The final word on TV-Out please...

[stephpar]

OK folks. I have a Gainward GF3 w/ VIVO. I just tried tv out on it with my crappy old 20 inch RCA TC using a single 5 meter RCA wire going to the VCR then to the TV since all i have is COAX input on the TV. DVDs are ok. Games (NHL2002) are not as good, and text/desktop stuff is just plain awful. What, if anything can i do? Is this as good as it gets.

Questions:

Would a larger new TV improve things? (read: 27 inch TUBE tv)
Would a bigger TV make the text legible?
Is the RCA cable my problem? (i'm using a single line audio RCA to RCA cable since the RCA vid cables are insanely priced for the distance i needed.)
Would improving the cable provide a dramatic difference?

I'm simply using windows to enable TV output since TV tool wont jive with my setup.

What's everyone's impressions here? Input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks folks.

Steph

 

[Auric]

In order of cost/improvement:

Make cable using cheap but effective coaxial as used with cable TV.
Spring for thicker "video" cable.
Get a Radeon.
Get a SDTV with S-Video or better yet Component-Video (utilizing output from Radeon)
Get a HDTV ditto

DVD and other videos can look great on TV with a good TVO card but text will not and games will sacrifice a lot. SDTV resolution is too low and getting a bigger one might make it more legible but only less sharp if anything.

I do not want to sound like a Radeon fanboy here but there is no other choice for picture quality, especially TVO.

 

[Mavrick007]

You can get better pic quality by using S-Video and direct to TV with that connection for DVD and games if you change the TV to one with the connectors but the text is still going to look bad unless you either do one of two things, you get an HDTV or a projector to output to the wall. Either way it's going to cost you big $.

TV-Out is really only good for games and pics and stuff that you want to look larger. If your tv isn't very big, then you might as well just keep the output to the monitor cause it will look better there. Either get a bigger monitor or a bigger tv to be able to watch movies or play games, but stick to the monitor for text.

 

[jarpope]

Hello,
I am very interested in this thread....
I have become addicted to the WebTV concept of sitting on the couch and checking my email for the past 2 years. The text is acceptable on my 36" Zenith TV using S-video.
As I will be purchasing a new computer in the next few weeks I would like to configure it with a video card with TV out and a wireless keyboard.
My plan is to replace the WebTV interface with a desktop and use my TV as the monitor.

Does anyone have any first hand experience with TV out that has also seen the WebTV interface that could advise me on a video card?

I am willing to spend the cash for one of the lastest GForce or equivalent cards if it will give text similar to WebTV.

This is unexplored territory for me and I could really use some advise.
Thanks,
jarpope

 

[Nintari]

I have been obsessed with TV output for a while and finally have Everything almost the way I would like, except one thing. I would like to have a radeon 7500 instead of the 8500. the problem with the 8500 is the picture on the TV at 800x600 has an odd filter or mask over the screen that makes everything look blochy and washed out. the 7500 does not have this problem. It is not my rig, drivers or anything else except for the radeon 8500 and this has ben discussed in depth in a thread I have started on another forum. Many many radeon 8500 users have this same problem. However 40x480 and a custom res of 720x568 are fine, no problems.
See for TV out 800x600 seems to be the best resoluton for websurfing and games all you do is change a few setings to make text larger throughout windows.
Right now I run anythng that will let me run at 720x568 (I think that is the res cant remember off hand) which is the windows desktop, and D3D games, everything else I run at 640x480. of course I have 2x quality smoothvision enabled as well. and I do have to be honest everything at those resolutins look great. DVDs (dvds look better on this system than my cheap oritron DVD Player)games etc. I like the fact of having a pc hooked to the stereo too for an MP3 Jukebox
And it may sound geeky to some people but man it is fun playing You dont know jack on a big screen
Also if you are really obsessed with gameing there are lots of great emulators out there that let you play many console games through the pc like epsxe.
I have had a few people that are strictly console amers tell me they really like this setup, especially graphic wise. Many console only gamers dont realise what a pc can do and that you can play some games multiplayer on one unit, like nba 2000, madden, raceing games etc and since I have a lan setup even FPS are great to play

Anyway below is my rig and if anyone has anyquestions in reguards to TV out feel free to ask me. I have tried many cards and setups so far. My next step is to get a dolby digital reciever and speakers then a TV with component in ;P

A few tips....
If you have to go through a VCR to get to your TV you will never be happy image qualty will be crap no matter what. The absolute best way to hook up you pc is usng S-video or if your TV and card support it component video.

If you use a geforce card dont use the Drivers for TV out use TV tool. There is a great improvement in video quality using ths program.

My setup....
Mid Tower Case With lots of cooling ( hey its in an entertainment center I need the extra cooling lol)
ecs k7s5a
1 ghz AMD @ 1.33 Ghz w/ SK-6 (temp difference overclocked was only about 2-4 degrees c)
512mb pc 2100 DDR Mem
40 & 27 gb 7200 RPM hdd
8x DVD
Radeon 8500
SB Audigy
27" Panasonic Panablack TV
Sony Dolby pro logic home theatre system
Logitech Wireless Optical mouse
Logitech Wireless Gamepad
Wireless IR Keyboard with built in pointing device
Antec Easy USB Drive bay (2x USB Ports)
Adaptoid w/ N64 controller and rumble/ tilt pack & 10'usb extension cable (for two player games)
Windows XP
Shared DSL Connection

(BTW only disadvantage to having wireless stuff is all the batterys like the ones that are dying in this keyboard right now)

 

[MCS]

Nintari - how do you rate the TV Out on Geforce cards, say a Geforce 2 MX? I know it largely depends on the controller chip used by a given manufacturer but generally speaking?

 

[JeremiahTheGreat]

I've owned a GF2MX, and boy does TV-out suck arse.

My New Radeon 8500 LE is much much better, although i do get that problem with the blotchiness at 800x600 TVout, but fixed that by running TV-out @ 1024 x 768!!!

 

[Nintari]

TV Out on geforces do suck, unless you use TV Tool then it is much better. 640x480isn't so bad but 800x600 reallly realllly looks like crap. Once you install TV Tool though it looks much much better and you get different over and underscan options.

Yes 1024x768 looks prety good but I cant surf the web comfortably and most text in games is too small to read (for example need for speed porche unleashed)

The kyro II and radeon 8500 have to be the best I have used so far for TV out. Kyroo II becuase it looks great at 800x600, and the radeon 8500 because of all the options you have for TV out in the way of resizeing and etc. Radeon 8500 looks very good too but as I said there is that odd filter over te screen at 800x600 which really ticks me off. Makes watching DVD movies and playing games almost unbareable at times!

 

[MCS]

Not on the whole an encouraging opinion then. I have bought myself a GF2 MX400 for the specific use of TV out, it was cheap and I wanted something solid and fast in low res gaming. In my eyes the MX is still the best budget gaming card for the price. I will definitely get tvtool if it helps that much, but I have never used TV Out of any form before so I wouldn't know if my card sucks or not

 

[Nintari]

As for budget cards for TV out gaming hands down the hercules 4500 Kyro II based card is the best card have used. Next step up would be the radeon 7500, then the radeon 8500 but the 8500 does have that bug at 800x600. The MX really isnt bad at all if you use tv tool. I tried with a gf2mx, mx 400 gf2ti and gf3 and tv tool did make a good improvement over original drivers tv out. Still not quite as good as the kyro II or radeon line though but pretty hard to see a huge difference. My eyes just seem to be more sensetive to certain things. Many people at another forum though I was lying about the bug on the 8500 at 800x600 till I told them how to compare and what to look for.

 

[MCS]

<< The MX really isnt bad at all if you use tv tool. >>



Have downloaded it already in preparation!



<< not quite as good as the kyro II or radeon line though but pretty hard to see a huge difference >>



So to an untrained eye as far as TV Out goes I should be "satisfied" with the quality, having never seen any TV out before let alone ATI or KyroII?

 

[rbV5]

<< So to an untrained eye as far as TV Out goes I should be "satisfied" with the quality, having never seen any TV out before let alone ATI or KyroII? >>



Unfortunately, you have a "trained eye" if you've ever watched television before. I know the Radeon's are good, I know the Matrox cards are good, I've "heard" that the Kyro is good
...but..

I rarely hear people rave about the nVidia TV-out. I've seen MX and GF2 cards w/tv-out, and it was horrible, totally unacceptable. Could have been drivers, but I suspect just a poor afterthought implementation. Some of the models are supposed to be better, but they'd have to be a magnitude better to even get close.

The DVI>component video-out dongle ATI is supposed to release this month will support HDTV 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i. For DVD 's 480i and 480p.
I'm hoping it will support all the Radeon DVI's (I'll have to break-out the ol' AIW Radeon again!)

 

[MCS]

Great!

Well if it really is unbearable I can always change the card. We shall see.

 

[Mavrick007]

I have heard that a new major implementation to the GF4 will be better tv-out and dvd decoding, as well as better 2D cause they know that ATI for one kicks their butt in DVD and 2D. I'm going to wait for one of the new cards which should be here in a couple of months.

 

[rbV5]

<< We shall see. >>



Oh yea, never hurts to try, and they weren't using TV-Tool either, so could be fine. Let us know how it looks.

 

[MCS]

It arrived this morning, so I will indeed let you all know.

 

[Nintari]

As I said use 800x600, look at the default TV out, then Turn on TV tool and look at the difference. Will you be using RCA or S-Video? Direct to TV or through a VCR? Just want to know your setup so I know what it will look like

 

[MCS]

Direct connection to the composite on the front of my Sony 29"

 

[ZGouki]

My main question... what is TV Tool? Is there one for the GF3?

I have a tricked out GF3 called OCZ Titan 3. Here's the URL:

http://www.ocztech.com/products/titan3.html

...it has hardware HDTV decoding etc... I am interested in TV out (s-video) to a 32" Sony Vega Trinitron television.

 

[Nintari]

Try to use s-video and not rca (composite) if at all possible. Big image quality difference

 

[rbV5]

<< it has hardware HDTV decoding etc >>



Sorry, someone is pulling your leg, it doesn't have an HDTV decoder or even Video-in for that matter, but it does overclock well and good RF filters, so 2d is probably nice. It may be able to display HDTV resolutions, but there's no way to get it in the box at all, or send it out of the box with analog s-video. The TV-out may be good for DVD's and games though.

 

[ZGouki]

OCZ Titan 3 Features:


"High Definition Video Processor for full screen and HDTV video playback"
Original Blue Orb GPU Cooler for improved GPU cooling
Copper Ramsinks for improved memory cooling
Improved RFI filtering for sharper 2D clarity
S-VIDEO and DVI output
Full API support
AGP 2X/4X


I can take a picture of the HDTV processor with my digicam when I get it back from my friend. Trust me, it has one.

In terms of outputs, you are correct... never thought of that but that doesn't mean much. It still means it can display a true HDTV quality file through hardware and display on my monitor.

 

[Packy]

Distance shouldn't be a problem, even with RCA cables. I bought the longest length svideo cable from svideo.com for fairly cheap.

For audio I used a crappy 25' video/mono audio RadioShack cable, split it in half and connected the halves together, making a 50' line for the digital audio of my SBLive to go to my digital receiver.

The expensive part for you will be getting a 27" or larger TV have has svideo. They're way cheaper than they used to be though!

 

[rbV5]

<< It still means it can display a true HDTV quality file through hardware and display on my monitor. >>



To view these types of signals on your computer, you'll need a monitor and video card capable of supporting HDTV resolutions (there are at least 18 different ones, but typically 1,920 x 1,080 or 1,920 x 1,200 )like your card apparently supports, as well as many other cards on the market.

THEN:

You have to get the HDTV signal from a decoder box or tuner(unlike your card, it won't do this) and deliver it to your video card for it to be able to display on your monitor. How exactly will you do that I wonder? That card has no video-in at all. HDTV video files arent available on portable media such as DVD's or CD's, so I guess you download with a broadband connection? I dunno, sounds like the ol' marketing gimmick to me. Let me know how it works.

 

[imgod2u]

Unfortunately, unless you have an HDTV, that's the maximum of your resolution. If you do have an HDTV, either get a component out (on a video card or dedicated video out card) or get an HDTV with VGA input (that connects directly to the computer's VGA out), if you want both your monitor and TV to show the image, just get a VGA splitter. That would make a significantly higher image (may even replace your monitor for all but text). HDTV has a horizontal resolution of a maximum of 1080i lines (and roughly 720 vertically)