The first paragraph of this article made me cringe

Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
manimal

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
politics of now.....screw later....



think of the payroll tax as a mini stimulus....sure it could have been targeted better but thats all they could get trough in the current climate....

Hoepfully these things are enough for that idiotic uncertainty argument to go away...sadly I am mistaken though..the parrots will keep parroting..
 
J

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
1
81
Some estimates place the full deal as adding $900 billion to our deficit over the next 2 years (conbined payroll reduction, tax cut extensions, unemployment extensions).

We're near $1.6 trillion in deficits annually already. This is just insanity.
 
B

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
2,170
3
76
Forget kicking the can down the road... this was an 80 yard field goal. Complete and total disregard for deficits and the national debt, as well as completely irresponsible.

And don't be so sure about that 'takes away market uncertainty argument'. As an institutional sell-sider, I'm suddenly very concerned about how the bond market is going to perceive this. The politicians have just said 'fvck it...charge everything' as usual with not even a hint of concern for the long term health of this country. UST yields are likely going up once this is digested. Hope everybody refinanced while you could...
 
R

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
1
76

Seriously, how is this a good idea?

The worst thing is people will try and cash in now but in 2 years or later the piling debt will be unable to be hidden.

I think this is a bad idea for everyone involved.
 
F

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
0
Looks like Obama is willing to do just about anything to get re-elected. I'm not sure Palin would even be this stupid.
 
Zorkorist

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
You speak compromise like it is some magic word.

And then you ask people to argue it?

-John
 
Last edited:
Zorkorist

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
It hurts, Obamites, to see him this weak.

It's as simple as that.

-John
 
theeedude

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Yeah, we should have just cut taxes on the super rich and waited for the dribble down economics to kick in :D
 
C

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
RbSX said:
Seriously, how is this a good idea?

The worst thing is people will try and cash in now but in 2 years or later the piling debt will be unable to be hidden.

I think this is a bad idea for everyone involved.
Click to expand...

It's a terrible idea that results from the rich having enough power in Congress to demand tax cuts for themselves holding things like unemployment hostage.

Some stimulus makes sense in a recovering economy but this politically corrupt stimulus puts the money the wrong places and adds to the debt badly.
 
D

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
106
Craig234 said:
It's a terrible idea that results from the rich having enough power in Congress to demand tax cuts for themselves holding things like unemployment hostage.

Some stimulus makes sense in a recovering economy but this politically corrupt stimulus puts the money the wrong places and adds to the debt badly.
Click to expand...

<sarcasm> Yeah, things were great, but then this $70 billion to maintain the same cut for the "rich" that everyone else got is ruined it! </sarcasm>

The "tax cut for the rich" is the political equivalent of a meaningless feature list checkmark on a video card box. The amount is a pittance compared to the deficit, it's not even worth spending a bunch of time on, we have bigger issues to deal with..... but it became a symbolic item for both sides: the repubs wanted to show they would not let taxes get raised - on anyone... while the dems wanted to tell their base they were doing whatever they could to sock it to the "rich".

Bottom line, the $70 billion is meaningless, just a political hot potato. The real issue is the $900 billion we just added to the credit card balances of our children :(
 
bamacre

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
Argo said:
So the compromise was to cut the income while increasing the spending... Lovely.
Click to expand...

Bipartisanship: When the party of evil and the party of stupid get together and do something evil and stupid.
 
Skitzer

Skitzer

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2000
4,414
3
81
senseamp said:
Yeah, we should have just cut taxes on the super rich and waited for the dribble down economics to kick in :D
Click to expand...

Except that the dribble down economics you speak of comes in the form of higher unemployment.
 
T

The-Noid

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,117
4
76
brencat said:
Forget kicking the can down the road... this was an 80 yard field goal. Complete and total disregard for deficits and the national debt, as well as completely irresponsible.

And don't be so sure about that 'takes away market uncertainty argument'. As an institutional sell-sider, I'm suddenly very concerned about how the bond market is going to perceive this. The politicians have just said 'fvck it...charge everything' as usual with not even a hint of concern for the long term health of this country. UST yields are likely going up once this is digested. Hope everybody refinanced while you could...
Click to expand...

Rates sell sider will never have a problem. If rates go up there are natural buyers from the retail side for the income and as rates are going down institutional clients come in like crazy for the total return aspect.

Rates going up sling from HF/institution to MF/Retail/trust accounts for the income, rates going down sling from MF/Retail accounts because they jumped early to HF/institutions that lever up.

You will be fine brencat, don't worry about that. Without a default or a downgrade you have nothing to worry about.

On a side note why do you think all the servicers are putting vol onto the market the last couple of weeks? Seems like the swap curve will act worse as rates move higher. Taking profits before year-end on vol they bought lower down on the swap curve?
 
Last edited:
B

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
2,170
3
76
Yoxxy said:
On a side note why do you think all the servicers are putting vol onto the market the last couple of weeks? Seems like the swap curve will act worse as rates move higher. Taking profits before year-end on vol they bought lower down on the swap curve?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure anyone expected this type of outcome with regard to tax cuts, estate tax, and certainly the bill for it all, considering the rhetoric and how firm Obama *seemed* to be in his stance. As expected, the 10-yr UST is down over a point today and is showing 3.07% as I'm typing this. 7-yr is close to being down a point too, now at 2.39%.

Yes, people are in year-end mode but some people also feel compelled to go along with the trend. See, the thing about debt monetization is that once everyone starts doing it, it actually becomes a vol-dampening event as we all come to expect it. But one day, this is going to all blow up. I'm nervous tbh.
 
HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,479
33,008
136
So disapointing.

Should have taken care of this back during his original tax cuts. Could have inacted an additional tax cut for the middle class same size as current have it take effect at the same time the Bush cuts expire. THis would have seperated the middle class and millionare cuts.

Would have been harder for Republicans to block additional tax cuts for the middle class back in 2009.
 
D

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
126
Craig234 said:
It's a terrible idea that results from the rich having enough power in Congress to demand tax cuts for themselves holding things like unemployment hostage.

Some stimulus makes sense in a recovering economy but this politically corrupt stimulus puts the money the wrong places and adds to the debt badly.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't classify the $70B/year part you are talking as "badly" given the context.
 
Amused

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,442
19,879
146
bamacre said:
Bipartisanship: When the party of evil and the party of stupid get together and do something evil and stupid.
Click to expand...

images
 
Zebo

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Why do we pay taxes at all?

If they can gin up 2.1 trillion what's another 1.2 tillion which is current receipts?

Would save a lot of time and paper.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom