The Food Pyramid that you're taught in schools...

[Doppel]

This guy says it's wrong:

http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Get-Fat.../dp/0307272702

As to, of course, many others. I read that book. I've been into diet and exercise for a long time and although I've not looked at some of his references are forced to conclude that in many areas he's right. He blames much of the obesity epidemic--basically all, actually--on carbohydrates.

Our diets in Western culture are an abomination. It's not as far as I'm concerned just the carbs but the high glycemic of them. They totally blast our insulin and blood sugar levels around like a roller coaster all damn day long.

If I have a meal full of carbs that have a similar ratio to the food pyramid, I crash and feel crappy afterwards.

Yep. I cannot count how many times this has happened to me. In fact, if I have a real splurge at night with ice cream, cookies, etc. the next morning I feel f**king awful, almost like I've been drinking alcohol, with a headache and a general feeling of awfulness.

Whenever I cut calories a good bit for days on end I feel hungry but I also feel absolutely jacked up like i'm running on speed (but in a good way; just feel youthful and vigorous). I don't know if it's because of the lower carbs overall or just that my body is no longer spending so much of its resources digesting the crap I took in.

Unfortunately I'm a westerner and love my carbs, it's a damn hard habit to kick.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I'm just responding to what you wrote. You said that glycogen stores were repleted by fat, not me. You said glycogen stores were repleted by protein, not me. And you did not have any mention of fruit or vegetables, or legumes, or dairy products. If you don't write it down, how am I supposed to tell what you mean? I'm not a mind reader.

Also, I never said, or implied, that there was a lack of carbohydrate in a 'typical' diet - whatever that is.

*sigh*

What I wrote:

"The body creates glucose from proteins, fats, and carbohydrates, and that glucose gets turned into glycogen as another form of energy storage in addition to fat. Carbohydrates are the primary source of glucose."

The body creates glucose from protein - true
And from fat - true
And from carbs - true

Where did I say the relative amounts of glucose created for each? Oh wait, then I said that carbs are the *primary* source. Then you went on to argue that protein and fat are not good sources of glucose. You basically argued the same thing, just the other side of the coin.

I'm running under the assumption that most people understand carbs aren't only found in grains. Where else are carbs found? Did I mention specifically carbs are only found in grains? Fruits, veggies, legumes, etc all have carbs, all contribute to glucose production.

A typical diet? Look at the thread title! The Food Pyramid. That's what this topic is about, right?

6-11 servings of grain
3-5 of veggies
2-4 of fruit
2-3 of meats
2-3 of dairy

We currently have more than enough grains so excess glucose gets turned into fat after are glycogen stores are full.

Most everyone here is saying it should be more like

5-8 of veggies
4-7 of meats
2-4 of fruit
2-3 of dairy
2-3 of grains

We get more than enough carbs and glucose from the veggies and fruit. Protein and fats from meats and dairy. And grains are largely unneeded.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

This guy says it's wrong:

http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Get-Fat.../dp/0307272702

As to, of course, many others. I read that book. I've been into diet and exercise for a long time and although I've not looked at some of his references are forced to conclude that in many areas he's right. He blames much of the obesity epidemic--basically all, actually--on carbohydrates.

Our diets in Western culture are an abomination. It's not as far as I'm concerned just the carbs but the high glycemic of them. They totally blast our insulin and blood sugar levels around like a roller coaster all damn day long.Yep. I cannot count how many times this has happened to me. In fact, if I have a real splurge at night with ice cream, cookies, etc. the next morning I feel f**king awful, almost like I've been drinking alcohol, with a headache and a general feeling of awfulness.

Whenever I cut calories a good bit for days on end I feel hungry but I also feel absolutely jacked up like i'm running on speed (but in a good way; just feel youthful and vigorous). I don't know if it's because of the lower carbs overall or just that my body is no longer spending so much of its resources digesting the crap I took in.

Unfortunately I'm a westerner and love my carbs, it's a damn hard habit to kick.

As for the high glycemia of our carbs, even whole grains seems to have a high glycemic index... whole grains can still cause me to crash.

 

[Zargon]

This guy says it's wrong:

http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Get-Fat.../dp/0307272702

As to, of course, many others. I read that book. I've been into diet and exercise for a long time and although I've not looked at some of his references are forced to conclude that in many areas he's right. He blames much of the obesity epidemic--basically all, actually--on carbohydrates.

I have his first book, good calories, bad calories, but I've cherry picked it because its a HUGE READ.

I have heard this one is much more 'reader friendly'

I couldnt get my mom to read it for shit, which is too bad. she gave me her horrid chlosterol and feeds my dad full grains(prostrate cancer survivor).

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

*sigh*

What I wrote:

"The body creates glucose from proteins, fats, and carbohydrates, and that glucose gets turned into glycogen as another form of energy storage in addition to fat. Carbohydrates are the primary source of glucose."

The body creates glucose from protein - true
And from fat - true
And from carbs - true

Where did I say the relative amounts of glucose created for each? Oh wait, then I said that carbs are the *primary* source. Then you went on to argue that protein and fat are not good sources of glucose. You basically argued the same thing, just the other side of the coin.

You can't get any glucose from protein. I have posted why I think this is so. If you want to disagree, then construct a proper argument for it.

As for the other, again, I can only respond to what you say. Glycogen mostly comes from carbohydrate, yet you're restricting carbohydrate intake?

A typical diet? Look at the thread title! The Food Pyramid. That's what this topic is about, right?

6-11 servings of grain
3-5 of veggies
2-4 of fruit
2-3 of meats
2-3 of dairy

We currently have more than enough grains so excess glucose gets turned into fat after are glycogen stores are full.

Most everyone here is saying it should be more like

5-8 of veggies
4-7 of meats
2-4 of fruit
2-3 of dairy
2-3 of grains

We get more than enough carbs and glucose from the veggies and fruit. Protein and fats from meats and dairy. And grains are largely unneeded.

All I can say to this is that you never specified. Sorry.

However, one thing I take issue with...

"We currently have more than enough grains so excess glucose gets turned into fat after are glycogen stores are full."

I disagree. Excess glucose is preferentially turned into glycogen. There is no real upper limit to the liver's and somatic tissues' ability to store glycogen - case in point is exemplified by von Gierke's disease (glucose-6-phosphatase deficiency). Patients have huge livers because of the buildup of glycogen, and they're extremely prone to hypoglycemia, but the liver suffers no effects of hepatotoxicity or downregulation of glycogenesis.

Moreover, while insulin does inhibit lipolysis and stimulates lipogenesis in response to hyperglycaemia, it also stimulates uptake and preferential metabolism of glucose, as well as stimulation of glycogenesis. The way that the body deals with excess glucose is to either metabolize it or turn it into glycogen; and for what it's worth I think this makes sense. Several tissues (like the brain and kidneys, and erythrocytes, who have no mitochondria) preferentially metabolize only glucose; it's far too precious a commodity to store as fat, which as I said before cannot be turned back into glucose in any significant quantity. It's hard to find numbers to quantify this, but Wikipedia estimates that 90% of all ingested glucose is turned into muscle glycogen (though unsurprisingly, there is no citation for this).