The Evil Isn't Islam
- Thread starter RDWYTruckDriver
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Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
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Here a clue when someone uses politically charged words to describe someone the guy a) is not impartial b) is'nt wanting to engage in serious discussion c) is not a scholar not professional
"In this case, Karen Armstrong, a bestselling apologist for Islam, quotes two gentler passages from the Koran: "
This guys is an israeli Zionist goyboy whos bought and paid for
"In this case, Karen Armstrong, a bestselling apologist for Islam, quotes two gentler passages from the Koran: "
This guys is an israeli Zionist goyboy whos bought and paid for
Again you and others would have different viewpoints on an article like this. My view here is he is correct to imply that Islam needs to change itself at some point in time and the Moslems who are not of the extreme type need to step up and start making these changes that's needed to get itself out of a negative view held by non-Moslems( some,not all ) and parts of the world that will not tolerate negative actions by the extreme factions of Islamist.
I really don't want to ever say that the religion of Islam has fundamental flaws because I know that there are plenty of practicioners of that religion who are good, holy people with respect for their fellow human beings and who have good hearts and intentions. Nevertheless, I wonder. Why does Islam have so many radical followers who kill innocents in the name of their god? Why do so many in that community either turn a blind eye to that segment, actively encourage that segment, or make excuses for that segment?
Of course, there are radicals in other religions, and Christianity has a checkered past with various murderous Crusades and religious wars after the Reformation. Now, however, the radical Christians are sidelined and far from mainstream and universally denounced by church leadership regardless of the sect. You don't hear the Pope issuing edicts for the deaths of "infidels" or calling for a Crusade against Iran.
It's just disturbing to see an entire religion implicated in terrorist violence around the world -- Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Uzbekistan, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Algeria, Turkey, Lebanon, Sudan, Egypt, and on and on. What's the cause? I don't know. What's the commonality? Radical Islam. That distinction is one that must be made when discussing this issue, however. The problem is not necessarily with the entirety of Islam, but with the radical side which, unfortunately, isn't completely a fringe element in some parts of the world.
Of course, there are radicals in other religions, and Christianity has a checkered past with various murderous Crusades and religious wars after the Reformation. Now, however, the radical Christians are sidelined and far from mainstream and universally denounced by church leadership regardless of the sect. You don't hear the Pope issuing edicts for the deaths of "infidels" or calling for a Crusade against Iran.
It's just disturbing to see an entire religion implicated in terrorist violence around the world -- Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Uzbekistan, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Algeria, Turkey, Lebanon, Sudan, Egypt, and on and on. What's the cause? I don't know. What's the commonality? Radical Islam. That distinction is one that must be made when discussing this issue, however. The problem is not necessarily with the entirety of Islam, but with the radical side which, unfortunately, isn't completely a fringe element in some parts of the world.
Everyone knows that evil lies in the hands of men, not religion. There are fanatics in every religion.
Then in his same reply ........
This guys is an israeli Zionist goyboy whos bought and paid for
Note: I did notice his smileys though ......
Personally I think a big piece of the problem is repressive Islamic governments. Millions of Moslem's live in countries that repress their will to freedom and use propaganda against the United States to deflect the hate the people feel from their own misery toward us. It's how Bush got us to attack Iraq when Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia were the source of our misery.
I don't see the point of this argument? What if Koran does advocate killing non-believers? Does it mean we are going to ban Islam in the US?
The Quran does not say to kill non-believers.
If it does please tell me where so I can look it up because I have not read that. It says non-believers will be punished by Allah (arabic for God .. Quran is written in Arabic and Allah means God in Arabic)
The Quran is very much like the Bible in many ways. Mohammad is a prophet that the Bible does not recognize and Jesus was a prophet instead of the son of God. I cannot think of any other MAJOR differences. Of course they are different, but it mainly came from the Bible. I am not into religion that much so correct me if I am wrong. Would love to learn something new.
I admit though that Islam is a very strict religion with very strict rules. Women cover hair, eating halal meat, praying 5x a day, cannot eat pork.. etc. Islam is a way of life and not really a religion. The world thinks the Quran tells people to strap bombs on their chest and if they die they will get virgins .. there is no mention of this in the Quran. Killing people is Haram (wrong) and is forbidden by the Quran.
True, there are tons of extremist out there that make up their own versions of the Quran. Why? Look at the history of Islam. You will get your answer there. As with any new religion you need to make people believe and how do you do that?
If it does please tell me where so I can look it up because I have not read that. It says non-believers will be punished by Allah (arabic for God .. Quran is written in Arabic and Allah means God in Arabic)
The Quran is very much like the Bible in many ways. Mohammad is a prophet that the Bible does not recognize and Jesus was a prophet instead of the son of God. I cannot think of any other MAJOR differences. Of course they are different, but it mainly came from the Bible. I am not into religion that much so correct me if I am wrong. Would love to learn something new.
I admit though that Islam is a very strict religion with very strict rules. Women cover hair, eating halal meat, praying 5x a day, cannot eat pork.. etc. Islam is a way of life and not really a religion. The world thinks the Quran tells people to strap bombs on their chest and if they die they will get virgins .. there is no mention of this in the Quran. Killing people is Haram (wrong) and is forbidden by the Quran.
True, there are tons of extremist out there that make up their own versions of the Quran. Why? Look at the history of Islam. You will get your answer there. As with any new religion you need to make people believe and how do you do that?
Uh......is it me, but can't you pull out quotes from the bible and torah that basically advocate the same things in terms of killing people for simple acts ? Not to mention that the bible/torah are also included as part of the Quran.
I agree with you completely. The way I look at it is that it is not the religion, but it's peoples interpretation of it. If you look at the countries you mentioned, its important to note that almost all of them are very poor and almost all of them are ruled by dictators/despots. When you have poverty, and illiteracy intermingled by no freedom of expression, you are left with a huge section of the population that is ignorant and susseptible to manipulation, I have argued this point before. As a result you have people like the mullahs acting in their own self-interest and manipulating the ignorant masses to confrom with their agenda. What more powerful tool to do this than religion? When you tell a person that what you are preaching is the word of God, and if that person does not have the intellectual means to analyze the issue for himself, he is going to beleive you, and if that entails strapping a bomb and blowing himself up, he/she will probably do it. Then throw in the Pal/Israel conflict. Here you have a conflict in one of the holiest places in Islam. Many say that Arabs are anti-Semetic and thats why they only care about Israel's occupation of the Pals and not Syria's occupation of Lebanon, but Israel is occupying the third most important religious site in Islam. Add that to America's unilateral support of Israel and you have the perfect recipe for jihad. Islam has been hijacked and is being used as a tool, its important to make that very clear.
This is from the link I posted:
I've not read the Quran. So I'm not sure if these " (Sura 5, verse 85), (9:5) means this is were it came from but was used as an example in the article.
Well personally, my hope is that someday we'll relegate these irrational religions, ALL OF THEM, to the Mythology section where they belong and embrace a more Rational vision of life in our universe. That's why I think the Mormons are cool; yeah, they still have the whole silly "Jesus as savior" crap, but at least they've tried to inject their religion with some reason and hope, such as the idea that God exists WITHIN reality and created Earth, but not necessarily all the worlds, and that man can someday reach God's level and make his own world.
They're a stopgap between insanity and reason, IMHO
Jason
They're a stopgap between insanity and reason, IMHO
Jason
Link to the entire chapter.
It all depends on how you view it, how much you know about the early history of Islam, etc. Early Islam took a great deal of theology from the Christian and Jewish Bibles, and possessed a great deal of respect for most Christians and Jews.
Look at this verse, and look for corresponding verses in the Christian Bible. You will find just as many, taken out of context or without regard to historical context.
FWIW, Moslems is the former "standard" for referring to followers of Islam. Another one is "Mohammedins" (sp?). Since Muslims/Moslems is phonetic, I believe, it doesn't really matter. Kind of like Qadafi/Gadafi/Khaddafy/etc from Libya.
There are so many levels of deceit implicit in most of these "politically-charged" interpretations of the Qur'an. In the same way that passages can be plucked from the bible suggesting stonings, killings, etc, so can they be extracted from the Qur'an.
Not to mention the fact that the quotations from this article are mostly taken out-of-context and are translated in a way fitting the author. Here's the closest English translation (from the most widely read version of the Qur'an) of Surah 5, Verse 85:
"Then when the sacred months have passed, then kill the Mushrikun(pagans) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and offer prayers perfectly and give Zakat then leave their way free, verily Allah is oft forgiving, Most Merciful."
This refers to a time in ancient Mesopotamia (Medina) when Muslims were a slim minority and were at war with opposing religions; pagans, christians and jews did not like the new religion that was quickly gathering followers. The "sacred months" refers to the period of five months Muslims were required to give any adversary to retreat from war and to avoid conflict.
So the edict here is not, as the OP-cite suggests, for all muslims to always hunt and kill all pagans as if they were the scum of the earth, but it is a very specific direction in time of war. Not to mention the line: "but if they repent and ofer prayers ... then leave their way free" suggests that if they repent for their grievances (not necessarily "being pagan," as that was not a reason for bloodshed, but murder or adultery, etc) the Qur'an orders Muslims to leave them in peace...
Marinate on that...
Would you, if you had the chance, be willing to take arms against the kuffar in palestine, kashmir, chechnya or the other occupied territories?
The evil is not the religion but the way some use it to justify killing.
The evil is not the religion but the way some use it to justify killing.
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