The fight to convince people of climate change...

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uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
5,579
2,937
136
This thread was pretty informative, now I know how conservatives view science!

I love the dichotomy: Government is so inept it's useless, unless it's super sophisticated enough to be conspiring against the general populace!
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
This thread was pretty informative, now I know how conservatives view science!

I love the dichotomy: Government is so inept it's useless, unless it's super sophisticated enough to be conspiring against the general populace!
You should really learn to read for yourself and not just settle for a summary from the voices in your head.
 

Chaosblade02

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
304
0
0
The fact that an email was leaked about "Scientists" cooking the books and their findings about global warming speaks volumes. The only way anyone would be motivated to do such a thing is to make it appear worse than it actually is. Its political scare mongering by the left-wing nuts.

Climate change? Sure its happening, the Earth is in a constant state of change based on a variety of factors, and with or without our influence the climate of the Earth will eventually be less habitable for humans in the future.

For the ones who have the audacity to suggest something as simple as everyone driving hybrid cars will suddenly make the Earth and nature stop changing, or even slow down what is imminently going to happen is just a retard.

Some time in the future we might figure out how to control nature, and the weather, but its not gonna happen in the near future. Until then, people need to STFU about stopping climate change, because any attempts with current knowledge and technology will be futile.

The #1 factor of what effects climate on the Earth is the Sun. Maybe we should send all of these green nuts to take their protests to the Sun.
 
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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Looks like James Hansen the head of NASA/GISS just got arrested again out in front of the White House.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...-outside-white-house-at-pipeline-protest.html

Nothing new, it's the 3rd time he's been arrested, but this time it isn't about "death trains".

guy is an idiot. even if we decided to cut our oil consumption in half we'd still require oil from canada and this is going to be a far safer way to do so than the reverse. not to mention this would help create jobs in the USA. and to think this is the moron who spearheaded the MMGW movement.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
What caused it to warm up after the last Ice Age when there was no large amounts of man-made pollution?

If you can not answer this question, why should we believe in the credibility of a global climate model?

Can humans effect the climate in big way and cause damage? Maybe. However, we live in the real world. If pollution is causing global warming, what do you plan on doing about it? I dont think having my tailpipe emissions tested is going to save the planet. Lets get realistic.
 
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NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
ok piasa, I'll bite:

"A common skeptic argument is that climate has changed naturally in the past, long before SUVs and coal-fired power plants, so therefore humans cannot be causing global warming now. Interestingly, the peer-reviewed research into past climate change comes to the opposite conclusion. To understand this, first you have to ask why climate has changed in the past. It doesn't happen by magic. Climate changes when it’s forced to change. When our planet suffers an energy imbalance and gains or loses heat, global temperature changes.

There are a number of different forces which can influence the Earth’s climate. When the sun gets brighter, the planet receives more energy and warms. When volcanoes erupt, they emit particles into the atmosphere which reflect sunlight, and the planet cools. When there are more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the planet warms. These effects are referred to as external forcings because by changing the planet's energy balance, they force climate to change.

It is obviously true that past climate change was caused by natural forcings. However, to argue that this means we can’t cause climate change is like arguing that humans can’t start bushfires because in the past they’ve happened naturally. Greenhouse gas increases have caused climate change many times in Earth’s history, and we are now adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere at a increasingly rapid rate.
Looking at the past gives us insight into how our climate responds to external forcings. Using ice cores, for instance, we can work out the degree of past temperature change, the level of solar activity, and the amount of greenhouse gases and volcanic dust in the atmosphere. From this, we can determine how temperature has changed due to past energy imbalances. What we have found, looking at many different periods and timescales in Earth's history, is that when the Earth gains heat, positive feedbacks amplify the warming. This is why we've experienced such dramatic changes in temperature in the past. Our climate is highly sensitive to changes in heat. We can even quantify this: when you include positive feedbacks, a doubling of CO2 causes a warming of around 3°C.

What does that mean for today? Rising greenhouse gas levels are an external forcing, which has caused climate changes many times in Earth's history. They're causing an energy imbalance and the planet is building up heat. From Earth's history, we know that positive feedbacks will amplify the greenhouse warming. So past climate change doesn't tell us that humans can't influence climate; on the contrary, it tells us that climate is highly sensitive to the greenhouse warming we're now causing"

Your turn - please turn to 'skeptic argument #2' in your simpleton handbook.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
CO2 is not hurting us. Concentrations have been higher and everytjme biodiversity would reach its peak. You guys sound like whiny assholes afraid of social change. Noooo the gays can't marry because that's not how it's supposed to be right? Lol idiots.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,958
138
106
eco-KOOK gore just bought the entire top floor of a new high rise in down town san francisco in 2010. He has made over $135 million on this garbage science that he flunked out of in college.. and he can never debate the issue. He just keeps calling people that won't put more money in his pocket a racist. He is the most pathetic alarmist kook that needs to be prosecuted for his criminal alarmist rackets.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
Not a bad post NeoV. Here's where it runs into problems.
"....What we have found, looking at many different periods and timescales in Earth's history, is that when the Earth gains heat, positive feedbacks amplify the warming. This is why we've experienced such dramatic changes in temperature in the past. Our climate is highly sensitive to changes in heat. We can even quantify this: when you include positive feedbacks, a doubling of CO2 causes a warming of around 3°C."

You include a couple of points that are at the base of contention between Climate Alarmists and Climate Realists. Those are "positive feedbacks" and "sensitivity", much of recent peer reviewed science on these 2 issues point out that the climate is less sensitive then the IPCC claims and that there are more negative feedbacks than positive ones. Here's a couple of articles that support the Climate Realist point of view.

http://judithcurry.com/2011/08/16/climate-sensitivity-to-ocean-heat-transport/

http://judithcurry.com/2011/07/05/t...odel-independent-climate-sensitivity-results/

http://judithcurry.com/2011/07/07/climate-sensitivity-follow-up/

http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.c...munitys-inappropriate-model-centered-reality/

http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.c...-in-some-simple-conceptual-models-by-j-bates/
 

Chaosblade02

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
304
0
0
Its old news, but its a good article, just in case some of you forgot about climategate.

http://us.altermedia.info/news-of-i...istle-on-global-warming-researchers_6624.html

by James Buchanan
Ice_Age.jpg

Two times within the last 100 years, there have been periods of Global Cooling. During the first time in the 1970s, Newsweek noticed the cooling period and put an alarmist article on their cover about the earth temperature plunging. The UK Daily Telegraph reports that “There IS a problem with global warming… it stopped in 1998″. That’s right Global temperatures have dropped since 1998 even though we have more factories and people than ever. Some cities like Seattle have had a noticeable increase in winter snowfall in recent years. It’s hard not to notice iced-up roads since a normal winter in Seattle won’t have any.


The Global Warming Theory claims that man-made pollution is causing a significant increase in CO2 in the upper atmosphere which is causing the earth’s temperature to climb. This theory assumes that the sun is not significantly varying its heat output. Well, the two periods of Global Cooling in the 1970s and over the last eleven years are proof that the sun can easily overwhelm the effect of pollution that man puts out, even with the earth’s population nearing seven billion people.



Some of the Global Warming crowd have tried to substitute “Global Climate Change” for Global Warming, but few intelligent people take that seriously. Alex Jones recently caught Al Gore photo-shopping several hurricanes from years ago in an implicitly recent picture of the world. Al Gore’s little bit of trickery however has been overshadowed by a hacker, who obtained some internal e-mails from so-called Global Warming researchers, who privately discuss whether they should hide certain information from the public.



A Fox News article reports “Hackers broke into the servers at a prominent British climate research center and leaked years worth of e-mail messages onto the Web, including one with a mysterious reference to a plan to “hide the decline,” apparently in temperatures. The Internet is abuzz about the leaked data from the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit (commonly called Hadley CRU), which has acknowledged the theft of 61MB of confidential data. Climate change skeptics describe the leaked data as a ‘smoking gun,’ evidence of collusion among climatologists and manipulation of data to support the widely held view that climate change is caused by the actions of mankind. The files were reportedly released on a Russian file-serve by an anonymous poster calling himself ‘FOIA.’ …TGIF Edition asked Jones about the controversial ‘hide the decline’ comment from an e-mail he wrote in 1999. He told the magazine that there was no intention to mislead, but he had ‘no idea’ what he meant by those words. The Telegraph has posted some of the more scathing excerpts from these emails, which the newspaper suggests points to manipulation of evidence and private doubts about the reality of global warming…”


One of the co-founders of the Weather Channel, John Coleman has recently given an interview in which he announces a lawsuit against Al Gore challenging Global Warming on behalf of 30,000 scientists including 9,000 PhD’s. Coleman mentions that his attempts to arrange a debate on Global Warming have been turned down and only Fox News has given any coverage to the massive opposition to Global Warming by real scientists as opposed to a Divinity School drop out.


The Global Warming movement was a hoax from Day One. Leftist professors were hoping that the earth’s temperature would keep climbing and they could use public hysteria to vacuum up billions in grant money to study it. Democrats were hoping they could use Global Warming to introduce punishing legislation that would boost taxes on big corporations. The truth is that the energy output from the sun goes through natural cycles and man-made pollution is still insignificant compared to changes caused by the sun.
Not very nice of them to cook the books now is it? Also what I underlined is pretty significant. It proves that the argument is FAR from over.

Also Al Gore links climate change skeptics to racists:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ea...ikens-climate-change-sceptics-to-racists.html

Is that the best you can do Al? Poor old Al is starting to get butthurt because he can't convince every living idiot.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Learn to read for myself? About science or the drivel I was bemoaning previously?
Both. Note that this thread is specifically about Al Gore's attempt to redefine CAGW skeptics as equal to racists. This is NOT science. It is the very opposite of science, propaganda, an attempt to make gullible people believe something patently false for an ulterior motive. What conservatives say about this is NOT about science, but about one man's attempt to get his way dishonestly, by smearing his opponents.

As far as the science behind CAGW: Someone caught cheating, falsifying numbers, doesn't have LESS credibility, he has NO credibility. Even if he is "a scientist." One's credibility depends more on one's character than on one's educational credentials. When NASA gets caught changing the time temperatures are taken and correcting those few years also changes four decades of previous temperature measurements, NASA has NO credibility on climate change, and will not until the responsible parties are driven out. When scientists get caught replacing actual predicted numbers with measured numbers because their model does not deliver the measured temperatures, those scientists no longer have any credibility. None.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
So your belief that something is a problem is based entirely on whether or not there is a convenient or obvious solution to the problem? That certainly sounds easy, but not exactly realistic.

There are convenient, obvious and cheap solutions to the problem, if there is a problem, but let's just say there are convenient, obvious and cheap ways to cool the earth. But they're so cheap that they won't make anyone rich, so Al Gore dismisses them as "crazy."
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
I planted a tree. One tree can handle more CO2 than my vehicle could ever produce. So don't tell me I'm killing the planet. I'm feeding my tree!
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
Omg Chaos - you have overtaken the other morons in this thread...

If you want to argue about what we should or can do, and what we can afford to do about man's impact on the climate - I'm 100% open for that discussion.

That said - the pathetic attempts at discrediting the science behind all of this - and you actually underline the part about John Coleman? Are you f'ing kidding me? Here's a blurb about Coleman - you may want to at least do a google check before you post AND UNDERLINE stuff:

"Taking a page straight out of Christopher Monckton, Coleman whined to host Greg Gutfeld – a paragon of fair and balanced journalism, I might add – that he and his coalition of “30,000” scientists were sick and tired of all this consensus talk and that they weren’t going to take it lying down anymore (especially now that the evil Liberal Media had essentially shut him out).

If that sounds familiar, it’s because you’ve heard it before.

At last year’s 2008 International Conference on Climate Change (or, as I like to call it, the “2008 Skeptic-Palooza That Wasn’t”), Coleman spewed the same tired diatribe, accusing Al Gore and carbon credit sellers of perpetrating mass “financial fraud” and of burying a “legitimate” debate. He urged his fellow discontents to help him launch a lawsuit in order to expose their shady practices:

“If the lawyers will take the case – sue the people who sell carbon credits. That includes Al Gore. That lawsuit would get so much publicity, so much media attention. And as the experts went to the witness stand and testified, I feel like that could become the vehicle to finally put some light on the fraud of global warming.”

Well, it’s been almost a year since that epochal meeting, and there’s still no sign of a lawsuit – this despite the heroic efforts of Frank Bi of the International Journal of Inactivism and others to ease his endeavor. (Of course, it doesn’t help that previous attempts to do so failed miserably.) It’s certainly within the realm of possibility that Coleman and his acolytes could be biding their time, looking for just the right opportunity (perhaps this year’s Copenhagen climate talks) to strike. But somehow I doubt that.

If Coleman’s on-air appearance is any indication of the strength of his legal argument, he’ll probably want to spend more time preparing anyway. For one thing, he claimed that average global temperatures had risen by “maybe a tenth of a degree” over the last century; strange then that the IPCC reported in 2007 that temperatures actually increased by an average of 0.74°C over the same period.

Coleman’s take on the “hockey stick” graph (a reconstruction of Northern Hemisphere temperatures over the past millennium that shows a sharp rise in the last century) was equally laughable. Far from being disproven by “science,” as he asserted, its findings were in fact reaffirmed by a sprawling 2006 report commissioned by the National Academy of Sciences. The authors drew on 1,200 overlapping proxy records, or data sets, including ice and sediment core contents and coral and tree growth trends, to derive historical temperature patterns for the past 2,000 years in both hemispheres. Their conclusion: Yes, Virginia, global warming is real.

As for Coleman’s 30,000 backers: Let’s just say that that number may be slightly inflated. Based on a long-discredited petition passed around by the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine during the 90s, it was even debunked by the Skeptics Society. The National Academy of Sciences called it “misleading” and “not based on a review of the science of global climate change, nor were its signers experts in the field of climate science.” Oh, and did I mention that several of its signatories are already dead?"

More specifically - on that "30,000" scientists number - you may want to read this:

http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/the-oregon-petition/

I'll summarize for you - it's total, complete bullshit.

Finally, as for 'cooking the books', or, as were-idiot put it, 'falsifying numbers and cheating'....did you ever even read any of that stuff, or did the sensational headlines have you at the first word?

From John Cook - who knows more about this stuff than all of us put together:

"In November 2009, the servers at the University of East Anglia in Britain were illegally hacked and emails were stolen. When a selection of emails between climate scientists were published on the internet, a few suggestive quotes were seized upon by many claiming global warming was all just a conspiracy. A number of independent enquiries have investigated the conduct of the scientists involved in the emails. All have cleared the scientists of any wrong doing:

In February 2010, the Pennsylvania State University released an Inquiry Report that investigated any 'Climategate' emails involving Dr Michael Mann, a Professor of Penn State's Department of Meteorology. They found that "there exists no credible evidence that Dr. Mann had or has ever engaged in, or participated in, directly or indirectly, any actions with an intent to suppress or to falsify data". On "Mike's Nature trick", they concluded "The so-called “trick”1 was nothing more than a statistical method used to bring two or more different kinds of data sets together in a legitimate fashion by a technique that has been reviewed by a broad array of peers in the field."
In March 2010, the UK government's House of Commons Science and Technology Committee published a report finding that the criticisms of the Climate Research Unit (CRU) were misplaced and that CRU’s "Professor Jones’s actions were in line with common practice in the climate science community".
In April 2010, the University of East Anglia set up an international Scientific Assessment Panel, in consultation with the Royal Society and chaired by Professor Ron Oxburgh. The Report of the International Panel assessed the integrity of the research published by the CRU and found "no evidence of any deliberate scientific malpractice in any of the work of the Climatic Research Unit".
In June 2010, the Pennsylvania State University published their Final Investigation Report, determining "there is no substance to the allegation against Dr. Michael E. Mann".
In July 2010, the University of East Anglia published the Independent Climate Change Email Review report. They examined the emails to assess whether manipulation or suppression of data occurred and concluded that "The scientists’ rigor and honesty are not in doubt".
In July 2010, the US Environmental Protection Agency investigated the emails and "found this was simply a candid discussion of scientists working through issues that arise in compiling and presenting large complex data sets."
In September 2010, the UK Government responded to the House of Commons Science and Technology Committee report, chaired by Sir Muir Russell. On the issue of releasing data, they found "In the instance of the CRU, the scientists were not legally allowed to give out the data". On the issue of attempting to corrupt the peer-review process, they found "The evidence that we have seen does not suggest that Professor Jones was trying to subvert the peer review process. Academics should not be criticised for making informal comments on academic papers".
In February 2011, the Department of Commerce Inspector General conducted an independent review of the emails and found "no evidence in the CRU emails that NOAA inappropriately manipulated data".
In August 2011, the National Science Foundation concluded "Finding no research misconduct or other matter raised by the various regulations and laws discussed above, this case is closed".
Just as there are many independent lines of evidence that humans are causing global warming, similarly a number of independent investigations have found no evidence of falsification or conspiracy by climate scientists.

"Mike's Nature trick" and "hide the decline"
The most quoted email is from Phil Jones discussing paleo-data used to reconstruct past temperatures (emphasis mine):

"I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline."
"Mike's Nature trick" refers to a technique (aka "trick of the trade") used in a paper published in Nature by lead author Michael Mann (Mann 1998). The "trick" is the technique of plotting recent instrumental data along with the reconstructed data. This places recent global warming trends in the context of temperature changes over longer time scales.

The most common misconception regarding this email is the assumption that "decline" refers to declining temperatures. It actually refers to a decline in the reliability of tree rings to reflect temperatures after 1960. This is known as the "divergence problem" where tree ring proxies diverge from modern instrumental temperature records after 1960. The divergence problem is discussed in the peer reviewed literature as early as 1995, suggesting a change in the sensitivity of tree growth to temperature in recent decades (Briffa 1998). It is also examined more recently in Wilmking 2008 which explores techniques in eliminating the divergence problem. So when you look at Phil Jone's email in the context of the science discussed, it is not the schemings of a climate conspiracy but technical discussions of data handling techniques available in the peer reviewed literature. More on the hockey stick divergence problem...

Trenberth's "travesty we can't account for the lack of warming"
The second most cited email is from climate scientist and IPCC lead author Kevin Trenberth. The highlighted quote is this: "The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can't." This has been most commonly interpreted (among skeptics) as climate scientists secretly admitting amongst themselves that global warming really has stopped. Trenberth is actually discussing a paper he'd recently published that discusses the planet's energy budget - how much net energy is flowing into our climate and where it's going (Trenberth 2009).

In Trenberth's paper, he discusses how we know the planet is continually heating due to increasing carbon dioxide. Nevertheless, surface temperature sometimes shows short term cooling periods. This is due to internal variability and Trenberth was lamenting that our observation systems can't comprehensively track all the energy flow through the climate system. More on Trenberth's travesty...

The full body of evidence for man-made global warming
An important point to realise is that the emails involve a handful of scientists discussing a few pieces of climate data. Even without this data, there is still an overwhelming and consistent body of evidence, painstakingly compiled by independent scientific teams from institutions across the world.

What do they find? The planet is steadily accumulating heat. When you add up all the heat building in the oceans, land and atmosphere plus the energy required to melt glaciers and ice sheets, the planet has been accumulating heat at a rate of 190,260 Gigawatts over the past 40 years (Murphy 2009). Considering a typical nuclear power plant has an output of 1 Gigawatt, imagine over 190,000 power plants pouring their energy output directly into heating our land and oceans, melting ice and warming the air.

This build-up of heat is causing ice loss across the globe, from the Arctic to the Antarctic. Both Greenland and Antarctica are losing ice at an accelerated rate (Velicogna 2009, ). Even East Antarctica, previously thought to be too cold and stable, is now losing ice mass (Chen 2009). Glacier shrinkage is accelerating. Arctic sea ice has fallen so sharply, observations exceed even the IPCC worst case scenario. The combination of warming oceans and melting ice has resulted in sea level rise tracking the upper limit of IPCC predictions.

Rising temperatures have impacted animal and plant species worldwide. The distribution of tree lines, plants and many species of animals are moving into cooler regions towards the poles. As the onset of spring is happening earlier each year, animal and plant species are responding to the shift in seasons. Scientists observe that frog breeding, bird nesting, flowering and migration patterns are all occurring earlier in the year (Parmeson 2003). There are many other physical signs of widespread warming. The height of the tropopause, a layer in our atmosphere, is rising (Santer 2003). Arctic permafrost, covering about 25% of Northern Hemisphere land, is warming and degrading (Walsh 2009). The tropical belt is widening (Seidel 2007). These results are all consistent with global warming.

What’s causing this heat build-up? Humans are emitting huge amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere - 29 billion tonnes in 2009 (CDIAC). Greenhouse theory predicts that more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will trap heat energy as it escapes out to space. What do we observe? Carbon dioxide absorbs heat at certain wavelengths. Satellites over the past 40 years find less heat escaping to space at these wavelengths (Harries 2001, Griggs 2004, Chen 2007). Where does the heat go? Surface measurements find more heat returning back to the Earth's surface (Philipona 2004). Tellingly, the increase occurs at those same carbon dioxide absorption wavelengths (Evans 2006). This is the human fingerprint in global warming.

There are multiple lines of empirical evidence that global warming is happening and human activity is the cause. A few suggestive emails may serve as a useful distraction for those wishing to avoid the physical realities of climate change. But they change nothing about our scientific understanding of humanity’s role in global warming."
 

Chaosblade02

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
304
0
0
Omg Chaos - you have overtaken the other racists in this thread...

I made a change, because moron is a bit of an understatement. Don't thank me, thank Al Gore.

God and his awsomeness control all of the climate of the Earth, us human peons are just servants to his will. Oh praise the lord!!! :awe:.


J/K!!

But seriously, the science they are using is not an exact science, and to claim such extraordinary claims as predicting the future climate lets say 50 years from now based on evidence they gather now, which many variables would also have to be taken into consideration based on things they don't know and cannot know with current science. There is no way to estimate Humanity's future impact on the Earth via fossil fuels, because there are many other factors that could take effect that we can neither predict or know that would have a much more devastating impact on the Earth. Increased/decreased solar activity, future volcano eruptions especially of the super volcano magnitude, chances to the Atlantic ocean conveyor, which could have a dramatic effect on the climate in certain areas, and quite a few many other factors. Weather and climate is never an exact science, they can't even predict the path of a Hurricane with near certainty.

And from what I understand, global warming will essentially lead to global cooling in the end.

Basically, who cares if we are having a small minute impact on the Earth's climate? There are simply just too many other factors that we have no control over that will have a much more devastating impact, and are guaranteed to happen in the future.

Are you going to go over to China and tell them to quit polluting the Earth? Are you going to personally tell every truck driver to stop driving Semis? Are you going to ground all airplanes? Are you going to tell Al Gore how much of a hypocrite he is for flying around in his private jet? No you aren't and even if you did, nobody is going to stop doing what they are doing just because some whiny little green nut says we are polluting the Earth. Yeah lets just have every country just suddenly stop what they are doing and put a stop to every world economy, so we can "save the Earth", brilliant!!!
 
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monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
Sorry, but i just have to laugh at NeoV's attempts to tapdance and rationalize "hide the decline" yeah, we all know that scientists hide data, it's the 3rd step in the scientific method. Notice he doesn't make any comments about the cooling and growth of ice in the Antarctica. It's a travesty he can't find the "missing heat" in echoes of Kevin Trenberth.

I thought John Cook was a high school teacher, isn't he? Here's a rebuttal to John Cook and his deliberately misnamed "Skeptical Science" blog. PDF. btw.

http://www.climateviews.com/Climate_Views/Download_Articles_files/CookRebuttalb.pdf
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
mono - did you just ignore the 10 or so studies about the 'climate-gate' scandal - that all found no evidence of a scandal at all?

the growth of ice in Antarctica? You want to talk about that - let's do it - you may want to study up the difference between an increase in sea ice vs land ice though - I think - no, I know you'll find that, as you have been all along - you are wrong.

Finally - sparky - your sig - also moronic.

Chaos - if you are of the opinion that we can't really do anything about what's going on with the climate of this planet - then just say that instead of taking all these paths - like citing the many-times-debunked 'climategate' as evidence that this is all some sort of secret hoax, which it isn't.

Also - if you would like to compare the credentials of John Cook to those of Norman Rodgers, founder of the 'climateviews.com' site you've linked, I'd be happy to do that. In fact, that website - you know what, this is pointless.
 

Chaosblade02

Senior member
Jul 21, 2011
304
0
0
Chaos - if you are of the opinion that we can't really do anything about what's going on with the climate of this planet - then just say that instead of taking all these paths - like citing the many-times-debunked 'climategate' as evidence that this is all some sort of secret hoax, which it isn't.

Maybe you can tell me why the world's #1 champion against global warming has to use a private jet and contribute thousands of times the greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere that the average person generates in their lifetime. Apparently Al Gore isn't a real believer either, or he would find another mode of travel, or at the very least ride first class on a regular airlines.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
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mono - did you just ignore the 10 or so studies about the 'climate-gate' scandal - that all found no evidence of a scandal at all?
NeoV, do you understand these equations and how they were used?
;
; Apply a VERY ARTIFICAL correction for decline!!
;
yrloc=[1400,findgen(19)*5.+1904]
valadj=[0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,-0.1,-0.25,-0.3,0.,-0.1,0.3,0.8,1.2,1.7,2.5,2.6,2.6,2.6,2.6,2.6]*0.75 ; fudge factor
if n_elements(yrloc) ne n_elements(valadj) then message,'Oooops!'

yearlyadj=interpol(valadj,yrloc,timey)
 
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