The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on U.S. Taxpayers

[Humpy]

And yes, B2B sales would be taxed just the same. Companies pay a flat rate based on sales. They can choose to pass that rate on to the customer or eat it, who care either way.

Raw materials, subcontracted assemblies, packaging and the final product would each be taxed along the way? Or do you mean some B2B sales would be taxed and not others?

 

[Xcobra]

From immigration policy to tax policy... da fuq?

 

[michal1980]

That's a false dilemma. If granted citizenship and allowed employment, the vast majority of these 'illegals' would not require government support.

But I was referring to your comments in favor of government abuse of power as long as it served your agenda. That's not small government no matter how fiscally conservative you are.

wait I thought all of these illegals are already hard working? What is granting them employment going to change?

Making these workers legal would make America poorer. As they would now be allowed even greater access to welfare. Its a fantasy these hard working illegals will be magically making family supporting wages just because they are legal.

 

[Humpy]

From immigration policy to tax policy... da fuq?

The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on U.S. Taxpayers.

 

[schmuckley]

Most of the illegals are already employed.
It's the "natural born" Americans that can't find a job.
Simple math: Deport 11 million illegals,jobless in America number goes down to 14 million;as a bonus,teenage unemployment also goes down drastically.

 

[ivwshane]

You will note that EVERYONE went down.... Every... single... bracket... Especially the lowest bracket went down to paying jack shit.

So you don't have dick on the top 1% when everyone else went down just as much.

We must be looking at a different chart because that's not what I see.

 

[boomerang]

From immigration policy to tax policy... da fuq?

It's the, when your back is against the wall divert, policy in action.

 

[Darwin333]

I still say we use illegal immigrants to patrol the border. Give them a decent pay and all and make them patrol a small section of the border. If anyone crosses illegally in their area during their shift, the person that got in gets to stay and the person who was supposed to be guarding gets kicked out without the ability to return.

That would completely stem the flow of illegals into the country and make tax payers out of at least a portion of the rest of them. The other option is to build a wall, a wall which they will build anyway and probably be paid under the table.

Maybe we could deepen the river and get a bunch of the crocs in Florida and put them in the river?

 

[Darwin333]

wait I thought all of these illegals are already hard working? What is granting them employment going to change?

Making these workers legal would make America poorer. As they would now be allowed even greater access to welfare. Its a fantasy these hard working illegals will be magically making family supporting wages just because they are legal.

I assume that they are already making family supporting wages, at least opposed to what they would make in Mexico, but that doesn't prohibit them from gaming the system like normal Americans do I guess...

 

[Darwin333]

I say we do both. Imagine the cost of jailing and/or heavily fining employers that have illegals working under the table? You've got to find those employers and then prove what it is they're doing. Well, at least in the case of jail time. The IRS has no problems assessing fines, freezing bank accounts and seizing assets without a burden of proof. They're the enforcement arm of the current regime so I suspect they'd be in charge of the fines. A two pronged approach would be best. Make it totally unpalatable to all parties involved.

Jailing "employers"??? Ha, that's kinda funny. Most employers of illegals, even relatively small businesses, are at the very least the 1% of their communities. It's almost as hard for them to go to jail as it is for cops.

Fining the ever loving shit out of them is where its at. It's the business world, why do they hire illegals? It's profitable. Make it very unprofitable to hire them and the problem solves itself.

OTOH, now we have 18M people or so in the US that are truly hungry and have very little access to social safety nets. Hungry people do very desperate things that don't jive with the society that we have come to enjoy.

 

[soulcougher73]

If someone is born in the US, even to illegal parents, they are US citizens. Sure, we could deport their parents and hope they take the kid, but we would be obligated to give care for him in the event the parents can't or won't take them back to their native country.

This idea that we "just deport all of them!" gets muddled when children come into play.

Easy fix. Get rid type anchor baby laws. 2 illegals make an illegal

 

[OBLAMA2009]

The cost of mass deportations is huge at $135 Billion dollars.

Obama Official Admitted It’s Cheaper to Deport Illegals Than to Let Them Stay

The annual cost of keeping them here is $113 Billion. Wait, that's almost as much as the cost of deporting them? Why are we allowing them to stay?

http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-u-s-taxpayers
It's a no-brainer. Deportation is the only avenue that makes sense. Unfortunately, the majority of that burden is at the state and local level, so the people that have the power to change policy have no incentive to do so. What do we need to do to change their thinking? Oh, votes. I forgot about that - again. I guess we'll just have to shoulder an ever increasing burden until we can no longer support it.

Trickle-Up Poverty

"We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America."

what that doesnt take into account is the benefit of the cheap labor to employers and people hiring them, they clean my yard for $1000 twice a year, thats more than half what i would pay a legal gardener. demos and repubes both know that having illegals here is a net positive which is why neither party is trying to deport them

 

[First]

Somebody failed Econ 101. It's already well established that "illegals!" are a net economic benefit to the economy, we've had this discussiona a million times. Your spending is my income, your income is my spending. Even low skilled immigrants contribute billions to economic growth, you can't pretend away their domestic spending, sales tax revenue and small businesses. This creates millions of jobs. Deporting them is not only more expensive than the administrative $135B (no doubt a made-up #), but it's morally asinine; you look like crazy Uncle Bob at Thanksgiving railing against seat belts and the Jews just because people came here to work for a better life. At some point you gotta give up the ghost, you lost the multiculturalism war.

 

[WackyDan]

But they were not receive any federal assistance like Food stamp or medicare and all that. And now they will, that does not make any difference?

Have news for you... They already do. Every child born to an illegal here in the U.S. is signed up for Medicaid before they even leave the hospital. They can also sign up for other assistance in that child's name as the legal guardian. The social network in the U.S. doesn't give one shit whether the guardian is a citizen or not.

So yes indeed, illegals here do benefit from taxpayers and welfare in the name of their anchor babies. It is a nice loophole eh?

 

[WackyDan]

what that doesnt take into account is the benefit of the cheap labor to employers and people hiring them, they clean my yard for $1000 twice a year, thats more than half what i would pay a legal gardener. demos and repubes both know that having illegals here is a net positive which is why neither party is trying to deport them

There it is though. They depress real wages because they will work cheaper or without complaint.

Those that are bitching about the minimum wage being not enough or not increasing with the times should look at illegals and the wages they depress.

For example... One only has to look at the Swift Raids to understand the wage issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_raids

http://cis.org/2006SwiftRaids

CLIFFS... Meat packing plants raided and workers deported. Company fined. Ended up having to hire legal immigrants and locals to fill the now empty positions and had to pay more per hour to do so legally and attract workers.

 

[TreVader]

Have news for you... They already do. Every child born to an illegal here in the U.S. is signed up for Medicaid before they even leave the hospital. They can also sign up for other assistance in that child's name as the legal guardian. The social network in the U.S. doesn't give one shit whether the guardian is a citizen or not.



So yes indeed, illegals here do benefit from taxpayers and welfare in the name of their anchor babies. It is a nice loophole eh?

When you say "anchor baby" you are talking about a US citizen with all the rights that you have right now, more if you're a felon. Not only that, but that child had no say in deciding what kind of circumstances surround it's birth. Why shouldn't it's parent receive aid if the aid is meant for the baby? Is the baby going to spend the aid on its own?


You conservatives are totally fine denigrating and devaluing a US citizen, a baby even, as long as it fits your bullshit narrative of "illegals come here for our services".

Fact is, these immigrants are more likely than not twice as hard working as you or your lazy parents. And that "anchor baby" is just as much a citizen as you or me.

 

[fskimospy]

Easy fix. Get rid type anchor baby laws. 2 illegals make an illegal

You mean "get rid of the 14th amendment".

No thanks. I like that one.

 

[feralkid]

It's a no-brainer. Deportation is the only avenue that makes sense.

That's true; if you think deportation is the only avenue that makes sense, then you obviously have no brain.

 

[Smoblikat]

You know, if we converted the income tax to a sales tax, nobody would be able to avoid it. Illegals would be much less of a tax burden and rich people would be paying "their share".

Never thought about it like that, but thats actually a fantastic idea. Instead of stealing the money that I worked hard for, just charge me extra when i try to stimulate the economy. Either way getting taxed is BS, but at least a sales tax makes sense, the income tax is the dumbest thing ive ever heard.

 

[smackababy]

Raw materials, subcontracted assemblies, packaging and the final product would each be taxed along the way? Or do you mean some B2B sales would be taxed and not others?

All sales, goods and services, would be taxed. If raw material mining company sold x dollars in goods and services, they pay y% of that amount in taxes. Now, it is likely their prices increase by y%, because why would you take a hit?

If you think rich people are just going to be like "ha! I will buy from my friend's business and not pay any taxes! HERP DERP", it is already built in. If your friend is willing to give you a discount of the amount taxed, fine, but they are idiot.

I suppose, if you want to be a real stickler about it, we could use a VAT style tax and have them subtract the taxes already paid in each service / value added step before finished product.

 

[fskimospy]

Never thought about it like that, but thats actually a fantastic idea. Instead of stealing the money that I worked hard for, just charge me extra when i try to stimulate the economy. Either way getting taxed is BS, but at least a sales tax makes sense, the income tax is the dumbest thing ive ever heard.

Just so you know that means about a 30% sales tax on everything you buy, including many things you don't think of now such as rent on an apartment, the sale of a home, etc.

How fantastic do you think it is now?

 

[fskimospy]

All sales, goods and services, would be taxed. If raw material mining company sold x dollars in goods and services, they pay y% of that amount in taxes. Now, it is likely their prices increase by y%, because why would you take a hit?

If you think rich people are just going to be like "ha! I will buy from my friend's business and not pay any taxes! HERP DERP", it is already built in. If your friend is willing to give you a discount of the amount taxed, fine, but they are idiot.

I suppose, if you want to be a real stickler about it, we could use a VAT style tax and have them subtract the taxes already paid in each service / value added step before finished product.

Just an FYI, lots of people can and do avoid sales taxes, VAT, etc.

As an easy example, Eric garner was strangled for doing what amounts to sales tax avoidance.

 

[Humpy]

All sales, goods and services, would be taxed. If raw material mining company sold x dollars in goods and services, they pay y% of that amount in taxes. Now, it is likely their prices increase by y%, because why would you take a hit?

If you think rich people are just going to be like "ha! I will buy from my friend's business and not pay any taxes! HERP DERP", it is already built in. If your friend is willing to give you a discount of the amount taxed, fine, but they are idiot.

I suppose, if you want to be a real stickler about it, we could use a VAT style tax and have them subtract the taxes already paid in each service / value added step before finished product.

I've seen various descriptions of how it would work and estimated total sales tax rates of 25% to 40% to make it revenue neutral. Having all of a final product's inputs taxed along the way seems like it would mitigate potential cheating. The consumer would be paying tax on a tax on a tax but the overall rate could be lower to compensate.

I wonder what effect the increased total cost would have on demand, how consumer cycles/preferences would cause swings in the tax rates, effect on economic stability, etc.

I sort of like the idea. All I really know is the current system is far too complicated.

 

[Zaap]

CLIFFS... Meat packing plants raided and workers deported. Company fined. Ended up having to hire legal immigrants and locals to fill the now empty positions and had to pay more per hour to do so legally and attract workers.

Just another job Americans won't do...


... for peanuts.

http://cis.org/node/1577

Beginning in the 1960s, the industry was transformed by a series of cost-cutting measures. Plants were moved from unionized urban areas to rural locations. Skilled butchers were replaced by less skilled workers who made the same repetitive cuts thousands of times a day on what became known as the disassembly line. The industry also relied increasingly on a workforce of illegal immigrants who came mostly from Mexico, but also from Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras.

Thus transformed, the industry employs a workforce whose standard of living has suffered severely. In 1960, meatpacking workers earned 15 percent more than the average manufacturing wage in the U.S.. By 2002, they were earning 25 percent less than the average in manufacturing. Government data also show that between 1980 and 2007 real wages in the industry, adjusted for inflation, dropped by a staggering 45 percent.

But the same people cheering this on, then turn around and whine about outsourcing and depressed wages as if they really gave a flying shit about either. So long as they are transforming the US into one big plantation and giving entire industries a cheap way out of paying citizens a fair wage, they couldn't give a flying shit what the effects are.

Heck, as we've learned from this thread, having an entire industry (one of many) drop wages by nearly half to support their slave trade is a net positive!

 

[Zaap]

All sales, goods and services, would be taxed.

LOL.

I love these "Let's set up the ultimate police state to make things "simpler" that end up being the most complicated bullshit imaginable.

How exactly are you going to enforce a sales tax on all goods and services including private transactions? What sort of massive, overreaching nanny-state are you picturing will enforce this? Or is all this just relying on people's incredible honesty. I mean after all, this whole subject is about illegal labor- that is- people willing to break the law to save a few bucks hiring others to do work for them. Wait, you mean people CHEAT?!!

But all of a sudden a tax on EVERYTHING that's huge enough to replace income taxes will have everyone that can easily afford to skirt it (and probably end up praised for doing so, the same way people end up praised as civil rights champions for hiring illegal workforces) on the up and up.