the ES350 is the worst car i have ever driven

[ElFenix]

you can't see out the damn thing. the rear window is tiny, the front window is tiny, how do people drive these things without running into everything? i guess you have to use a camera in the license plate bracket, there is no way in hell you can use the rear window to parallel park.

the suspension may be competent but you'd never know because it's a goddamn sofa. my taurus had a better connection to the road.

and wood steering wheels look nice, but suck balls in actual usage.

 

[apex32]

Keep in mind that the specific model is a rebadged camry. Don't expect it to be what it isn't.

Lexus = Toyota platform
Acura = Honda platform
Porsche = Shares some Volkswagen platforms/influence

 

[andylawcc]

o rly???? I drove the camry of that generation and I don't find any of the problem you experienced.

 

[LongCoolMother]

on the other hand, the es350 is NICEEEE

 

[theeedude]

Camry & ES = boat & luxo boat
Also, a lot of people driving an ES wouldn't know how to parallel park anyways.

 

[Troll4Hire]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
you can't see out the damn thing. the rear window is tiny, the front window is tiny, how do people drive these things without running into everything? i guess you have to use a camera in the license plate bracket, there is no way in hell you can use the rear window to parallel park.

the suspension may be competent but you'd never know because it's a goddamn sofa. my taurus had a better connection to the road.

and wood steering wheels look nice, but suck balls in actual usage.

ES330=Glorified Toyota Camry. You might be better off trying a Cadillac CTS, it's surprisingly good fun to drive; even that staunch brit Jeremy Clarkson enjoyed driving it.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

For the people they were targetting, these probably aren't issues in any way. Think about the typical ES330 buyer:

1. Someone who wants a Honda/Toyota
2. Someone who wants the ride comfort of the Toyota (smoother ride compared to Honda's)
3. Doesn't really care about the things listed in the OP

Have I driven the car? Yes, I'm not sure that this issue of parallel parking is valid either. You posted a thread a while ago asking which car is preferred between two that you were looking at, and IIRC, those were nicer RWD luxury cars that had a bit more of a sporty characteristic than possible the ES330. If you've been driving cars of that level looking for one, then your opinion on the ES330 make sense and I can't argue with them, but that's because you were looking at that leve.

For the person they are trying to target, what's wrong with it? I know many people who have the ES330 specifically, three off of the top of my head and each is very successful in their own field. They simply wanted luxury + Honda/Toyota, and found that they preferred the Lexus.

Troll4Hire - Your comment may be right, but for these groups of buyers, they want the Honda/Toyota and we can't argue with that, it's their choice. They really don't care if it's a glorified/rebadged camry - they want something a bit nicer than what Toyota is offering and this could be a very easy choice for them.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I've driven the ES a few times as a loaner while my wife's 2006 Lexus IS250 was in for service. It's a comfortable car but the steering is overboosted and numb, definitely not a sporty car in any sense. The IS is much much more sporty (and RWD). You think outward vision is bad on the ES? Don't bother looking at the IS then, it's worse. Still, my wife has managed to put 10,000 miles on it since May without hitting anything yet so unless you really suck at driving I don't think you'd have a problem with the ES.

My wife's best friend has an ES and she loves it. She drives about 100 miles a day though and wanted something comfortable and reliable which the Lexus ES definitely is.

Me, I want a Lotus Elise. Probably one of the purest sports cars on the planet.

 

[Midlander]

Interesting. I looked at the ES330 and decided not to buy it for this exact reason--visibility was horrible. My wife said she felt like it was a cave. I'm not convinced it's that dark, but the placement of the windows leaves something to be desired. :beer:

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
on the other hand, the es350 is NICEEEE

wait, no, it was the 350.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: apex32
Keep in mind that the specific model is a rebadged camry. Don't expect it to be what it isn't.

Lexus = Toyota platform
Acura = Honda platform
Porsche = Shares some Volkswagen platforms/influence

And this can be said for the majority of car companies out there...what's the point? so long as the car itself is good...

Personally I have seen a few ES350s and they look really nice, better than much the germans are peddling these days.

 

[Troll4Hire]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I've driven the ES a few times as a loaner while my wife's 2006 Lexus IS250 was in for service. It's a comfortable car but the steering is overboosted and numb, definitely not a sporty car in any sense. The IS is much much more sporty (and RWD). You think outward vision is bad on the ES? Don't bother looking at the IS then, it's worse. Still, my wife has managed to put 10,000 miles on it since May without hitting anything yet so unless you really suck at driving I don't think you'd have a problem with the ES.

My wife's best friend has an ES and she loves it. She drives about 100 miles a day though and wanted something comfortable and reliable which the Lexus ES definitely is.

Me, I want a Lotus Elise. Probably one of the purest sports cars on the planet.

Ariel Atom is just a few percentage points purer than the Elise/Exige (same car) folowed by the Westfield XTR.

Order of Purity
1)http://www.brammo.com/ (300HP appx 1000-1100LBS)
2)http://www.westfieldxtr.com/ (My shoes weigh more but the XTR is much wider than my Custom Quad EEEE New Balance)
3)http://www.lotuscars.com/

Westfield and Lotus are a close call, but the XTR is ligher and lower with a better power to wight ratio.

 

[James3shin]

All consumer Lexus cars are posh, quiet and totally disconnected from the road. I don't think they are targeting low lap times, instead they are aiming for retired dollars

 

[Sukhoi]

Originally posted by: James3shin
All consumer Lexus cars are posh, quiet and totally disconnected from the road. I don't think they are targeting low lap times, instead they are aiming for retired dollars

Oh they're targeting low lap times now. :laugh:

 

[James3shin]

Originally posted by: Sukhoi

Originally posted by: James3shin
All consumer Lexus cars are posh, quiet and totally disconnected from the road. I don't think they are targeting low lap times, instead they are aiming for retired dollars

Oh they're targeting low lap times now. :laugh:

If you're referring to the LF-A or the IS-500, none are track proven. Just call it a hunch, but I think the RS-4 will stay on top of the E92 and IS-500 in terms of track performance.

 

[Sukhoi]

Originally posted by: James3shin

Originally posted by: Sukhoi

Originally posted by: James3shin
All consumer Lexus cars are posh, quiet and totally disconnected from the road. I don't think they are targeting low lap times, instead they are aiming for retired dollars

Oh they're targeting low lap times now. :laugh:

If you're referring to the LF-A or the IS-500, none are track proven. Just call it a hunch, but I think the RS-4 will stay on top of the E92 and IS-500 in terms of track performance.

IS-F, but yes. Any way you cut it that car is going to be way faster and perform better than any other Lexus around. The other thing I'm hoping is that it makes little sense for them to have a high priced performance car without anything in the affordable sector to get people into the brand family. So I sure hope something cheap comes out before my old Corolla dies.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: James3shin
All consumer Lexus cars are posh, quiet and totally disconnected from the road. I don't think they are targeting low lap times, instead they are aiming for retired dollars

right, they're sofas. but there are better sofas. ones without horrendous visibility.

 

[apex32]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: apex32
Keep in mind that the specific model is a rebadged camry. Don't expect it to be what it isn't.

Lexus = Toyota platform
Acura = Honda platform
Porsche = Shares some Volkswagen platforms/influence

And this can be said for the majority of car companies out there...what's the point? so long as the car itself is good...

Personally I have seen a few ES350s and they look really nice, better than much the germans are peddling these days.

The point is that the car is not based off it's own performance/luxury platform of any sort. It's off the camry, and thats why you shouldnt expect more out of it than it has to offer. You have 'seen' them, but it doesnt sound like you have been behind the wheel of any, if anything. So dont get on my back when i point out valid information. asshat.

 

[apex32]

Originally posted by: apex32

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: apex32
Keep in mind that the specific model is a rebadged camry. Don't expect it to be what it isn't.

Lexus = Toyota platform
Acura = Honda platform
Porsche = Shares some Volkswagen platforms/influence

And this can be said for the majority of car companies out there...what's the point? so long as the car itself is good...

Personally I have seen a few ES350s and they look really nice, better than much the germans are peddling these days.

The point is that the car is not based off it's own performance/luxury platform of any sort. It's off the camry, and thats why you shouldnt expect more out of it than it has to offer. You have 'seen' them, but it doesnt sound like you have been behind the wheel of any, if anything. So dont get on my back when i point out valid information. asshat.

They look nice... maybe, but i care about how the car drives, you dont sound like you care much about anything but looks, have fun with a marshmallow suspension.

Originally posted by: James3shin
All consumer Lexus cars are posh, quiet and totally disconnected from the road. I don't think they are targeting low lap times, instead they are aiming for retired dollars

Same with it's counterpart Camry. However they make it very comfortable inside with features attractive to retired persons, yes.

 

[Parasitic]

The Lexus ES350 isnt "based off the Camry"...it IS a Camry.

 

[apex32]

Originally posted by: Parasitic
The Lexus ES350 isnt "based off the Camry"...it IS a Camry.

Not quite exactly, but very much so. It has the extra luxurious factor added and thats about it.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: Parasitic
The Lexus ES350 isnt "based off the Camry"...it IS a Camry.

Are you implying that's a bad thing?

 

[redgtxdi]

Remember what Camry (myself) and ES shoppers are looking for.

Refined
Isolated from the road
Smooth
Quiet
etc. etc.


If you want road noise, tire noise, stiff suspension, etc. etc., then go buy a Civic!

 

[M2008S]

Originally posted by: Troll4Hire


ES330=Glorified Toyota Camry. You might be better off trying a Cadillac CTS, it's surprisingly good fun to drive; even that staunch brit Jeremy Clarkson enjoyed driving it.

i loveeeee cadillacs. 1966 coupe deville please.

 

[Parasitic]

Originally posted by: apex32
Not quite exactly, but very much so. It has the extra luxurious factor added and thats about it.

The ES at least used to sport a different exterior shell and looked different...and now they're virtually identical to the new Camry. Toyota has gotten lazy at hiding this.

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo

Originally posted by: Parasitic
The Lexus ES350 isnt "based off the Camry"...it IS a Camry.

Are you implying that's a bad thing?

Your take, really. Personally I believe ES buyers aren't terribly bright to have decided on a glorified Camry with an added premium of near 5 grand, especially now when they're essentially identical from inside out aside from the prettied up interior and leather.