The environuts are at it again

[daniel49]

Text

yawn:moon:


...Environmentalists warned that "flower miles" could have serious implications on climate change in terms of carbon dioxide emissions from aeroplanes.....

 

[sandorski]

They are correct.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

This message brought to you by the people who warned you that movie theater popcorn will KILL you. :thumbsup:

 

[imported_Shivetya]

ah, damn...


y'know I don't think that "I didn't send you flowers because it causes Global Warming" is going to work. I know that the Oyster Abuse line didn't work

 

[judasmachine]

the shipping industry is one of the largest contributors. the fact that we can have anything shipped from anywhere anytime, would be the first thing to go, when and if climate change gets as bad as predicted.


so in a round-a-bout way they are right.

 

[Genx87]

Repent sinners!

 

[Slick5150]

You know, rather than just calling them environuts, you might want to take the time to actually read and think about that article. I'm certainly not suggesting that local growing of flowers is going to solve all of the problems, but it does seem rather wasteful to import flowers all the way from Africa rather than growing them closer to home where they won't have to be shipped as far. But, as with most things, it all comes down to the mighty dollar for the most part.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Slick5150
You know, rather than just calling them environuts, you might want to take the time to actually read and think about that article. I'm certainly not suggesting that local growing of flowers is going to solve all of the problems, but it does seem rather wasteful to import flowers all the way from Africa rather than growing them closer to home where they won't have to be shipped as far. But, as with most things, it all comes down to the mighty dollar for the most part.

If it was wasteful to import they wouldnt do it.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Slick5150
You know, rather than just calling them environuts, you might want to take the time to actually read and think about that article. I'm certainly not suggesting that local growing of flowers is going to solve all of the problems, but it does seem rather wasteful to import flowers all the way from Africa rather than growing them closer to home where they won't have to be shipped as far. But, as with most things, it all comes down to the mighty dollar for the most part.

If it was wasteful to import they wouldnt do it.

You sure? OP's link explains the wastefulness quite clearly.

 

[palehorse]

This is excellent news! I finally have the ammunition I need to blame my wife for global warming! This is the ultimate trump-card! I'll never lose another argument! ever!!! wooohooooooo!

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Slick5150
You know, rather than just calling them environuts, you might want to take the time to actually read and think about that article. I'm certainly not suggesting that local growing of flowers is going to solve all of the problems, but it does seem rather wasteful to import flowers all the way from Africa rather than growing them closer to home where they won't have to be shipped as far. But, as with most things, it all comes down to the mighty dollar for the most part.

If it was wasteful to import they wouldnt do it.

You sure? OP's link explains the wastefulness quite clearly.

Yes, if they could buy the flowers cheaper here they would.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Slick5150
You know, rather than just calling them environuts, you might want to take the time to actually read and think about that article. I'm certainly not suggesting that local growing of flowers is going to solve all of the problems, but it does seem rather wasteful to import flowers all the way from Africa rather than growing them closer to home where they won't have to be shipped as far. But, as with most things, it all comes down to the mighty dollar for the most part.

If it was wasteful to import they wouldnt do it.

You sure? OP's link explains the wastefulness quite clearly.

Yes, if they could buy the flowers cheaper here they would.

Value is not solely determined by $$.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Slick5150
You know, rather than just calling them environuts, you might want to take the time to actually read and think about that article. I'm certainly not suggesting that local growing of flowers is going to solve all of the problems, but it does seem rather wasteful to import flowers all the way from Africa rather than growing them closer to home where they won't have to be shipped as far. But, as with most things, it all comes down to the mighty dollar for the most part.

If it was wasteful to import they wouldnt do it.

You sure? OP's link explains the wastefulness quite clearly.

Yes, if they could buy the flowers cheaper here they would.

Value is not solely determined by $$.

If you want to put an actual value on it yes, otherwise you delve into the realm of wishy washy emotions and biased opinion.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Slick5150
You know, rather than just calling them environuts, you might want to take the time to actually read and think about that article. I'm certainly not suggesting that local growing of flowers is going to solve all of the problems, but it does seem rather wasteful to import flowers all the way from Africa rather than growing them closer to home where they won't have to be shipped as far. But, as with most things, it all comes down to the mighty dollar for the most part.

If it was wasteful to import they wouldnt do it.

You sure? OP's link explains the wastefulness quite clearly.

Yes, if they could buy the flowers cheaper here they would.

Value is not solely determined by $$.

If you want to put an actual value on it yes, otherwise you delve into the realm of wishy washy emotions and biased opinion.

You have $X in hand, your Mom needs a life saving operation that costs equivalent to your $X(no Insurance, Mom is broke, only you have the $$). What do you Value most?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Slick5150
You know, rather than just calling them environuts, you might want to take the time to actually read and think about that article. I'm certainly not suggesting that local growing of flowers is going to solve all of the problems, but it does seem rather wasteful to import flowers all the way from Africa rather than growing them closer to home where they won't have to be shipped as far. But, as with most things, it all comes down to the mighty dollar for the most part.

If it was wasteful to import they wouldnt do it.

You sure? OP's link explains the wastefulness quite clearly.

Yes, if they could buy the flowers cheaper here they would.

Value is not solely determined by $$.

If you want to put an actual value on it yes, otherwise you delve into the realm of wishy washy emotions and biased opinion.

You have $X in hand, your Mom needs a life saving operation that costs equivalent to your $X(no Insurance, Mom is broke, only you have the $$). What do you Value most?

Wow, an outrageous situation as your basis of argument?

To answer your question. I value my mothers life more. However like I noted before that is because of emotion and bias. The guy down the street may not view it the same way.

But we can agree on one thing. The cost of the operation as a monetary figure.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Slick5150
You know, rather than just calling them environuts, you might want to take the time to actually read and think about that article. I'm certainly not suggesting that local growing of flowers is going to solve all of the problems, but it does seem rather wasteful to import flowers all the way from Africa rather than growing them closer to home where they won't have to be shipped as far. But, as with most things, it all comes down to the mighty dollar for the most part.

If it was wasteful to import they wouldnt do it.

You sure? OP's link explains the wastefulness quite clearly.

Yes, if they could buy the flowers cheaper here they would.

Value is not solely determined by $$.

If you want to put an actual value on it yes, otherwise you delve into the realm of wishy washy emotions and biased opinion.

You have $X in hand, your Mom needs a life saving operation that costs equivalent to your $X(no Insurance, Mom is broke, only you have the $$). What do you Value most?

Wow, an outrageous situation as your basis of argument?

To answer your question. I value my mothers life more. However like I noted before that is because of emotion and bias. The guy down the street may not view it the same way.

But we can agree on one thing. The cost of the operation as a monetary figure.

Value is not solely determined by $. It doesn't matter whether the guy down the street recognizes it or not either.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Slick5150
You know, rather than just calling them environuts, you might want to take the time to actually read and think about that article. I'm certainly not suggesting that local growing of flowers is going to solve all of the problems, but it does seem rather wasteful to import flowers all the way from Africa rather than growing them closer to home where they won't have to be shipped as far. But, as with most things, it all comes down to the mighty dollar for the most part.

If it was wasteful to import they wouldnt do it.

You sure? OP's link explains the wastefulness quite clearly.

Yes, if they could buy the flowers cheaper here they would.

Value is not solely determined by $$.

If you want to put an actual value on it yes, otherwise you delve into the realm of wishy washy emotions and biased opinion.

You have $X in hand, your Mom needs a life saving operation that costs equivalent to your $X(no Insurance, Mom is broke, only you have the $$). What do you Value most?

Wow, an outrageous situation as your basis of argument?

To answer your question. I value my mothers life more. However like I noted before that is because of emotion and bias. The guy down the street may not view it the same way.

But we can agree on one thing. The cost of the operation as a monetary figure.

Value is not solely determined by $. It doesn't matter whether the guy down the street recognizes it or not either.

Great, now go start a religion based on that and see how many followers you get to believe in it. The truth is not the truth, until people believe it is the truth. Perception is everything.

Once you?re capable of maintaining a working model of your dollar-less society in some small town, then perhaps you?ll be capable of exporting it to larger scenarios.

 

[Tom]

Genx87-

not quoting because it's a waste of space..

Your analysis of how pricing effects decision making is flawed, long term costs are often ignored in favor of short term gains. Additionally, there are often costs that accrue to one group, while the benefits accrue to another. The beneficiaries may make decisions that are harmful to some other group, but profitable to themselves, but the net effect on all groups can be negative.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Slick5150
You know, rather than just calling them environuts, you might want to take the time to actually read and think about that article. I'm certainly not suggesting that local growing of flowers is going to solve all of the problems, but it does seem rather wasteful to import flowers all the way from Africa rather than growing them closer to home where they won't have to be shipped as far. But, as with most things, it all comes down to the mighty dollar for the most part.

If it was wasteful to import they wouldnt do it.

You sure? OP's link explains the wastefulness quite clearly.

Yes, if they could buy the flowers cheaper here they would.

Value is not solely determined by $$.

If you want to put an actual value on it yes, otherwise you delve into the realm of wishy washy emotions and biased opinion.

You have $X in hand, your Mom needs a life saving operation that costs equivalent to your $X(no Insurance, Mom is broke, only you have the $$). What do you Value most?

Wow, an outrageous situation as your basis of argument?

To answer your question. I value my mothers life more. However like I noted before that is because of emotion and bias. The guy down the street may not view it the same way.

But we can agree on one thing. The cost of the operation as a monetary figure.

Value is not solely determined by $. It doesn't matter whether the guy down the street recognizes it or not either.

Great, now go start a religion based on that and see how many followers you get to believe in it. The truth is not the truth, until people believe it is the truth. Perception is everything.

Once you?re capable of maintaining a working model of your dollar-less society in some small town, then perhaps you?ll be capable of exporting it to larger scenarios.

Who said anything about a Dollar less society?

:roll:

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Slick5150
You know, rather than just calling them environuts, you might want to take the time to actually read and think about that article. I'm certainly not suggesting that local growing of flowers is going to solve all of the problems, but it does seem rather wasteful to import flowers all the way from Africa rather than growing them closer to home where they won't have to be shipped as far. But, as with most things, it all comes down to the mighty dollar for the most part.

If it was wasteful to import they wouldnt do it.

I have a hunch its creating as lot of important and needed jobs in Africa as well.

 

[Slick5150]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Slick5150
You know, rather than just calling them environuts, you might want to take the time to actually read and think about that article. I'm certainly not suggesting that local growing of flowers is going to solve all of the problems, but it does seem rather wasteful to import flowers all the way from Africa rather than growing them closer to home where they won't have to be shipped as far. But, as with most things, it all comes down to the mighty dollar for the most part.

If it was wasteful to import they wouldnt do it.

Waste, in environmental sense, is not determined by cost alone, but by the effect on the environment, which is the point of the argument being made in the OP's article. Its obviously cheaper for Walmart to make cheap crap in China and ship it here, but the overall effect on the environment of doing that is much worse than if they were to build the same item in Oklahoma.

The same holds true here. I'm sure it is cheaper for the florists in England to buy flowers from Africa, but there is a cost to the environment of shipping them all there that wouldn't have to be paid if they bought locally.

So again, their argument is valid, its just a question of where you put YOUR value. Is it strictly in dollars and cents, or do you look at the associated costs to the environment?

 

[Moonbeam]

People who feel like they are the worst in the world, everybody here, are not the kind of people who worry about the mileage on flowers or anything else really. Their concerns are only with keeping all memory of their past in regards to these feelings deeply repressed. Things like this, are labeled frivolous because, in comparison to other fears they are, and because any fear at all, any notion that one or one's actions might be responsible for even some tiny amount of negativity in the world must be powerfully crushed because any and really all feeling can awaken the sleeping truth. There is safety only in being a Zombie. And of course, the notion of Zombies has arisen from the fact that that is what we are.

To be alive is to feel. Please please don't make me feel.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
People who feel like they are the worst in the world, everybody here, are not the kind of people who worry about the mileage on flowers or anything else really. Their concerns are only with keeping all memory of their past in regards to these feelings deeply repressed. Things like this, are labeled frivolous because, in comparison to other fears they are, and because any fear at all, any notion that one or one's actions might be responsible for even some tiny amount of negativity in the world must be powerfully crushed because any and really all feeling can awaken the sleeping truth. There is safety only in being a Zombie. And of course, the notion of Zombies has arisen from the fact that that is what we are.

To be alive is to feel. Please please don't make me feel.

does it take a lot of practice to learn to talk that way? Let me try.

In the Great cosmic sink that is life. We are all insignificant droplets of water, that have endured an augurous journey through the Pvc portals.
Together we press against the oppressive washers that seek to restrain us in our conduits.
Valves of tyranny deny us what is our destiny, until at last we overcome and are deposited singularly into the wash basin in sheer ecstasy as we squeeze past the washer guardians.
Only to find that we are sucked down the drain of despair, only to begin our journey again.


Naw, I think your better at it. I would have to practice

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: Slick5150

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Slick5150
You know, rather than just calling them environuts, you might want to take the time to actually read and think about that article. I'm certainly not suggesting that local growing of flowers is going to solve all of the problems, but it does seem rather wasteful to import flowers all the way from Africa rather than growing them closer to home where they won't have to be shipped as far. But, as with most things, it all comes down to the mighty dollar for the most part.

If it was wasteful to import they wouldnt do it.

Waste, in environmental sense, is not determined by cost alone, but by the effect on the environment, which is the point of the argument being made in the OP's article. Its obviously cheaper for Walmart to make cheap crap in China and ship it here, but the overall effect on the environment of doing that is much worse than if they were to build the same item in Oklahoma.

The same holds true here. I'm sure it is cheaper for the florists in England to buy flowers from Africa, but there is a cost to the environment of shipping them all there that wouldn't have to be paid if they bought locally.

So again, their argument is valid, its just a question of where you put YOUR value. Is it strictly in dollars and cents, or do you look at the associated costs to the environment?

Why does everyone single out Wal-mart. All the big box stores import from over seas. Oh yeah, because they are not unionized. If they were I bet you a dollar you would not see complaints about where they buy their products.



Lets talk flowers.

Say we grow roses or whatnot locally. How much area would be consumed to support them in areas where growing conditions are not ideal? How much heating, cooling, water, and other, would have to be allocated? All that dollar cost adds up and that dollar costs have impact on the environment as well.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Tom
Genx87-

not quoting because it's a waste of space..

Your analysis of how pricing effects decision making is flawed, long term costs are often ignored in favor of short term gains. Additionally, there are often costs that accrue to one group, while the benefits accrue to another. The beneficiaries may make decisions that are harmful to some other group, but profitable to themselves, but the net effect on all groups can be negative.

So in other words hundreds of years of open markets have been wrong?

What you are delving into are the costs people put onto things that cant be nailed down. Like how much does it cost for a coal plant to spew Co2 into our atmosphere?
Ask one person he says 1 buck per pound. Another guy says 500 bucks. Who is right, who is wrong? Again that depends on who you ask.

I prefer thinking along the lines of something I can say, yes this costs 5 dollars. Not, well it may be 5 bucks if the sun shines today, but if I see a cloud I feel like it might cost 12 bucks.

And if you arent delving into that I apologize. But markets correct themselves when allowed to, they always do. If it is cheaper today to import from Africa but 5 years down the line the costs outweight the benefits of buying local they will change their buying pattern.