The End of Libraries?

[Baptismbyfire]

Do you think the day will come when libraries will be shut down because borrowing books is deemed an infringement of intellectual property laws?

The thought never entered my mind, till I saw what's going on in Congress nowadays with the massive lobbying to control all forms of media and companies patenting all sort of crap. and saying it's their intellectual property.

Even though it's not intellectual property related, we're already witnessing libraries having their funding cut and books, especially scholarly books, becoming too expensive for libraries to afford. Couple this with fewer people reading books, I don't think the future is too bright for libraries.

 

[cybrsage]

The IP laws have exceptions in them for libraries. Same with copyright laws.

The death of libraries will come as less people use physical books. The idea of the library will continue, but the physical place will go away. My library system already loans Kindle books via Amazon.

 

[us3rnotfound]

It's ironic how the establishment of the library, which is where most will argue knowledge is harvested at, will become less and less in society.

That is, the B&M library. Thought-provoking.

 

[PeshakJang]

With Democrats claiming more and more that access to high-speed internet is a basic human right which must be subsidized or provided free of cost to all, why would we need libraries anymore?

 

[Baptismbyfire]

With Democrats claiming more and more that access to high-speed internet is a basic human right which must be subsidized or provided free of cost to all, why would we need libraries anymore?

Isn't that line of argument losing ground rapidly recently? And I think Democrats and Republicans are alike in that they wouldn't be willing to go against the media lobbyists and risk losing the next election just to do what is good for the public.

Anyway, even if what you said were true, you cannot compare the quality of information available online with what you can find in books.

Also, when it comes to control, Internet or information in the digital format is much easier to control than data recorded in physical medium (such as books) in my opinion. Sure, information is spread much quickly online, but if few media conglomerates were to get together, or if the government cooked up some threat to scare the public, I think it would be much easier than going through every home looking for banned books.

The IP laws have exceptions in them for libraries. Same with copyright laws.

The death of libraries will come as less people use physical books. The idea of the library will continue, but the physical place will go away. My library system already loans Kindle books via Amazon.

But laws are meant to be changed, right? And given the lack of interest in reading, do you think people will rise up in arms if the law was amended, especially with little coverage by the press?

 

[Thump553]

Highly doubtful. Free libraries were a community staple in New England years before the Revolution occured, and well before any copywrit laws came into being.

Also librarians tend to be quite protective of library rights. Three librarians in my state took the feds to court about the post 9/11 security laws permitting federal warrantless seizure of what materials you have borrowed, etc.-where the librarians were barred by law from even telling you about it.

Libraries will continue to evolve as time goes on. My local, very small town library allows us to borrow from any other public library in the state (including being able to reserve materials and have it transferred to the local library), CDs, DVD, audiobooks, ebooks, all kinds of online content like the NYT, Morningstar, etc., and recently we can even take online courses for free through the library.

And all of that in an average income suburb of less than 10,000 people.

If you are interested in supporting this invaluable resource I strong urge you join you libraries friends society, or work on the board. I've done both.

 

[wirednuts]

i know people who still use libraries. if the library changes with the times, like ours have, then they can still be an excellent way to access information. whats sad is you simply dont NEED them anymore. just like newspapers- yeah theyre great, and traditional... makes your heart warm n fuzzy...but do you need it? not at all.

which means libraries today get reduced to low-income and poor people for customers. sad, but its reality

 

[Modelworks]

The problem with libraries is the cost to fill them with books. Have you seen the cost of some books lately ? $30-$50 ? Then you have the people that never return books, or damage them, write in them, etc. What would be a better alternative in the future if tablets become mainstream is for kiosk to be put where libraries are now. Walk up to it, download the books you want and walk away.

 

[Baptismbyfire]

What kind of work did you do Thump? And in terms of funding, how much does the library depend on taxes? Do individuals make a fair amount of donations?

Despite the constant updates to the library system, such as the online programs and E-Books, do you think libraries are low on fund in general?

 

[Schadenfroh]

After my grandmother retired, she worked / volunteered as a librarian. She said people there did not read books. Some checked out DvDs, but the majority just used the public PCs they provided. They had problems with people just surfing pornography, some of them homeless. She quit after it started getting a little dangerous as the same people would just stay in there from open till close surfing porn and they (being elderly ladies) were to afraid to tell them to free the PCs up and they did not have security.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Many distributed locations filled with hard to search, hard to use, expensive to obtain and maintain, out-dated knowledge... Yep that's a sustainable model, especially when optimal technology allows a centralized, instant search, instant use, much-less expensive to obtain and maintain instantly updated knowledge.

 

[Braznor]

Society will always need libraries because there is nothing like burning a library down to make sure everyone gets the message that you are serious about enforcing thought control.

 

[woolfe9999]

I hope not. We watch most of our TV by checking out seasons of various shows from the library. It only costs us 75 cents to rent a season, and we get it for 2 weeks. If I wanted to get that online, I'd have to pay a lot more, or else pirate it. Not having the library option would encourage more online piracy of a variety of different media, including, in some cases, books.

 

[Genx87]

I think our useage patterns will eventually dictate libraries go from housing physical books to being a computer centers with online books.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

As with everything, yes and no. Libraries are going through so much shit right now anyway...

The real issue is licensing. With printed books you always know what your rights are and those rights are perpetual. For instance, I can buy a book for my library and know that I will always have it and can always make copies of sections as needed. With electronic books I have to worry about a ridiculous number of variables:
* How long is the license for
* Will that website it is hosted on always exist
* What software will access the e-book, and will newer version of the software continue to support it
* Is the license per use, per seat, based on organization size, etc

The policy for my library is that we do not purchase electronic books and all journals we purchase must also come with a printed copy.

<---Librarian for about four years now, manage one branch and also systems admin for our group

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

With Democrats claiming more and more that access to high-speed internet is a basic human right which must be subsidized or provided free of cost to all, why would we need libraries anymore?

If you are dumb enough to have to ask that question then nothing that can be said will change your outlook. I will say that my organization has actually been hiring MORE staff and opening MORE branches in the last couple of years.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Many distributed locations filled with hard to search, hard to use, expensive to obtain and maintain, out-dated knowledge... Yep that's a sustainable model, especially when optimal technology allows a centralized, instant search, instant use, much-less expensive to obtain and maintain instantly updated knowledge.

You are missing the key points:
* The information is not always out-dated even if YOU think it is. I have books that are 150 years old in my library that are MORE useful than books that came out last week. Different users have different needs. The average person looking for a book on a programming language would find a 20 year old book useless. One of my users asks for a 20 year old book because he needs to figure out how an application was designed.
* Books in most subject areas are not particularly expensive. It is only when you start looking at science and technology books that they get expensive.
* The optimal technology that allows a centralized instant search that is effective does not exist. PS, where do you think the metadata for those systems would come from?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

As with everything, yes and no. Libraries are going through so much shit right now anyway...

The real issue is licensing. With printed books you always know what your rights are and those rights are perpetual. For instance, I can buy a book for my library and know that I will always have it and can always make copies of sections as needed. With electronic books I have to worry about a ridiculous number of variables:
* How long is the license for
* Will that website it is hosted on always exist
* What software will access the e-book, and will newer version of the software continue to support it
* Is the license per use, per seat, based on organization size, etc

The policy for my library is that we do not purchase electronic books and all journals we purchase must also come with a printed copy.

<---Librarian for about four years now, manage one branch and also systems admin for our group

I don't want physical journal articles; they are inconvenient to search, copy, use, cite. I'm so much more upset when my university has a journal but it's in print than when it doesn't have it. Not having it means I can get a digital ILL, having it in print but not digital means I'm wasting a 1/2 hour of my life doing what I can do online in less than 1 min.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Do you think the day will come when libraries will be shut down because borrowing books is deemed an infringement of intellectual property laws?

The thought never entered my mind, till I saw what's going on in Congress nowadays with the massive lobbying to control all forms of media and companies patenting all sort of crap. and saying it's their intellectual property.

Even though it's not intellectual property related, we're already witnessing libraries having their funding cut and books, especially scholarly books, becoming too expensive for libraries to afford. Couple this with fewer people reading books, I don't think the future is too bright for libraries.

I can one day foresee when your standard brick and mortar neighborhood libraries will be closed down to so that only a few main branches are around in major cities.

This is because one day it'll be easier and less costly for both the government and the borrower (taxpayer) to gain/allow access to online digital books, magazines, etc from a public repository accessed via a website and any portable(or stationary) tablet like device, etc then it would be to travel down to a library and physically borrow a book and have to then return it.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

I don't want physical journal articles; they are inconvenient to search, copy, use, cite. I'm so much more upset when my university has a journal but it's in print than when it doesn't have it. Not having it means I can get a digital ILL, having it in print but not digital means I'm wasting a 1/2 hour of my life doing what I can do online in less than 1 min.

You can have electronic access to most (not all journals are available electronically) journals, but you will pay a huge cost for it. You essentially have to keep paying for access every year, and once you stop paying you lose access. There are exceptions and workarounds, but they come with their own costs as well.

Just because *you* want access to everything electronically does not mean that it is in the best interests of the library to provide it.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

You can have electronic access to most (not all journals are available electronically) journals, but you will pay a huge cost for it. You essentially have to keep paying for access every year, and once you stop paying you lose access. There are exceptions and workarounds, but they come with their own costs as well.

Just because *you* want access to everything electronically does not mean that it is in the best interests of the library to provide it.

Right... that's the point. it ISN'T in the best interest of the library because the library is a dinosaur living on borrowed time. It's in my (the individual user's) best interest, its in the IP creators best interest and its in society's best interest. The current manifestation of the library is an institution who's interests are no-longer aligned with those it purports to serve.

 

[Thump553]

What kind of work did you do Thump? And in terms of funding, how much does the library depend on taxes? Do individuals make a fair amount of donations?

Despite the constant updates to the library system, such as the online programs and E-Books, do you think libraries are low on fund in general?

I was on the board of directors and the treasurer for about five years.

Roughly speaking the town kicks in about $200,000 per year towards the library (including salaries, building maintainence, pensions, etc., the whole works). Probably less than we kick in for little league and soccer, and a very tiny fraction of what we pay for schools (I bet way less than 1%).

I bet if you checked out your local libraries circulation stats, you'd be amazed. I know our library is very popular. My job tends to take me to town halls around the state, if I have time I often stop in at the library (unless close by) and nearly all are pretty busy.

 

[waggy]

I doubt it. about 80&#37; of the books i read are from the library. we go every 2 weeks to get books (reading the sword of truth series by terry goodkind now). my kids love getting books to read. my 5 yr old is just learning so he is loving it.

but i do see what people are saying. the library is always packed. EVERY internet able computer is used. A lot of old people sitting reading the paper etc.

there is also always people getting books though.

 

[janas19]

... and now, for this:

I walked the corner to the rubble that used to be a library, line up to the mind-cemetary now...

Carry on.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Right... that's the point. it ISN'T in the best interest of the library because the library is a dinosaur living on borrowed time. It's in my (the individual user's) best interest, its in the IP creators best interest and its in society's best interest. The current manifestation of the library is an institution who's interests are no-longer aligned with those it purports to serve.

It isn't that the interests of the library are no longer aligned, it is that they are not capable of providing everything you could ever want on a silver platter while costing you nothing. If we ever go to a worldwide model of all open-access content as well as developing systems for locating content then you can consider the libraries outdated. Until then...