting to... if a car produced a great deal more MPG, wouldnt the amount of emissions be relative? Thus, I'd be curious to see if the lower MPG cars produce more emissions overall than a higher MPG diesel vehicle... Although, I could just be a bit confused 🙁

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: agibby5

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: agibby5
I still don't understand. I'm not talking about how the calculation of MPG is determined. I'm asking about why this type of high MPG engine won't see the light of day in the USA?

can't pass US emissions. though whether we have a tough enough reg that the decrease in MPG doesn't lead to an increase in emissions per mile, i don't know.

I guess that's the point I was getting to... if a car produced a great deal more MPG, wouldnt the amount of emissions be relative? Thus, I'd be curious to see if the lower MPG cars produce more emissions overall than a higher MPG diesel vehicle... Although, I could just be a bit confused 🙁

<tin foil hat>

Emissions are one way that domestic manf. can keep remain remotely competive with the competition since they can't match them engine wise.

Also the government isn't all that anxious to ease up on the emissions because the lower MPG helps bring in revenue from CAFE fines.

</tin foil hat>

Do I really believe this? Not really, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there was some lobbying being done for similar reason.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: vi edit
<tin foil hat>

Emissions are one way that domestic manf. can keep remain remotely competive with the competition since they can't match them engine wise.

Also the government isn't all that anxious to ease up on the emissions because the lower MPG helps bring in revenue from CAFE fines.

</tin foil hat>

Do I really believe this? Not really, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there was some lobbying being done for similar reason.

US and Japanese manufacturers have never paid CAFE fines, however European companies, including ironically enough, VW, do on a regular basis. The key difference is that the US has cared little about MPG and cared more about the qualities of the air coming out of the pipe, such as unburned hydrocarbons, and CO vs. CO2 whereas the focus in Europe is high MPGs and is partially fueled by $3-4/gallon taxes.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: vi edit
<tin foil hat>

Emissions are one way that domestic manf. can keep remain remotely competive with the competition since they can't match them engine wise.

Also the government isn't all that anxious to ease up on the emissions because the lower MPG helps bring in revenue from CAFE fines.

</tin foil hat>

Do I really believe this? Not really, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there was some lobbying being done for similar reason.

US and Japanese manufacturers have never paid CAFE fines, however European companies, including ironically enough, VW, do on a regular basis. The key difference is that the US has cared little about MPG and cared more about the qualities of the air coming out of the pipe, such as unburned hydrocarbons, and CO vs. CO2 whereas the focus in Europe is high MPGs and is partially fueled by $3-4/gallon taxes.

Wow. I guess I've just read a bunch of saber ratteling and general whining from domestic makers then about "CAFE this and CAFE that end of the world blah blah blah".

I found this document:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/portal/nh...20Files/CAFE_Fines.pdf


Chrysler has a 30 million tab.

😱

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: vi edit
Wow. I guess I've just read a bunch of saber ratteling and general whining from domestic makers then about "CAFE this and CAFE that end of the world blah blah blah".

I found this document:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/portal/nh...20Files/CAFE_Fines.pdf


Chrysler has a 30 million tab.

😱

That's from when they were owned by Mercedes Benz. Notice that MB always had a fat bill?

...now, I'll admit to fault on Panoz, even though they are a small volume manufacturer. But yes, domestics will have a major problem with CAFE. Makes like BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, and MB can easily tack a few grand onto an MSRP because they are already high. Ford would have a much larger problem doing so on the Mustang.

 

[geokilla]

Originally posted by: agibby5

Originally posted by: chuckywang

Originally posted by: agibby5

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Yeah, the European version is great. 50MPH gas, 70MPG diesel. In the US the Mercedes engines couldn't pass emissions so they put a Mitsubishi engine in, and it's gas mileage is good, but not great.

why cant we have this in the USA? if the car is producing more MPG, wouldnt that be better for emissions?

The US and Europe use different standards to calculate MPG. And the European numbers probably use imperial gallons anyways. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Also, the EPA changed the way you calculate MPG this year, so all cars this year will have "lower" MPG.

That said, I still would have expected more MPG from the fortwo.

I still don't understand. I'm not talking about how the calculation of MPG is determined. I'm asking about why this type of high MPG engine won't see the light of day in the USA?

Not meaning to get personal or anything, but for one, like what ElFenix said, it probably can't pass US diesel emissions which are more strict than the European one. The next one is that few Americans would buy cars with little power or that are small in size. They just love their SUVs way too much and only recently have they started making the switch to smaller cars.

Look at the Japanese K cars. I believe they are very popular in Japan, otherwise Japanese manufacturers would have stopped production a long time ago. But instead, I heard that more and more K cars are being released by manufacturers.

Once again, I don't mean to get personal and attack Americans. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.