The final days of LucasArts from the inside

styrafoam

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2002
2,684
0
0
http://kotaku.com/how-lucasarts-fell-apart-1401731043

Article makes a good case of blaming the mess that L.A. became on a bureaucracy, with the devs needing to please a revolving door of executives who had nothing to do with gaming. Good old George even liked to get in on the action of derailing game development from time to time evidently. A commenter who claims to have worked there recently claims the story is extremely accurate, but most sources chose to remain unnamed.
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
Oh look, another Kotaku article with people speaking "On condition of anonymity".
 

Arglebargle

Senior member
Dec 2, 2006
892
1
81
Anyone who works in the business, and wants to continue to work in the business, wisely remains nameless. Or is it somehow different wherever you're at?
 
Mar 10, 2005
14,647
2
0
i had already read that. i'm not surprised to see every couple years lucas would suddenly give a shit and turn everything upside down.

imo, anything connected to george lucas, star wars in particular, is overrated.
 

VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,193
2
76
The best thing that has happened to Star Wars games is DICE getting to make battlefront. That may actually have the all the makings of a game that would unseat COD from it's throne.

If they go all out and find a way to get space battles tied into it I would honestly soil my undergarments.

I'm also intrigued by Visceral's star wars action game. One could hope it's a spiritual successor to Jedi Knight. Jedi Outcast was a special game, and it pained me greatly that Force Unleashed seemed to borrow nothing of what made Jedi Outcast so great.

Of the EA studios I think could make a great Star Wars game another would be Crytek. The nanosuit powers/gameplay are basically all they need to simulate a Jedi knight experience.

Anyways, EA if you are reading this please please please please please please make a Xwing/Tie fighter game.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Anyone who works in the business, and wants to continue to work in the business, wisely remains nameless. Or is it somehow different wherever you're at?

120% this.

Seems like a pattern though, when companies circle the drain there's a staggering amount of things they all have in common.
 

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
5,537
2,834
136
120% this.

Seems like a pattern though, when companies circle the drain there's a staggering amount of things they all have in common.
Seems like it's always a passionate core of dedicated talent led my myopic managers and execs who don't understand the business.

Sounds like a lot of America.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
nooooo10.jpg
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
Personally, I could never understand (and still can't really) why they didn't, and still apparently aren't planning to make KOTOR 3. It was such a great story line and there was so much potential to tie together the stories of Revan and the Exile uniting to battle the forces from the outer reaches of the galaxy.

I would have much preferred that to another mmo, and I think a lot of others felt the same way. I understand since they made TOR, that they might not want kotor 3 to compete with it, but since TOR has pretty much run its course, I can't understand why no one even now seems interested in kotor 3.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
Personally, I could never understand (and still can't really) why they didn't, and still apparently aren't planning to make KOTOR 3. It was such a great story line and there was so much potential to tie together the stories of Revan and the Exile uniting to battle the forces from the outer reaches of the galaxy.

I would have much preferred that to another mmo, and I think a lot of others felt the same way. I understand since they made TOR, that they might not want kotor 3 to compete with it, but since TOR has pretty much run its course, I can't understand why no one even now seems interested in kotor 3.

I can think of two things: KOTOR2 was rushed and also wasn't very well received by mindless gamer crowd, and TOR killed the franchise altogether.

The way Lucasarts shortchanged KOTOR2 by forcing Obsidian to release it ahead of schedule AND preventing them to do a post-release patch should make anyone with a working brain mad. Lucasarts should have died for this travesty alone, especially tearing down the reputation of Obsidian for something they didn't deserve.
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
I can think of two things: KOTOR2 was rushed and also wasn't very well received by mindless gamer crowd, and TOR killed the franchise altogether.

The way Lucasarts shortchanged KOTOR2 by forcing Obsidian to release it ahead of schedule AND preventing them to do a post-release patch should make anyone with a working brain mad. Lucasarts should have died for this travesty alone, especially tearing down the reputation of Obsidian for something they didn't deserve.

That is my guess as well. I could understand it at the time (although being VERY disappointed). I think they thought TOR was going to be a huge success. It seems now they would reconsider, maybe a great kotor 3 would revive some interest. I think another reason is that they want a more consolized experience like cod or gta, with an online component. Probably easier and quicker to code than a high quality single player RPG, and you can milk out a few extra bucks for micro transactions. But considering how ME3 turned out, maybe it is just as well.
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
81
Now that EA has SW games pretty solidly, I wonder if in the future they will hire new teams or if they will allow SW projects to hold back ME4/DA4/etc? Perhaps even slow the arrival of BF5 for a new BattleFront?
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
The way Lucasarts shortchanged KOTOR2 by forcing Obsidian to release it ahead of schedule AND preventing them to do a post-release patch should make anyone with a working brain mad. Lucasarts should have died for this travesty alone, especially tearing down the reputation of Obsidian for something they didn't deserve.


Seconded. Karma's come back around though, LucasArts is gone and Obsidian has gotten millions in crowdsourced funds from Kickstarter. :)


Now that EA has SW games pretty solidly, I wonder if in the future they will hire new teams or if they will allow SW projects to hold back ME4/DA4/etc? Perhaps even slow the arrival of BF5 for a new BattleFront?

If you're expecting good games to come from EA, you'd better curb those expectations right now. EA is the graveyard of good developers.
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
81
If you're expecting good games to come from EA, you'd better curb those expectations right now. EA is the graveyard of good developers.

Hm, it seems I have failed to keep up my anti-EA rhetoric of late! But yea, you're preaching to the choir; I was just thinking if they abandoned or delayed existing popular franchises to chase the fabled Star Wars Dollar, it might expose them.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
lucasarts had a money machine. they just didn't know what the fuck to do with it. Another Xwing game, KOTOR game, or such and people would buy it. Unless it sucked like star wars new republic.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,504
12
0
The problem with George Lucas, especially later in his career, is he surrounded himself with too many yes men. He doesn't know much about game development. I think if someone had explained to him why you can't change the whole plot mid-way through, he would have understood. I can't really blame him this time.

What happened to LucasArts was what happens to just about any creative products when suits start taking over production. Someone may have a Harvard MBA but that doesn't mean they know how to make a movie or a game. You really need to hire CEOs that have experience in that particular industry. Apple did so well under Steve Jobs because he knew the products inside and out. He was a tech guy, he knew how to build and design PCs. He also understood the business aspect of it. Which is why he was such a strong CEO. Tim Cook, an MBA, does not. He knows the business side but not the product. Which is why Apple's innovation has slowed down. They still haven't learned. You can't run a business without knowing the intricate details of what the business does.

Going back a bit, LucasArts really began falling apart in 2003. Back when they cancelled Freelance Police and lost their most talented devs to Telltale. That same time Bioware swore they would never work with LucasArts again due to the strict deadlines and notorious micromanaging. Which is why KotOR II got pushed to Obsidian. They ran into the same issues and the game was released buggy and incomplete.
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
81
I can't believe they actually considered a GTA Coruscant though. I mean, I would buy that, no problem, it's just that sometimes, it's hard to believe game companies actually consider things that people would want!
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
The problem with George Lucas, especially later in his career, is he surrounded himself with too many yes men. He doesn't know much about game development. I think if someone had explained to him why you can't change the whole plot mid-way through, he would have understood. I can't really blame him this time.

What happened to LucasArts was what happens to just about any creative products when suits start taking over production. Someone may have a Harvard MBA but that doesn't mean they know how to make a movie or a game. You really need to hire CEOs that have experience in that particular industry. Apple did so well under Steve Jobs because he knew the products inside and out. He was a tech guy, he knew how to build and design PCs. He also understood the business aspect of it. Which is why he was such a strong CEO. Tim Cook, an MBA, does not. He knows the business side but not the product. Which is why Apple's innovation has slowed down. They still haven't learned. You can't run a business without knowing the intricate details of what the business does.

Going back a bit, LucasArts really began falling apart in 2003. Back when they cancelled Freelance Police and lost their most talented devs to Telltale. That same time Bioware swore they would never work with LucasArts again due to the strict deadlines and notorious micromanaging. Which is why KotOR II got pushed to Obsidian. They ran into the same issues and the game was released buggy and incomplete.

Yea, way to go Bioware. Sell out to EA instead. They certainly do not interfere with gaming creativity or producing a quality product. (Sorry, just couldnt resist a shot at Bioware too.)
 

festa_freak

Member
Dec 2, 2011
136
0
0
i had already read that. i'm not surprised to see every couple years lucas would suddenly give a shit and turn everything upside down.

imo, anything connected to george lucas, star wars in particular, is overrated.

Can you make an exception for the first three movies? Pleassssssse?

I miss lucas arts. I loved star wars growing up and me and my friends had a lot of fun playing the jedi knight games over phone line connections. We had fun playing galactic battlegrounds and I had a ton of fun myself with X-Wing alliance. Holy crap that was awesome! The skirmishes you could create were great! I would fly as the falcon or the YT-2000 and just let my turrets do the heavy lifting.
 

Revolution 11

Senior member
Jun 2, 2011
952
79
91
Can you make an exception for the first three movies? Pleassssssse?

I miss lucas arts. I loved star wars growing up and me and my friends had a lot of fun playing the jedi knight games over phone line connections. We had fun playing galactic battlegrounds and I had a ton of fun myself with X-Wing alliance. Holy crap that was awesome! The skirmishes you could create were great! I would fly as the falcon or the YT-2000 and just let my turrets do the heavy lifting.
Lucas can be a very creative director and advocate for gaming when he is surrounded by the right people. Remember, it was Lucas himself who pushed for the creation of LucasArts because he wanted to expand Star Wars into a relatively new field at that time, video games.

The original movies and all the old LucasArts games were so good because he was challenged by those around him. They critiqued his decisions, frankly told him when his ideas would not work, and changed other ideas to better fit his movies.

Since the 90's however, he was not being challenged like before. Hence the prequels. Hence the lackluster and boneheaded utilization of the Star Wars franchise over the last 10 years. Hence the worsening management of LucasArts which led to its demise. Success breeds complacency which is the first step to failure.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
The problem with George Lucas, especially later in his career, is he surrounded himself with too many yes men. He doesn't know much about game development. I think if someone had explained to him why you can't change the whole plot mid-way through, he would have understood. I can't really blame him this time.

If you read some of the article comments (and believe them) then some are from ex-LucasArts devs. And they talk about how you either went with what GL wanted or got fired if you challenged him. That means if you wanted to work for Lucas then you had no choice but to be a yes man. So basically, his ego took over and he believed he knew best about everything going on in his companies.
 

JamesV

Platinum Member
Jul 9, 2011
2,002
2
76
I can't believe they actually considered a GTA Coruscant though. I mean, I would buy that, no problem, it's just that sometimes, it's hard to believe game companies actually consider things that people would want!

They consider them, then think 'Hey! That would make a great MMO and we could charge $15 a month! Ka-ching! (cue star wars cantina music).

I hope the success of GTA 5 shows game devs there is a market for big open world games that are not MMOs.