The end of the MazdaSpeed3 as we know it...

[exar333]

Sad if true. A 200hp 'high-revving' i4 sure pales in comparison to the current (and last-gen) MS3 turbo-4.

http://www.thetorquereport.com/2013/07/2014_mazda3_sedan_officially_u.html#more

Edit: Personal commentary - the only thing the MS3 lacked for me was that it wasn't RWD/AWD. Otherwise it was an AMAZING car for the price. The stock drivetrain handled more power via ECU tune and stock transmission was awesome.

 

[gorb]

boo

 

[hotlavaaaa]

If it isn't going to be turbocharged, then why not use the 2.5L engine that already makes almost 200 hp and has much more torque than the 2.0L?

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Sounds like they're turning it into a Civic Si hatch unless they go for the sedan styling as well then they'll really have an Si on their hands.

Can't have that, it's not a speed3 if it isn't a little bonkers

 

[Vic Vega]

What's with the enormous overhang?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I find it hard to believe they would choose to use that name and rob it of that much power. Going to an NA engine also seems to make little sense in an era when even BMW is making almost no NA cars.

 

[NutBucket]

My guess is the economics didn't make sense. At least before the Speed3 shared an engine with the CX-7 and Speed6. Now it would be a low-volume single-car engine. My guess would be the 200hp 4 makes it into the Miata too.

 

[ballmode]

Isn't the new Miata due out for 2015?

 

[who?]

Are they using engines that will get better gas mileage to help them meet the federal standards?

 

[Hellotalkie]

Everyone is always surprised how cheap my speed3 was, with the amount of power and refinement in the car. For a car sub 22k, you get a lot.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Everyone is always surprised how cheap my speed3 was, with the amount of power and refinement in the car. For a car sub 22k, you get a lot.

Agreed. MSRP is like 24.2k but you can get it out the door for about that much which puts them at like 21.5k/22k (in socal). That is markedly less than the others in the category.

 

[A5]

Maybe the new engines can't take a turbo that well? Seems odd to drop 60 HP in the new version from a product-planning standpoint.

 

[exar333]

Maybe the new engines can't take a turbo that well? Seems odd to drop 60 HP in the new version from a product-planning standpoint.

Agree. It's probably all for the MPGs, sadly. Mazda has been trying to streamline their engine/platform offerings to control costs, and this is probably one casualty. I agree with others that it's not really a 'MS3' if this is true.

Trying to emulate the Civic Si is bonkers to me. That's a class below the current MS3 in almost every way.

 

[Riverhound777]

I can't imagine this is true. They wouldn't concede to Ford or Subaru or VW like that. Especially with all the new Ecoboost type engines coming out that have power and good mileage.

 

[hans007]

i just can't see this being true.

my random speculation is that they will make a 2.0 250ish hp turbo just like bmw, vw, hyundai, gm, ford, etc.

they can put it in the cx-5 , mazda 6, speed 3, etc sort of like what ford does with their 2.0t in the focus st, fusion 2.0 , explorer / edge, etc. if they can put it in enough models it will spread the cost well enough.


also given how retarded the way the EPA counts mpg is, a high revving 2.0 NA engine (you'd have to figure this thing would have to rev up to 8000 rpm or something to get 220hp to have much more than the normal 2.5) would probably get worse EPA numbers than a 2.0 turbo if geared correctly to game that. yet another reason to go turbo.

 

[JCH13]

:'(

If they can keep the weight under 2500lbs it'd be there... but that's a lot less weight...

I will be a little disappoint if the new one doesn't get a turbo, but I can understand it.

For the power/fuel economy it was nipping at the heels of the WRX/STI/EVO and other very powerful cars while destroying it's contemporaries like the GTI, Si, etc. It was in a no-mans land where most people wouldn't want it. Enthusiasts generally wanted rwd/awd, and people more economically minded preferred better fuel economy. Only weirdos like me bought them.

It had a unique mixture of features and specs that I don't think any other car in the market had, or has. It was niche and I can see why they're doing this... as sad as it makes me...

 

[SearchMaster]

:'(

If they can keep the weight under 2500lbs it'd be there... but that's a lot less weight...

Considering the Miata is >3000 pounds and the current MS3 is >3200, this would truly be an incredible feat of engineering.

I'd read this rumor on a Focus ST site a couple of weeks ago and I still don't buy it. It just makes no sense. Call it the Mazda 3 GT but don't sully the "Speed" name with this nonsense, if true.


[edit] Doh! Saw a gross weight, not curb weight, rating on the Miata. It's right at 2500 pounds, still a virtually impossible target unless they use very expensive materials.[/edit]

 

[_Rick_]

It would be awesome if it would get a 200HP N/A engine. A proper replacement for the RS Clio, that just went with a 1.6 turbo instead.

....which is why it probably won't happen. Nobody develops N/A engines anymore these days. If they manage to keep weight below 1,200 kg and develop a proper suspension setup, while matching the price of the euro small hot hatches (Clio, 208, Fiesta) then it may be an option.
If the price is more Golf, Megane, Focus, it's not going to work.

Maybe they really want to revive the Civic Type R, after that faltered and died so badly...

Also, apparently the same source said, that a hot diesel version might appear, accelerating with similar performance as the 2.3T current model.

Still, all this leaves me a bit incongruous.

 

[Aharami]

doesn't seem to be definite yet. hope this isn't true. I want to make a mazdaspeed 6 or 3 my next car

 

[hans007]

Considering the Miata is >3000 pounds and the current MS3 is >3200, this would truly be an incredible feat of engineering.

I'd read this rumor on a Focus ST site a couple of weeks ago and I still don't buy it. It just makes no sense. Call it the Mazda 3 GT but don't sully the "Speed" name with this nonsense, if true.


[edit] Doh! Saw a gross weight, not curb weight, rating on the Miata. It's right at 2500 pounds, still a virtually impossible target unless they use very expensive materials.[/edit]

i can't see them getting it under 2500 for a mazda 3 based hatch, but theres always the mazda 2 which weighs barely over 2300 . a mazdaspeed 2 i think would be a great fiesta ST competitor.

 

[JCH13]

Considering the Miata is >3000 pounds and the current MS3 is >3200, this would truly be an incredible feat of engineering.

I'd read this rumor on a Focus ST site a couple of weeks ago and I still don't buy it. It just makes no sense. Call it the Mazda 3 GT but don't sully the "Speed" name with this nonsense, if true.


[edit] Doh! Saw a gross weight, not curb weight, rating on the Miata. It's right at 2500 pounds, still a virtually impossible target unless they use very expensive materials.[/edit]

Ha! Ninja edit...

It would be quite impressive. Not impossible though, especially with how much lighter the engine will be and Mazdas use of high-strength steels (nothing exotic).

The new Miata's target weight is 2350lbs (ambitious) and with 200hp it'd get up and go pretty well...

 

[exar333]

It would be awesome if it would get a 200HP N/A engine. A proper replacement for the RS Clio, that just went with a 1.6 turbo instead.

....which is why it probably won't happen. Nobody develops N/A engines anymore these days. If they manage to keep weight below 1,200 kg and develop a proper suspension setup, while matching the price of the euro small hot hatches (Clio, 208, Fiesta) then it may be an option.
If the price is more Golf, Megane, Focus, it's not going to work.

Maybe they really want to revive the Civic Type R, after that faltered and died so badly...

Also, apparently the same source said, that a hot diesel version might appear, accelerating with similar performance as the 2.3T current model.

Still, all this leaves me a bit incongruous.

N/A engines are the whole new line of engines from Mazda (branded Skyactive).

Sorry, but you obviously don't follow cars much...

 

[Vdubchaos]

From Mazda perspective this car was a failure, from consumer it's success.

And that's why Sales #s don't mean shit or define a great car (or product).

 

[Topweasel]

N/A engines are the whole new line of engines from Mazda (branded Skyactive).

Sorry, but you obviously don't follow cars much...

He is saying no one meaning everybody but Mazda and that should be fairly obvious from his post. Why is Mazda dumping turbo engines, specially the enthusiast ones, when just about everyone else is moving to FI across almost their whole lines?

 

[JCH13]

He is saying no one meaning everybody but Mazda and that should be fairly obvious from his post. Why is Mazda dumping turbo engines, specially the enthusiast ones, when just about everyone else is moving to FI across almost their whole lines?

They're all just ways to up the compression ratio of the engine (effectively) which increases efficiency.